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Lynch hadn't read the book before taking the job, would have been hard for him to write the film without at least taking a glance
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Nov 14, 2021 20:49
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It’s not that there was a Lynch cut of the film and Universal butchered it- it’s that from the start he was pressured to make compromises and do things the studio wanted, and he never really had control, so it’s hard to say what a Lynch version would have been like. The script is a clue but we’ll never really know and he has no interest in revisiting what for him was a negative experience. The TV cut has extra stuff which is neat but it’s horribly assembled, it’s a real lesson in the power of editing. The theatrical cut has its awkward jumps but still has a better rhythm. I still love it, it’s a rare case of space opera as visual art and no other film in the genre has quite the same majesty. It’s a fractured glimpse into another world.
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Nov 15, 2021 02:35
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I'm willing to believe Villeneue when he says there's no extended cut but at least give us a BR/UHD/etc. with all the deleted scenes. I'm sure they were cut for a very good reason but gimme.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:21
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Yeah the film does leave out all the "kanly" stuff, which is the formal declarations of feud and vendetta that Houses have to make when warring, and there are rules attached like not being able to use atomics, etc. A bit like casus belli in ye olden times. The movie instead largely emphasizes the Harkonnens being angry over/wanting to take back Arrakis so they can keep making money. (Which is a decent enough way of simplifying things.) In any case, at the time Chapter One ends, all this has just happened. The Landsraad doesn't even know yet and there's no indication that they'll ever know the full story. Chapter Two will have to have some acknowledgement of the larger political picture but it's not clear how they'll handle it.
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Nov 23, 2021 18:14
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CK generally comes close because much of Dune is based around the idea that there are specific things limiting your actions in war, some of which are technological (you can’t quickly move all your forces to where they need to be) and some are political (there will always be someone who limits your ability to act- the Guild, the Pope, etc.) Even as the book ends with the Emperor’s overthrow and a massive universe-wide crusade, some semblances of the old order remain in the sequels. It’s never “there are no rules”.
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Nov 25, 2021 23:29
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Heat is a concern on Arrakis but it isn't the main one- the main concern is just, there's not very much water. That's the defining feature of a desert anyway, they can be hot or cold or temperate (though they rarely are since the lack of moisture leads to extremes), but they're always dry. Like I don't think making everyone sweat more would have conveyed the setting better, the aesthetic the filmmakers are going for is focused more on the bleached lifelessness of the place in contrast to Caladan where there's moisture everywhere.
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Dec 1, 2021 21:03
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Adhesion posted:This but (mostly) unironically. Dialogue intelligibility is a pretty big problem in movies nowadays, and there are a lot of factors that go into why, but it really doesn't make sense to tailor your audio mix for the theater and the theater only when so many people are watching at home. https://www.slashfilm.com/673162/he...e=pocket-newtab Yeah, the Car Stereo Test needs to be a thing for film audio as well. (Also some equivalent for visuals in film/TV so nothing like the Battle of Winterfell is ever allowed to happen again.) It's good when people can see and hear things unless you really need to obscure something.
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Dec 6, 2021 10:44
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I think this is where the balance of power comes into play. There are basically three major power groups in the Imperium- the Landsraad, the Spacing Guild, and CHOAM which is basically the mercantile class. None of them would accept the Emperor- or really anyone- having sole power over spice production/distribution. You delegate it to one house and make it clear that the obligation is *on* them to deliver spice and that can be revoked, you ensure a consistent flow- nobody can throttle the line, until (part 2 spoilers obv) Paul decides to cause problems on purpose. The Emperor is not all-powerful, if he tried to directly control the spice and Arrakis he'd have a revolt on his hands. His whole reason for helping the Baron is that he sees Leto as a threat.
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Dec 13, 2021 18:47
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The key thing about the Imperium is that it's very unstable. It depends entirely on the extraction and distribution of Spice, from the nobles using it to live long to the people using it to expand their mind powers to the Guild using it so that hyperspace travel can exist. There's sort of a sense that something had to give eventually, but at the same time nobody wanted to disturb the order of things because they have too much to lose. (Though the Atreides were slowly building support and influence that could have been used against the Emperor- and so, ironically, the Emperor trying to squelch that is what sets this whole chain of events in motion.)
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Jan 5, 2022 10:12
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Duncan is the cool dude hero friend Gurney is the old grizzled ugly bastard sneering at the kids these days It's a fine distinction but they're both basically two kinds of uncle
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Jun 1, 2022 19:48
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Guild Representative pls
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Jan 7, 2023 04:34
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They don't have an army to suppress the Fremen and they don't want to bother with all the infrastructure of mining, refining, avoiding sandworms, etc.
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Jun 14, 2023 10:01
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While there’s some eugenics coming on (the Bene Gesserit manipulating bloodlines) a lot of it is more just “realizing human potential.” Developing new ways of fighting, speaking in a way that compels people to obey, etc.
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Jul 1, 2023 03:10
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They need to get at least as far as Children of Dune. I want to see how they visualize the whole business with the sandtrouts.
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Jul 3, 2023 09:35
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Advertising in general is about brand awareness. You make people aware that thing exists and is an option they can choose (and this is especially important for something like a movie that's expected to make almost all its revenue in a short period following release.) People need to know that Dune 2 is coming out, they can't not know, and you use every channel you can.
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Jul 23, 2023 19:14
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Apparently a bunch of theaters are showing Lynch's Dune this month yeah Finally getting to see that on the big screen will be a pip
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Feb 9, 2024 03:24
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deoju posted:I saw the Lynch Dune in a theater yesterday. It was better than I remember it. There were times where I felt like they were over explaining things, just repeating exposition that the audience already had. But maybe that is just my perception as someone familiar with the story and the fact that the film came out 40 years ago. There was absolutely pressure from the studio to explain as much as possible- like according to Lynch they were pushing a lot of the inner-voice dubbing to make sure certain points got across, and at some theaters they handed out a little pamphlet explaining some of the details like what the Landsraad was and all. Though at the same time they were the ones who wanted to make sure the film wasn't too long so individual scenes really just whiz by.
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Feb 20, 2024 04:55
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Was that kind of thing common in old sci-fi movies? Feels like Star Wars might have been a big trend breaker in that way as well, despite the iconic opening crawl it mostly dives straight into the action and lets the audience catch up through context and themes with minimal proper exposition. I think it was a unique issue with Dune being as... complex as it is. Like most sci-fi movies before then had a point of reference of "like now, but in The Future!" Something like Metropolis might need a few scenes to establish its setting, but a lot of films just needed a scene or two of a scientist type explaining things. 2001, as heady as it gets sometimes, quickly establishes in the Blue Danube sequence that we're out in space now but civilization hasn't changed much. And Star Wars took place in another galaxy but it was a simple fairy tale with a backdrop of "Evil Empire, good Rebels." I think studios were trying to figure out just how weird you could get and just how you could explain a whole new setting to people, and here you had a movie that needs maybe more than three paragraphs of setup. Of course, one of the things I love about the Lynch movie is just how alien its world feels, and how it does sorta feel like you're getting just a glimpse of what's there. Herbert's novel is written in a way that sort of emphasizes how all these millennia of technological and mental progress have changed humanity, while still being subject to the same patterns of greed, exploitation, etc. It's rare for a sci-fi movie to convey a truly different world because having some frame of reference for the viewer is such an advantage. If the audience gets that Luke Skywalker is just a common farmboy, that the Enterprise is kinda like a navy ship, etc., they're more likely to go along with things. It's harder to explain what a Landsraad is. Villeneuve's version is more "relatable" in some ways- the characters act more naturally, or at least there are more little moments to establish things ("Use the Voice")- and it's quite clever in how it condenses the story without compromising anything too important. Like we don't strictly need to know that the Duke and the Baron have an existing rivalry, it's enough to know the Baron's pissed because he wants to make money off Arrakis. But I think it also benefits from nearly forty years in between of audiences getting exposed to gradually more elaborate sci-fi and fantasy; if you saw any of Game of Thrones you get the idea of noble houses fighting for power.
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Feb 20, 2024 10:06
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Excalibur is weird but had the advantage of people having base familiarity with King Arthur and all that. It’s not a completely new fantasy world. (Also it’s not like Excalibur had been a huge movie- it seems to have been profitable but that’s because it cost only 10 million.)
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Feb 20, 2024 19:52
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YggdrasilTM posted:So it's not "in the '70 most of the medieval movies were King Arthur or Robin Hood merry jaunts with knights and damsels still played somewhat unironically and associated black and white morality", It's "in the '70 most of the top of the charts blockbuster fantasy movies were merry jaunts with knights and damsels still played somewhat unironically and associated black and white morality"? In the 70s most of the top of the charts blockbuster movies weren't fantasies. So what fantasy movies you got ranged from fairly black and white stuff (the Ray Harryhausen Sinbad sequels, which did well but were still "B" pictures) to weirder things like Bakshi's Wizards. Star Wars really did mark a shift towards sci-fi and fantasy becoming "A" genres and box office leaders in a way they hadn't been before. And again I think it's less the moral complexity of something like Dune and more the sheer conceptual complexity. Dune is a story about the machinations and political games of nobility, an economy dependent on a magical drug that makes interstellar navigation possible, the manipulation of prophecy, eugenics, also giant worms everywhere. It's like Lord of the Rings but even harder to explain in a logline. (And it's worth noting that around the time Lynch's Dune flopped, big genre movies shifted more towards ones that were set in "the real world" with one or more sci-fi/fantasy elements, after the example set by E.T.)
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Feb 20, 2024 21:52
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The trailers do at least make it look like they're gonna delve some into "Being the one may not be a good thing at all."
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Feb 21, 2024 02:11
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Jewmanji posted:Indeed, who in their right mind would accept tons of money for a few days work? I'm not sure about the filming schedule for Part One since there were all the COVID delays (like it was basically done by 2020 right?) but she was probably pretty busy around that time, a few scenes as Chani was probably all she had time for.
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Feb 24, 2024 22:39
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I liked this better than the first. It feels like after the success of the first movie, and getting a lot of the exposition out of the way, Villeneuve was free to start digging into the weirdness of the world a little more. Not that there wasn't weirdness last time but this just had stronger vibes. As far as the story goes, there are certainly some big choices made, and the only one I'm really against is leaving out Alia- that felt more like sanding off some of the stranger parts. And yeah Jessica is maybe a bit too villain-coded, she loses some development though Ferguson is as good as ever. (Among other things left out is Gurney thinking she was the traitor and trying to kill her, which- yeah it's not strictly necessary for the film but would've given her a bit more vulnerability/humanity.) But yeah it's a gorgeous and engaging work that manages to dig into the tricky themes of the source material. And I honestly love how much of a freakin' weirdo Javier Bardem's Stilgar is. Also felt like Zimmer's score contained more than one nod to Toto, which was nice. (Paul and Chani's love theme felt a little like the original, and you get some of the guitar hits in Feyd Rautha's scenes.)
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Mar 6, 2024 08:26
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Bugblatter posted:Whenever the game is using designs from the movie it looks really nice. But all of the original vehicles and costumes look like they're from Destiny... The first PC Dune game, the one that's part adventure/part RTS, is weird for this, like they used likenesses from the Lynch movie for some characters (most notably Paul and Jessica, Feyd Rautha too IIRC) but not others.
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Mar 6, 2024 08:27
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Famethrowa posted:it's fine tbh. the only thing that jarred me out of the flow of movie watching was the random ornithopter flying in literal seconds after everyone else took an epicly long worm subway trip. it did not need the complication of the navigator's guild. it's ok for the Harkonnens to look incompetent and arrogant because they were established to be so the entire movie. Honestly I just think everyone who engages with Dune should know that a key part of the setting is that space travel is done by a group of mutant fish people
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Mar 6, 2024 21:02
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Yeah honestly before this film I never fully appreciated just how much the planet’s geography is divided into the colonized north and the ????? south. The board game has a similar radial top-down view with the polar sink at the center.
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Mar 9, 2024 04:17
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Just watched and although I enjoyed it, I don't think it's as solid a film as part one. The pacing seemed inconsistent and in my humble opinion, there was too much time used on the religious themes and not enough on the characters. I think Lady Jessica in particular became pretty one dimensional within like 30 minutes of the film and spent the rest of her screen time walking around being creepy to everyone. Her relationship with Paul was central to the first film but in this one, they barely speak and when they do there's no affection at all in the exchanges, which felt weird. I get that there's distance between them now, but they are still one another's greatest ally and it seemed like Paul actually hated her in part 2. Also the "Chani is the only Fremen out of millions who disagrees with Paul" just fell flat for me. She's the only skeptic on the whole planet? There's the friend she talks to a lot but I don't recall her getting a name. And I do think yeah, the biggest problem of the rewriting Alia thing is you end up with Jessica being kinda shortchanged. I think Villeneuve also wanted to very plainly spell out "Guys this is bad, this is going to result in bad poo poo happening" so nobody gets TOO shocked by part 3 (and in the event he didn't get to make Part 3, but that's almost certainly happening.)
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Mar 9, 2024 09:37
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