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Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



axelord posted:

Man I really liked it. Bombastic, visuals were great. Kinda wish it was a TV show or mini series. It was great setup but that's it.

If next week I was going to watch the next episode it would be great. Feels like I watched the least interesting part of the story and I worry that's going to hurt it with audiences.

And hurt the chances of the next one being made.

Very similar. It has some flaws, but they’re all pretty much all caused by the basic idea of taking a super detailed and decently long book and turning it into a movie. The only ways to avoid those “flaws” would mess something else, or you’d just have to never even do it at.

Like the pacing was a bit on the slower side and they had to drop a bunch of little details that I liked in the book. But movies have a much more limited cap than books, because a movie can only be as long as you’re willing to do in one sitting. But if they sped up the pacing to cover more ground, it’d have a frenetic tone that really would fight the material. I like that it kept a slow build to sudden falls kind of rhythm and thought it really worked. So stuff had to be dropped and they did a drat fine job of picking and choosing what stayed and what went.

The one thing I’m actually curious and I swear not critical about : how salient were the shields to someone who hasn’t read the books? Like obviously they’re not gonna get the intricacies, but I don’t know if someone else would’ve gotten more than, “when they fight air go glowy and vrooom but sometimes red glowy and die.” Again not a criticism since I certainly don’t think something clearer like narration would’ve been any better and I thought they did well, but I want to sit someone down and hear what they thought was going on.

It’s a really cool detail, and they tried super hard to show it without explaining it, and I want to know how well they did.

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Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Rabelais D posted:

If Paul isn't magic how can he, a scrawny kid with no real life fighting experience, overcome a seasoned veteran at the end?

Because he's a super comically rich kid who has been trained his entire life by immense badasses?

It's even directly in the movie. When he's fighting Jamis, he keeps winning in the sense of he could've killed him but he's never killed anyone so he can't bring himself to actually stab him. Because he's specifically only ever done practice sessions, even if he's done them 4 hours a day for 20 years or whatever, so he can perform all the correct counters but hesitates. Made up number on the amount of training because it's not stated, but it's clearly something absurd since he's been taking private knife fighting lessons from a dude so badass people from other planets are afraid of dudes who just hang with him, and he's been taking those lessons for so long that he's bros with the aforementioned knife genius and they have a designated back-up knife genius in case the first one is busy : this isn't exactly an 8 year old's clarinet lessons. And that's not getting into the fact that he does, in fact, have magic powers which is also the plot of the movie : it's not "scrawny kid with no real life fighting experience", it's "person who has received literally the best possible education on a subject doing their first applied exercise who bee tee dubs is also the prophesied messiah of psychic space cocaine."

It's not a magic plot hole. The climax of the movie is a whole scene about this that's been set up multiple times throughout the rest of the movie.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



PeterWeller posted:


I especially like that we don't see a full fishman navigator in this movie. Save that for when Edric shows up in Messiah.

From a film-making perspective, I couldn't agree with you more.

But if you got some body-image issues, the sight of a full-blown Guild Navigator can be quite the little ego boost. "Hey, maybe I'm not so ugly after all. That guy seems to be doing well."

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Ah. They’re an idiot.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



I don’t think anyone’s calling them tunnels in the sense of like dwarves mined them to connect Manhattan and Jersey. They mean if it’s a “tunnel” through space a la Stargate. So you’d need evidence of it moves or just chills in orbit.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



smooth jazz posted:

Actually now that the ladies codpiece mystery is solved my only beef is how they pronounced Pah-DEE-sha.

Padishah is a real word and it’s pronounced with stress on the first syllable. It’s an archaic title for Middle Eastern monarchs, like, you know, the Shah of Iran.

In a two and a half hour long movie about space assassins fighting over magic drugs, you picked the one thing that’s not a silly made up word as your stupid hill to die on.

Lmao.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



feedmyleg posted:

I'm going with the pigeon explanation whenever possible.

The Emperor has been limiting tech growth partially because he gets rich off of his hold on the pigeon-breeding industry.

House Coo-rrino.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



There is a really high correlation in people commenting in this thread how they missed important details and also coming up with increasingly bizarre misspellings of “Chalamet”.

“I don’t know what’s up with Tomithny Skichalet, is he like a wizard or something? He doesn’t look like Grandelf tho.”

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



thotsky posted:

The fight scenes were a bit naff, if the shields don't neutralize kinetic force then shooting someone should be plenty effective, yet people were throwing each other around, bashing each other and parrying like no tomorrow, suggesting it disallows penetration but still transfers force to the shield wearer.

I generally agree that the knife fights were kind of lame*, but this is the dumbest critique of them you could make. Do you have any idea how momentum works?

Large objects moving slowly behave differently than small objects moving really fast. This is not esoteric physics knowledge, you can see the difference by slowly walking into something vs throwing an object at it.


*They’re actually a great microcosm of the problem of adapting the book, because all the details are cool as hell but very hard to demonstrate purely visually. It’s a very difficult problem that the movie only kind of sort of solves.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



The knife fights were a solid B- generic flippy thing in an otherwise great film. They weren’t terrible but the words that come to mind are things like “serviceable” and “fine I guess”.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



thotsky posted:

Sure? I mean, this is science fiction here; my criticism is that the way the fights played out does not follow or demonstrate the internal logic of the shield gimmick. Basically, the shield is meant to completely defeat quick attacks, including projectile and even energy weapons. Only the slow blade will pass. This, and the unexplained mutually assured distruction that would result from an energy blast hitting a shield is the justification for why everyone runs around with swords in the far future.

However, if you can kick someone, or strike their blade away, that's basically showing that force is still transferred through the shield, rather then getting magically absorbed vibranium style or reflected onto the person doing said kicking. If that is true, a shotgun blast to the face should still be plenty dangerous. I don't need it to make perfect sense, it's ultimately magic, but it's a missed opportunity to just have regular movie swordplay with some visual effects on top.

No? Do you not know how guns work? They make a very small thing go really fast. In terms of raw kinetic force, a shotgun is basically negligible. In terms of actually knocking someone over, a good shove is more successful : bullets make you fall over because you can’t stand up, not because they push you over.

I’m not defending the choreography, it was very boring and I’d have loved to see something more interesting done with them. But this line of critique is incredibly silly.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



We all have some dumb loving critiques of things, it’s the human condition, but “this thing doesn’t replicate my own weird misunderstandings about how reality works, the creator should be aware of my bizarre lack of knowledge from huffing paint thinner and specifically conform to it” is the dumbest loving thing.

Not knowing a thing is fine and cool, using your ignorance as a basis for criticism is total bullshit and you should go back to Cinemasins.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Very hazy memories of the books, but I think almost everyone uses specifically knives because of the desire for concealing them, since almost all violence is sudden little ambush scuffles and not giant battles. Only major badasses like Duncan and Gurney use honest to christ swords and even then they don’t walk around with them all the time. Knives are like a gun in a normal action movie, and swords are like a giant machinegun or a sniper rifle or something that signals the dude is a total shitkicker.

But again, this was my reading from forever ago so my memory could be completely wrong.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



LionArcher posted:

problems with the best film of the year? Because it's a fantastic film.

Even very good films can have minor flaws and it’s okay to discuss them.

Like this movie has some (minor) pacing issues because it’s based on a long, dense book. It is useful to note this when analyzing the film. This is a neutral statement and the movie is still good because it does a good job overcoming this problem.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



D-Pad posted:

My friend sent me this and I have no idea where he got it but um...

Your friend owns and now he’s my friend not yours I called dibs.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Jack B Nimble posted:

Am I the only one who heard gurneys "the slow blade penetrates the shield" line of exposition delivered as a common phrase, like "knight takes pawn" or "keep your hands up"? I thought he had a kind of half taunting, half disappointed tone, like "c'mon, son", which matched his general frustration/fear in the scene.

Nah, that’s a pretty natural interpretation. Simple present in English is pretty much always habitual (ignoring statal verbs) so the only read is something like, “Generally, slow knives go through shields” i.e. it’s advice and possibly a common one, like “slow and steady wins the race” to give a super apples-to-apples phrase for comparison.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



PeterWeller posted:



And the cover of Sandworms is a picture of sandworms in an ocean. It's hells of bad.

A quick GIS shows at least three distinct versions of the art for this book and they’re all absolutely awful. I never touched the non-Frank Herbert books cause they sounded bad, this picture is truly terrible.

gently caress that old aphorism we should totally judge this book by its cover.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Defiance Industries posted:

Wasn't she tricking him into it so that she could check a box off on their breeding program?

Did you just actually say that she was asking for it.

Is that a thing you just typed with your human hands.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



GORDON posted:

especially when added to the mispronunciations of words that exist today (padisha, for example). "Atreides" may be the only "hard" word they didn't mangle. Yes, I realize it's 20k years in the future, and words change.... but the movie was made for 2020 audiences, and to me it hurts my ears. They changed it into "this is a way someone who doesn't understand how to stress syllables properly" says it. That makes it sound dumb, to modern ears.

But overall, best movie I've seen in a while. The above is just nitpicking.

As you noted, "padishah" (correct spelling) is a real, if slightly obscure, word. That they pronounce correctly in the standard way for English, Farsi, Turkish and Urdu, with primary stress on the first syllable and secondary stress on the ultimate.

Things like names of the Great Houses could have stress anywhere ; it's a made up fantasy future language and where you put stress varies significantly between languages.

Stop making poo poo up to nit pick a movie. It's embarrassing and you're dumb.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Mat Cauthon posted:

One thing I didn't get is why Paul fights Jamis at all, aside from plot set up reasons. Jessica being a BG she could've easily murked him (and probably every Fremen in that crew) in a matter of minutes right? She neutralized Stilgar in no time at all.

I chalked it up to her being pregnant, dehydrated, etc but it makes it seem like the BG weirding way isn't quite as significant in the movies, same as the Fremen getting their combat prowess dialed down to add tension.

Also it is very clear that Paul "winning" at the end is a very bad thing. His intent is slightly better but invoking the "desert power" thing (which is such a dad line, I chuckled every time someone said it) to me read as him leaning into the Atreides hubris that fell his father and grandfather.

He fought Jamis for the entirely in-character reason that he was challenged to a duel to the death. If he backed down, good luck ingratiating himself into a warrior society that's really into personal duels of honor to the death.

Also, while Jessica is a complete and utter badass, I don't think you have a very good idea of how hard it is to fight 20 dudes with god drat knives. Like, sure, that happens in movies sometimes, but actually think about how hard it would be to fight a bunch of people with knives who are trying to straight up murder you (and PS we know they also have at least one gun and these are also the people who you're banking on to help you out).

Like, it's not a crazy thing to happen in a movie ever, cause fiction can do whatever it wants, but there has been no set up for Jessica doing that kind of thing. It's a buck-wild assumption to make that she could do that. Especially because it's only a few minutes removed in the narrative from the biggest badass we've seen in the movie (Duncan) dying heroically in a last stand against like 6 dudes. Were you really expecting her to turn into Neo or something?

You've gone beyond the "it's a flaw if the character doesn't do what I think is optimal" and you're firmly in the "why doesn't The Crucible end with John Proctor drawing his way out of the hanging like Harold and the loving Purple Crayon?????"

I liked the movie, but it's not perfect and I came here to have a discussion about it. I'm staying cause every page or so some goon says the most absolutely bonkers poo poo based on the loving LSD shadow puppets that live in their heads.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Mat Cauthon posted:

I'm not nitpicking it. I loved the movie and am not criticizing the plot, it's just a point of curiosity. Take it down a notch.

I mean, that's the thing - Paul didn't have to accept, his mom could've killed Jamis herself just as easily. Jessica was easily the most lethal person there in a single combat scenario.

That said, it makes sense why it went down the way it did. Paul's reasoning as much as about wanting to protect his mother as needing to prove himself to the Fremen. Which speaks to how he falls back on the usual political scheming stuff even if he (somewhat) knows better. I wonder if that would've come through stronger had they included more about his mentat training.

I’m not defending the movie, it does a good job of that all by itself.

I just like making fun of people who do demonstrably stupid things, like wonder about things the movie obviously showed or just make poo poo up.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

stop talking about the man who has a separate bedroom because he can’t pleasure his wife: he wants you to talk about him

Very much agreed in general but just want to briefly laugh at him over this.

Because it’s so loving sad and he deserves it.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



It’s a creepy dude with some absolutely dire views about women.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Captain von Trapp posted:

So much of the effect of that book is not what happens, but how. There's a dangerous creature called an Alzabo which isn't too complicated - big bear-type thing, can imitate the voice of its victims, and has some ability to temporarily absorb their personality. But the scene where we actually meet a live one is among the most philosophically disturbing monster encounters I've ever read.

The humbling thing about the book is that you start to thing "ok Gene, lay off making up weird sci-fi flavor text words" and then you start to realize with dawning horror that he's not making up any words, your own vocabulary is just pitiful in comparison. Chatelaine? Indanthrene? Paterissa? Too bad for you, better break out the dictionary.

Okay I suddenly need to know every single possible bit of information about this.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Steve Yun posted:

Whether heighliners Act as star gates or as teleporting shipping containers really doesn’t matter. The main reason for the change is just so that audiences who read the books or or familiar with the previous adaptations would perk up while watching the new one

Also it's good to keep in mind that we're guessing based off of a really small amount of data from the film. We have the books, but those may or may not be used as a basis for the movie going forward. And we have the small number of shots of the highliners*, some of which show a weird view of a different kind/part of space in(?) the ship. We then posited that it was some kind of portal similar to a Stargate or something, cause that's a thing we're familiar with in another piece of fiction and jives with the idea of folding space. But for all we know that could just be what it looks like when you fold space and it creates weird optical illusions. Or space gets "folded" through another chunk of space that's neither the origin or the destination. Or that's Steve the Trainee Navigator's pet solar system or something.

Like, to me, personally, the jump-gate thing seems most likely to be what they're going for, but we shouldn't start pretending that we aren't just making our best guesses (for fun because the movie owns and it's enjoyable to discuss it). Even if someone stole Villeneuve's diary where he outlines his whole spiel about how they work, we wouldn't actually know because he could change it and make that explicit in a later movie. (Assuming we care about the creator's opinions, death of the author, etc.)


*That, unless I'm mistaken, we're just kind of assuming that's what they are : I don't remember a scene where someone points at one and goes, "Why yes, this is a highliner. Look at it lining highly." It's a very reasonable inference to make and it'd be weird if it wasn't true, but we're still reading between the lines even if they're pretty legible ones.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



stratdax posted:

Is Feyd the Baron's nephew by blood? Because since the Baron is Jessica's father, that would start to look like a Hapsburg bloodline

I believe so and I think that’s semi-explicitly an instance where you’re supposed to assume the Bene Gesserit just take care of that with the implication of unspecified gene-magic.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



That is loving art.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Cacator posted:

He has a significant supporting role in Nicholas Winding Refn's glacially slow and absurdly self indulgent Amazon show, Too Old to Die Young, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who watched that.

I’m pretty sure you meant those as negatives, but they’re all up my incredibly niche alley. And it’s got John Hawkes? And loving Hideo Kojima?!?!? Where has this show been all my life hottest of damns.

I appreciate that Refn is profoundly not what most people want in a director, but I’m such a sucker for his brand of slow, atmospheric pacing punctuated by horrific, squirmy violence.

How did this pass me by. gently caress yes. Thanks!

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Neo Rasa posted:


I always took a director saying they had final cut or not to be shorthand for how interfered with the production was and not a literal, actual instance of the director being the final person that says if the movie ships or not.

I'm sure there's tons of exaggeration and directors trying hard to "round up" to talk a big game, but that is literally exactly what final cut means. Like I guarantee lots of directors will lie about the process for a variety of reasons, but then they would be straight up lying. They either have final cut or they don't and there's not a lot of room for it to have a metaphorical meaning : it'd be like "metaphorically" having a parking pass or something.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Baronash posted:

I went and saw this in theaters last night, and just ordered the book because the movie was so good. I disagree hard with the person upthread who compared the battle scenes to Marvel movies. The first chunk of the movie was so good at setting up House Atreides. It was compressed, but they did a really good job of making it seem like a glimpse of a detailed and long-lasting culture. By the time the bombing comes, I was actually sad to watch that culture die. I’ve never felt that about any of the rotating collection of color-coded extras that occupy the Marvel universe. The fall of the city wasn’t a punch-up so much as it was an ethnic cleansing.

I was a little confused by that section though, because Duke Dreamy Dreamsicle seemed to be aware an attack was coming (“I thought we’d have more time”) but then does nothing to prevent his forces from getting chumped in 5 minutes.

You gotta understand that at this point in film discourse, a solid chunk of people have taken "like a Marvel movie" to mean "bad" and there's not any nuance. Because smart people have been using Marvel as a reference to point out larger flaws common to many movies (third act problems, an over-reliance on spectacle-based rather than emotional conflicts, a jocular but inflexible tone, etc.), other, dumber people have learned that "like a Marvel movie" is a critique you can lobby against something and parrot it regardless of if it's like a Marvel movie at all. I have some problems with Dune's fight scenes, but they in no way resemble your average Marvel movie except in really basic levels like "is an action sequence in a movie I saw".

And I took Leto's line about wanting more time to specifically mean he was preparing but he was preparing on the assumption he'd have more than like a week : he was aware that the attack was coming, but he was building an alliance with the Fremen to have long-term support cause he thought it would be in months-years.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



FLIPADELPHIA posted:

I can't imagine the thought process involved with bookmarking a thread on a movie you seriously dislike, then posting in the thread dozens of times to reiterate how absolutely terrible you think the film is. It's pretty wild.

Nah, I can totally see that and might do the same to have an interesting discussion about flaws in a film or how it could be improved. Or really even just to make fun of it.

Now constantly coming in with vague poo poo posts going, "I didn't like it because [blatantly false thing] and [thing that happened in a different movie] and [bullshit, vague platitude]," that doesn't make any god drat sense.

Like even if it's trolling, it's a long running and super low effort one.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



There are specific lines of dialogue that are talking about the Bene Gesserit's schemes to foment a messianic myth throughout the galaxy. Jessica doesn't literally say, "Yo Revvy Mama, how's it going with making the Fremens think my baby boy's space jesus?" but it's not exactly more subtle. It's overt text in the film, not a subtle thing, and you'd pretty much have to leave the room to miss it.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Ahem.

"It's okay to not have every single question answered in a movie. We didn't need to know when Thufir Hawat last dookied a scooter, the audience is allowed to think."

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Look I just want every single detail exhaustively spoon-fed to me, even and especially stuff that is being saved because it’s better served in the second part, but simultaneously I’m gonna piss and whine about everything actually shown in the movie that I’m not going to pay attention to.

Have I also mentioned how it fails to capture the exact same feeling as another movie that I saw when I was 10 because I can’t rub this one on my naked body to make me feel young again?

I am an intelligent film viewer.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Read up on the history of the Holy Roman Empire, the Landsraad is specifically named after and based on them. They did poo poo like this all the time.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Sure, and my counter is whelp I guess reality has a weird tone. What were you expecting?

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Because I watched the movie and that's what happened in it. Because the tone of the movie is the one established by the movie. It's the text we're talking about.

I brought up reality cause I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you might be coming from another, misinformed perspective.

The movie is about noble houses scheming in a covert stalemate as they struggle for power, which is what the movie shows. Because that's what the movie is.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.




drat, Hellboy got really weird later on.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Simplex posted:

If the movie was depicting Feudalism rather than a Roman/Byzantine political system then maybe. In this system the nobility would expect some warfare and murder between houses, but the Harkonnens retaking Arrakis is a direct challenge to the authority of the Emperor. It only happens with the blessing of the Emperor, or if the Emperor is weak.

Where are you getting a Roman/Byzantine influence?

It’s explicitly modeled after the Holy Roman Empire (weak, selected/elected emperor administering over a council of squabbling noble houses called the Landsraad lol), and this is exactly the kind of poo poo that happened there. The Emperor was more powerful than any other individual, sure, but we’re not talking absolutism.

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Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



We have no evidence that a religion can last 10,000 years because there hasn’t been 10,000 years of human history. There’s no evidence in either direction because there’s no relevant data. You can’t draw a conclusion.

You can say it seems unlikely to you, I guess, but you’d just making poo poo up in any direction anyway.

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