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BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/SecretsOfDune/status/1222420210239574016

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BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

Bug Squash posted:

He reflects our current reality of insecure tech bros acting like messiahs.

BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jan 30, 2020

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

I think Herbert was also arguing against some of the themes in Asimov's Foundation trilogy. Herbert's writing style was to often take other sci-fi stories and flip the themes around and challenge them. In the case of Dune he was saying that prescience is a really dangerous thing in the hands of a tyrant, whereas Asimov's psychohistorians save the galaxy in Foundation. Herbert had a strong libertarian streak and distrusted centralized governments and technocrats.

I think he flipped the protagonist/antagonist relationiship around as well. In Dune, Asimov's antagonist -- the Mule -- becomes Herbert's protagonist in Paul; the unexpected variable that was not predicted and that throws off the well-laid plans of the psychohistorians, Asimov's protagonists who become Herbert's antagonists in the Bene Gesserit.

BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Jan 31, 2020

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

habituallyred posted:

Maybe it was the years of hype, but it seemed to me that the whole book was actually building up to a joke. All the little chapter headers are great, and most of them are from hagiographies written by the princess that Paul marries at the end of the book. But at the end of the book Paul says something like, 'I heard Princess [name] likes history. I hope its true, because she is getting the contractual minimum from me.' Just a really weird disconnect from the reputation the book has.
Yeah I am a huge Dune freak / pervert and have a bunch of Dune stuff including some pretty rare stuff. But I think Herbert could have probably turned his sci-fi novels into a cult like L. Ron Hubbard if he wanted to, since some of the fans would've probably gone for it. It has definitely long had a real hardcore cult following. Not to bring BH/KJA into this but those novels upset some of those fans so bad they started calling themselves "Orthodox Herbertarians." They even developed a horribly snobby forum called Jacurutu which is a Fremen term for those who have been cast out ... from the official forums!!!

lol

But they're just sci-fi novels, with Herbert playing with other sci-fi concepts and flipping themes around. I believe he talked about his methods and also criticism of Asimov in "Maker of Dune" which is a collection of his essays published after his death. I have a copy sitting in a box somewhere.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

Groovelord Neato posted:

I think Herbert's actual writing is pretty bad and thus have never been a huge fan of the book as a whole but the universe is so interesting including stuff like Mentats.

I'll never understand why Anderson and lil Herbert thought it was a good idea to make the Butlerian Jihad a generic war against domineering machines I always envisioned it as a luddite kinda thing.
yeah as a crusade against "machine thinking," i.e. automation. and in herbert's context of the time as reflecting fears of computerization after world war II.

the dune encyclopedia is quasi-canon because herbert signed off on it, but out of print (it also conflicts with the prequels... hmm), which is very interesting in terms of world building. it describes the jihad as being sparked by horror at automated abortions.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

i don't mean to get all political, but i think it's interesting dune appeals to people with wildly different political views, while i've understood herbert to be pretty conservative or at least libertarian minded in a very pacific northwestern kind of way. i would probably guess it's due to the intensity of his vision, which is probably the most we can ask of a writer (along with being, like, not a lunatic)

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BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

TheOmegaWalrus posted:

So that's what looking at a cinematic equivalent of a stone burner looks like.

Gleefully blinded.
could be a crusher (?) impact, i forget the name; i.e. a frigate that is designed to impact the planet like a weapon

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