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Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






I watched Dune tonight and... honestly, I think I preferred David Lynch's Dune better, it showed some more of the political machinations going on rather than us being told that the Emperor is jealous (as it is, it comes off less as "The Harkonnans got the backing of the Emperor" and more "The Harkonnans bribed/convinced the Sardukar leader to give them some legions" in that scene, nice as it was), we actually got to see the Navigators, and it actually established that Spice is REALLY loving IMPORTANT, that it's something several factions want because it allows for precognicience and not just something that is used for space flight like this version made it seem like. I did like that they expanded on some of the technology, but I don't think they ever brought up the "if you shoot a shield with an energy weapon, bad poo poo happens for the shooter (and everyone around them)" which is... kind of important when you show laser weapons, but have everyone fighting with swords.

Also, the movie made the mistake of feeling like half a movie, so in the event that the second half doesn't get greenlit, you're stuck with half a movie.

Overall... eh, 6.5, 7.5/10 at the most. Also, I saw it in the IMAX theater, but when Part 2 comes out, I think I'll just wait for the bluray/4k disk instead.

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Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






cohsae posted:

Drum sand. Basically it's a patch of sand that reverberates really easily. So even if you're doing the Fremen stanky leg a worm will still hear you.

I thought he said "firm sand" and that his "Oh crap run" was because he realized he had stomped on it repeatedly to test it. I completely forgot Drum Sand was a thing in the books.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Steve Yun posted:

How do homing missiles work without computers

Pffft

Serious answer to obvious joke question: they have some level of computers, just nothing "smart" enough to get to the point of possibly wanting to overthrow humanity. After all, how was Paul's pet lightbulb following him unless they cramed a human brain in there?

Actually, considering it's Harkonnans we're talking about, it could very well be that homing missles have lobotomized human brains in them.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Tankbuster posted:

why would it be.

Because that might actually show that the Harkonnans are actually cruel rather than us just being told that they're cruel? And it would fit in with Yueh's comment about how they threatened to take her apart ("and then put her back together in New and Interesting ways" would be a good addition to that)

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Pedro De Heredia posted:

We are shown the Harkonnens are cruel when they are shown murdering hundreds of people, including unarmed prisoners. Did you miss that part of the movie or something?

The Harkonnens were going down the line summarily executing people with quick beheadings. What we're shown on the prison planet with people strapped upside down and bled out in the rain seemed more cruel and more in line with the Harkonnans. Honestly, if you showed me the two scenes without context, I would have assumed the roles were reversed (Sardukar doing quick executions while the Harkonnans torturing people in the rain).

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






SHISHKABOB posted:

The harkonnens are brutal, inefficient monsters. So just killing people in an animalistic display of power makes sense.

The sardaukar were taking part in some kind of ritualistic prayer ceremony to prepare them for war or something. Those people they sacrificed for the blood could have been anything from prisoners taken in their last raid, or an entire caste of chattel slave who are raised purely to be sacrificed as part of this planet-wide war religion. I'm making stuff up, but it's based on what I saw on screen.

But it wasn't really inefficient or animalistic? It looked like they had lined up the prisoners and were starting to go down the rows beheading people. Possibly brutal, but quick and relatively painless.

That we're shown something that DOES look cruel, brutal and animalistic, and it's not the group specifically known for their cruelty is where the issue lies. The movie has a nasty habit of telling us how bad the Harkonnans are, but we're never really shown them being cruel. They come off as generic baddies with nothing to really stand out compared to the Sardukar. Honestly, looking back on it, they came off more how I would expect a callous corporation that maximized profits over everything else to be portrayed rather than a group that are notoriously cruel.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






stratdax posted:

A movie that's part of a series still needs to be able to stand on its own, and this doesn't. It's internally incomplete, hollow and empty at its core.

I don't know if it's the acting or what, but the idea of Paul seeing his terrible purpose and wrestling with it and accepting that fate did not come through at all, so at the end of the movie it just felt like all the setup was finally finished and we could actually start the story now, when it should have been a moment, to paraphrase Villeneuve himself, like Michael Corleone becoming the Don.
And with everything else in this world completely sanded down to a mere mention or cursury scene, the movie - and world within the movie - just felt empty.

There were one or two points earlier in the film that felt like they were intended as the original ending point (I want to say when Paul and Jessica escape and see the devastation of the city and after they "die" in the sand storm, either way, it was two parts that had a hard cut to black) but the part they ended it at... I get why they ended it there, it just feels wrong, like that should be the end of the first act of a movie, rather than the end of a movie.

Fart Car '97 posted:

I thought mass ritual sacrifice, genetic spider humans, & beheading prisoners of war did a quick & efficient job of showing that the Harkonnens are hosed up dudes but I guess not

As others have pointed out, by modern standards they're pretty standard villains so it seems like a waste of time trying to ram it home much more than they did

Mass ritual sacrifice wasn't the Harkonnans, and the spider thing was... a pet. No idea if it was a genetic spider human, or just a freaky creature. So you have... beheading prisoners.

Randalor fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Oct 25, 2021

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Pedro De Heredia posted:

Congratulations on digging yourself into such a hole that you have to argue that beheadings are actually nice.

Compared to the stuff that we're told or shown as options in the movie? Being beheaded is nicer than them flying you out to the middle of the desert and letting you die from dehydration or sliced to ribbons in a sandstorm (I'm assuming on that one. They "only" talk about the sandstorms being able to cut through metal) or shackled upside down and bled out.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Steve Yun posted:

I haven’t seen part 2 yet, what was wrong?

The scene in the Chinese restaurant was significantly worse than that same scene in the miniseries with Tim Curry, with CGI that looked dated when the movie came out, along with the previous mentioned issues.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Actually, speaking of the sword fights... why do they only use swords anyways? I don't recall that being addressed in the books either, so I'm not holding it against the movie.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Au Revoir Shosanna posted:

You briefly see some Atreides troops using spears against the Harkonnens as they're storming the palace before the Sardaukar drop in behind them at least.

I wasn't sure if those were spears and swords, or just swords being held at arms length in the theater, it's a dark scene overall. Spears would make more sense but... Dune is weird overall in its setting so :shrug:

Edit:

thotsky posted:

They explain it in the book. If you shoot a shield with a laser gun the result is a nuclear explosion, originating at a random point along the line between these two points.

The real question is why battles are not just fought by suicide troops since anyone has that power at their disposal.

I meant "why not use spears or other long-shafted weapon to at least give distance between yourself and the enemy" rather than "why not use the lasers" when I said "only swords". We have a wide history of melee weapons to draw upon, even with the energy shields in play.

Randalor fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Oct 27, 2021

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






BlankSystemDaemon posted:

I think it also helps underpin how bad the Harkonnens are since carpetbombing civilians probably isn't gonna win you any friends in Feudal Future.

There is one other reason that came to mind after that would fit why they were doing that after they had won the battle. Considering how Capitslist this version of the Baron was portrayed, "Carpet bomb the old refinery and bill the Emperor/Navigators Guild for a new one" would fit in with that mindset.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Why did the poison dart hit Leto in the back anyways? Was the dart just "stuck" in the shield until it slowed down enough to go through it and hit him in the back (even after he was shot in the back, spun around and still got hit in the back from the dart... somehow)?

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Why did the bombs need to slow down anyways? Shouldn't they have stopped when they hit the shield and then fallen through from the reduced speed anyways? They wouldn't even need special technology for it to go off after it fell through the shield, just something to register "The bomb has suddenly stopped/slowed" and a timer to trigger the detonator a few minutes later. I AM willing to accept "anti-shield technology exists, just not at a scale small enough for humans to wield".

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Kurzon posted:

I don't know if it has been brought up in this thread already, but a lot of Warhammer 40,000 fans on various Reddit boards are saying that Dune is totally WH40K. I think the similarities are superficial. WH40K cribbed a few things from Dune but not the core themes. Sure, WH40K has navigators and a ban on AI, but they don't tie in to the core themes of WH40K the way they do in Dune. In Dune, FTL travel is impossible without the navigators, and the navigators need the spice, which is why everyone is fighting over the one source of spice in the Universe. Whereas navigators in WH40K are just there, you could excise navigators from WH40K without destroying the setting. Similarly, in Dune, the ban on AI is the reason why humans must use navigators in the first place (and also Mentats). The ban on AI didn't even appear in WH40K until the second edition, it is not key to the setting.

Not sure if this is a joke post, so all I'll say is that "yes, Warhammer 40k cribbed a lot from Dune" and that several of your points about 40k are either wrong, or could also apply in the reverse ("you could just excise Navigators from Dune while keeping all of the other properties of Spice and still have it be the most valuable property in the universe"). The one on AIs, though, I think was meant as an example about how much society had fallen back into ignorance of technology and/or how the machine cult is breaking the spirit of the laws while abiding by the word of law("This machine does not have an artificial intelligence, it has a machine spirit that guides its actions and informs us of its needs and desires").

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

I really liked the film, but it felt like someone was skipping every other chapter on the bluray menu. I really want to see the ~4 hour cut Momoa mentioned. Right now it feels like the theatrical cut of Kingdom of Heaven: a good film that was cut down from a great one.

As for non-book readers, if they are confused I explain it like this:
https://twitter.com/augustjpollak/status/1451379917137096727?s=21

Hey. Hey. Hey. That line is wrong. It's a planet made of cocaine with some rocks mixed in.

As far as his desire to make three films... please tell me he means "Dune and its sequels" and not just "Dune", because he covered... what, 2/3rds to 3/4s of Dune in this movie? If he just meant "Dune"... gently caress me, the second movie is just going to be the 2-year timeskip or all of the political stuff cut from the first movie, isn't it?

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Halloween Jack posted:

Yeah, I'm fine with the Baron not being a giant fat ball of gay panic, but he should absolutely be a madman. It's like they gave Skarsgard notes that said "Palpatine, but not the parts where he's enjoying himself." McMillan and Dourif were wonderful, McNiece was a joy. This is like if you made a Batman movie where the Joker was a boring gangster in a purple suit and the Riddler was a boring gangster in a green suit.

That's one thing I really enjoyed about David Lynch's Dune was that they nailed the "casual cruelty" aspect of Harkonnans, and if they had been just a bit more serious, it could have been outright chilling. Sucks that they leaned so hard on the "gay panic" aspect of the Baron though.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Honest question: is Brian's Dune stuff actually that bad, or is it just glorified fanfiction that ignores stuff from the original novels, but is at least readable?

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Defiance Industries posted:

Versus evil robots, you mean.

Eh, from the sounds of it, they were fighting against humans, so they couldn't have been THAT evil.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






I do wonder how much of the Bene Gesseret's scheming at that point was "Work to bring about the Messiah" and how much was just being addicted to playing politics and pretending to be the kingmaker, while lying to themselves that it was all for the bigger plan. Like, there has to come a point where they either have so many Contingency plans at work, or they're taking a fairly big gamble that Paula Atrades, Daughter of Leto Atredes, doesn't decide to be a child and accidentally falls down the stairs, or falls into the ocean, or accidentally impaled herself playing with grandpappy's sword. Or that the Baron or Duke just said "gently caress it", declared outright war and "whoops, we wiped out the other royal family. Whatcha gonna do?"

Hell, part of me wonders how many members of the Bene Gesserit breathed a sigh of relief that they could focus more on one of the other bloodline projects when Jessica rebelled and sired an heir instead of an heiress.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






jisforjosh posted:

I don't like agreeing with Ben Shapiro but his whole "feels strangely 15 minutes too long and 2 and a half hours too short" in his Dune review described it pretty well.

Which is odd, because I thought he liked dry things.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Inspector Gesicht posted:

So, video game adaptations. Where could we go using only the official book canon (gently caress off Brian and KJA) and the new movies style and presentation?

RTS is an obvious choice though niche, but what could be Dune's Arkham Asylum or Shadow of Mordor? Something that draws from across the source into a package that is stand-alone and approachable?

We've gotten 3 RTS out of Dune and barely scratched the surface of stuff they could put in. Just keep giving me that sweet, sweet non-canon House Ordos.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Hey now, marrying Chani wouldn't be a "But though must" option. After all, concubines are canon in-universe. gently caress Chani, marry the Emperor's daughter, kill the Baron. Wait, were we playing Marry/gently caress/Kill?

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






I mean, for all we know, that spider-thing is actually native to the planet, or some Tleilaxian abomination.

E:fb

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Make it Patrick Stewart. The man has looked like he was in his 70's since his 30's, so it all works out!

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Failed Imagineer posted:

What if the Imperial Herald from the start of the movie turned out to be the Emperor? I know it's not in the book or anything but it's the kinda stupid thing Emperors do sometimes, like Undercover Boss but for the Galactic Imperium instead of a Hobby Lobby.

Yeah, I realise this is falling into the realm of "goons suggest terrible pointless plot ideas*

I would assume that the heads of the houses know what the Emperor looks like, although consider the importance of what's going on, I could see the Emperor being the one to issue the decree in person, as a "I know you have the option of running away, I want you to have the balls to say it to my face" kind of power move.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






TheMadMilkman posted:

Didn’t he blow something like 60 years of profits to pull off the attack? One thing that is also missing from the movie is that Leto sent suicide bombers to Giedi Prime, and they blew up the Baron’s spice reserves. Going from memory, this was supposed to help give them time before the inevitable attack.

He really is on the verge of ruin when they retake Dune.

Not only is this not shown in the movie, it explicitly didn't happen, considering the Baron's comment at the end about how it was time to start selling their spice reserves, but slowly to not crash the market. So it's less "He was on the verge of ruin" and more "The CEO made a costly investment that wouldn't have sunk the company, but would have put them behind financially for a few years if it didn't pay off". As it is... 60 years of profits that they can probably recoup in a handful of years considering they're the only supplier of Spice and... whoops, SOMEHOW all of the existing infrastructure was damaged or destroyed, guess House Harkonnen will just have to increase the price until they can get fully operational again.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






2house2fly posted:

I wonder if the emperor is aware the Reverend Mother wanted Paul and Jessica spared. Probably not.

It's funny to imagine that the opening scene from the 1984 movie where the guild guy says they want Paul killed also happened in this movie, and there's all this scheming and secret deal making going on regarding Paul specifically well before he's anybody of note

I mean, "Son and heir to the house we're trying to destroy" is kind of a major note when you're dealing with political intrigue. At least they had the foresight to go "Wait, if we don't kill the son, he can come back later and revive House Atreides and we're back to where we started". I mean... could you just imagine if they didn't kill him and confirm his death, he might fall in with the locals, learn their ways, rise up as a leader among them and lead them in a violent war that results in them taking and holding the only source of cocaine oil spice in the universe. Man wouldn't egg be on all their faces if THAT came to pass.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Famethrowa posted:

yeah, LOTR isn't a fantasy novel really. it's a work of literature by a linguist that happens to have fantastical elements. the derivatives that came after established the fantasy genre.

I don't know that scifi has a similar progenitor like fantasy. I know the tropes got codified at some point, but nothing singular like LOTR. Dune has a pretty big influence on what came after, but it's just one of many.

I THINK HG Wells was the first author that wrote what we would recognize now as science fiction, but I could be horribly mistaken about that. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






I would ask what that's about, but I'm pretty sure the answer would cause me physical pain at the sheer stupidity of the explanation.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011







Ow. I think that link gave me an aneurysm.

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Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Kurzon posted:

I was talking about terrorism. Like, if you want to blow up a city, just rent a hotel room downtown, activate your shield and get your accomplice to shoot you repeatedly until the desired explosion happens.

Isn't the problem that "your accomplice shoots you, and you both die in an explosion" just that the size of the explosion could be everything from "The walls of the room you're in need a quick scrubbing to get the blood off" to "several city blocks are gone"? You only get one try, amd you have no way to control the size of the explosion. If you were wanting an explosive death, bombs still exist and are far more reliable.

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