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AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



just listened to the whole series on audiobook over the course of a few months and I'm really REALLY looking forward to the movie

the only thing that kind of irks me the replacement of "jihad" with "crusade", the series is so wrapped up in Islamic imagery and themes that a willingness to compromise on that makes me worried about what else they're going to change

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AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Automatic Slim posted:

It’s the David Lean influence. Lawrence of Arabia was an influence of Dune and any desert call back since.

Have to say I’m not fan of the washed out monochrome because it’s over used. Seems to be in fashion but it’s unappealing.

Its probably a bit of a reaction against the extremely cartoony and (sometimes overly) colorful marvel movies. Its not exclusive to DUNE and you'll probably see a bit more of it going forward if audiences respond well to it. I don't necessarily mind any art style I just don't want hollywood to do the thing they do where everything has to look the same for a few years. Its better to be in a world where the stylistic choice is determined based on the film rather than whatever is "in" in the industry when it is made.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Idk I think people in this thread are seriously underestimating the pent up demand for movies post pandemic (yes I know its not actually post, you know what I mean). Pretty much every big movie released this year aside from real dogshit like in the heights or cruella has been raking in money.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Neo Rasa posted:

This movie will be yet another Dune adaptation not brave enough to have chairdogs so it's not really going to be an issue.

Arent chair dogs only developed between the fourth and fifth book?

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



The book describes spice addiction producing "blue-in-blue" eyes so I always imagine the whites of the eyes turning blue with the iris turns a slightly different shade of blue

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



ClothHat posted:

It was a really fun casting choice, particularly if more movies get made (they won't). I'm cracking myself up imaging Jason Momoa talking to a Jeff Bridges sandworm in God Emperor of Dune 5 years from now.

Jason momoa does seem like someone who could plausibly make a woman orgasm just from climbing a wall real good.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



david_a posted:

It’s been a while since I’ve read the first book, but is it implied that Ix may already have created an artificial navigator at this point?

no its pretty explicit that they only do so in response to Leto's Peace

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



https://twitter.com/fellawhomstdve/status/1424091889997856776?s=19

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



deoju posted:

Oh, I'm kinda relieved by that actually.

I was afraid it was 'dirty old man writes a tweenage girl to be overly sexual' cringey poo poo.

There is a subplot that veers into this in the second book where Alia is going through puberty and general teenage hormone stuff and finds out that it mixes very badly with her pre-awareness

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



I listened to the six Frank Herbert books on audiobook and have zero desire to read a word his son ever wrote, sure the ending is a bit of a cliffhanger but Duncan getting his freedom is about as close to a "happily ever after" you'll ever get from the series

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Paul says hes not the Kwisatz Haderach and talks about coming a generation early at around the midpoint of the book but once he undergoes the spice agony toward the end he does explicitly say he is the Kwisatz Haderach. Presumably he only felt it was accurate after undergoing the spice agony.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Failed Imagineer posted:

Herbert only alluded to the boylust in his novel, whereas Orson Scott Card really developed on the theme. Arthur C Clarke avoided the topic entirely in his writing, not wanting to mix his work and his pleasure

If by "alluded to" you mean the baron telling his people to prepare "a boy for his chamber", specifying the one that he selected because he looked like paul and a few sentences of the baron fantasizing about loving paul

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Hasselblad posted:

I have to admit that although I read the series numerous times, I still do not get his motivation for most of the time. I mean, if he wanted to avoid the Jihad, yet knew there was no way to avoid it, he was still wringing his hands during messiah, all the way to Chani's fate which he foresaw... by that point I just don't get what he was trying to avoid that didn't already happen?

If I remember correctly in Children of Dune it seems like his plan was to terraform dune into a green paradise, which would kill all the worms and destroy spice forever, thus meaning someone like him could never exist again, but his son convinced him that that timeline would lead to the extinction of humanity and that only his Golden Path could guide humanity to a future where there was no longer a risk of extinction

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Arglebargle III posted:

Paul saw the golden path but would rather walk into the desert and die than become that tyrant.

hes perfectly willing to let Leto II do it though

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Say what you will about Warhammer 40k but they dont even try to justify it outside of shrugging and mumbling something about having really good armor

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



porfiria posted:

I feel like there would be more pikes in Dune irl.

A lot of fantasy literature has a similar problem with over emphasizing swords over spears and pikes.

90% of all pre-gunpowder soldiers fought with a spear and the last 10% is 9.999% some form of bow and arrow with the 0.001% being Roman Legionaries.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



davidspackage posted:

Got a reminder that this movie's premiering this week, and the week after I have vacation days I'm not doing anything special with. I think I'll look for some weekday early showing when there's likely to only be a handful of people and chance the theater for the first time in a year and a half.

People keep saying this but when I look online I still see an Oct 22 release date, whats going on here?

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Goblin Craft posted:

I looked it up earlier, international release is a month ahead of the USA for some reason.

that is very stupid

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Arrakis is also unusually dry even for a regular desert. Every spare drop of moisture is sucked up by the little makers.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



there should be industrial scale dehumidifiers to really dry out the theater so the audience get as thirsty as the characters

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Jewmanji posted:

I don't understand this. Do people assume the Butlerian Jihad outlawed all computers? Because that's not what it was. It was a ban on AI. There are still computers in Dune.

No it was pretty explicitly a ban on a computers. Leto II talks about it in God-Emperor where he talks about how computers ingrained their users with "machine thinking" and that the jihad was just as much a war against that as it was against the AI. The only people who flaunt the Butlerian proscription are the Ixians and Leto himself.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Cognac McCarthy posted:

I think it's easy to assume there are computers in the universe because they have some advanced technologies and engineering, but I believe they're all made using simple machines and electronic devices, that's it

Yeah and its not hard to imagine that there must be some group of Mentat engineers designing a lot of this stuff.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Jewmanji posted:

"Taraza leaned forward in her chairdog and scanned the Records Relay projecting its condensed Bene Gesserit glyphs above the tabletop for her eyes only. "Darwi Odrade," the display identified the standing woman, and then came the essential biography, which Taraza already knew in detail. The display served several purposes- it provided a secure reminder for the Mother Superior, it allowed an occasional delay for thought while she appeared to scan the records, and it was a final argument should something negative arise from this interview".

Sounds like a computer to me.

Yeah AFTER Leto starved everyone of spice and forced them to find alternative methods of performing their functions. Even the Guild is using some computers after that but again thats only as a result of Leto's engineered spice famine.

The Butlerian Proscription is still in full force in the first three books.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Kurzon posted:

From Heretics of Dune, which came out in 1984. I guess by then Frank Herbert realized that the future wouldn't make sense if all machine computers were banned.

As I understand it, in the past, human starships used AI supercomputers to navigate foldspace, but then the war with the machines happened and AI was banned by religious decree, so human switched to navigators and became dependent on the spice for interstellar travel. It's a premise that I'm skeptical of. No real-world religion bans technology. I imagine a religion that tried to ban something as useful as supercomputers would get cast aside quickly once humans got over the emotional trauma. Religions are usually shaped by the practical requirements of the cultures that spawn them.

My dude have you ever heard of the Amish?

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



This is from the glossary of the first book

quote:

Jihad, Butlerian: (see also Great Revolt)-the crusade against computers, thinking machines, and conscious robots begun in 201 B.G. and concluded in 108 B.G. Its chief commandment remains in the O.C. Bible as "Though shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind"

There are no computers in the first three books, they only start appearing in God Emperor after Leto begins implementing the Golden path, this is literally from the books

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Baron von Eevl posted:

Following in his father's footsteps!

You take that back, God Emperor is a treasure

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



I disagree that his kids inherit by divine birthright. Leto II literally turns into a worm god and beats the poo poo out of anyone who opposes him, then calls all the leaders of the fremen together to hit him with all of their weapons. Once hes decisively proven they cant resist him he declares himself in charge and thats that. If anyone had the power to stop him they probably would but there is literally not anyway to resist him.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Kurzon posted:

A thing to note about the Cold War comparisons is that the United States was not a classic imperialist. If the Americans were meddling in other countries, it was usually for security, not resource extraction. The Americans wanted to contain the spread of communism, which terrified them. That's true even for oil. People forget that America already has vast reserves of oil, and with the shale oil revolution America is now self-sufficient when it comes to energy.

Absolute ahistorical nonsense, just because the US has its own Oil reserves doesnt mean they arent affected by global market price fluctuations, and things like the Saudi Oil embargo in the 70s can, and did, affect the US very negatively. In addition if you think the US is not involved in resource extraction in its client states then I wonder what you think the United Fruit Company or similar corporations were doing. In the United States Imperialism is a public private partnership and several of our most blatant acts of Imperial plunder have always been laundered through the private sector.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



There is an incredibly cringeworthy rant about liberals that comes out of nowhere in one of the last two books

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



stratdax posted:

“Do I presume that you need no explanation of sexual variations?” asked Sirafa.

“A safe assumption,” Lucilla said.

“Very good,” Sirafa said. “And you can administer vaginal pulsing?”

“I can.”

“From any position?”

“I can control any muscle in my body. And lest you get the wrong idea, the abilities I was taught are not usually marketed. They have another purpose.”

“Oh, I’m sure they do,” Sirafa said. “But sexual agility is a –”

“Agility!” Lucilla allowed her tone to convey the full weight of a Reverend Mother’s outrage. No matter that this might be what Sirafa hoped to achieve, she had to be put in her place. “Agility, you say? I can control genital temperature. I know and can arouse the fifty-one excitation points. I –”

“Fifty-one? But there are only –”

“Fifty-one!” Lucilla snapped. “And the sequencing plus the combinations number two thousand eight. Furthermore, in combination with the two hundred and five sexual positions –”

“Two hundred and five?” Sirafa was clearly startled. “Surely you don’t mean –”

“More, actually, if you count minor variations. I am an Imprinter, which means I have mastered the three hundred steps of orgasmic amplification!”

You don't even really have to post quotes like this to illustrate how horny the last three Dune books are, the plot of the last two books involves the Bene Gesserit going to war with an exiled splinter group of their order that has returned and mastered the ability to gently caress so good that they mind control the men they have sex with.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



PeterWeller posted:

All the prequels apparently exist to set up two grumpy robots to reveal as the real Daniel and Marty when they finally got around to writing followups to Heretics and Chapterhouse.

loving lol, I don't even know why you would need a followup to Heretics and Chapterhouse. They ended in a pretty conclusive place with Duncan finally whole, free from control and able to make his own destiny again. There are some loose ends but there are always some loose ends if you are writing history, and including that in your fake history just makes it all the more believable.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



AlternateAccount posted:

Isn’t Idahos liberation brought about by the aforementioned gently caress-magic?

yes but its because he was given masculine counter-gently caress magic that mind controls the women he has sex with and he uses it on one of the Honored Matres which causes them to mind control each other and awakens all of his repressed ghola memories from every previous life

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



I enjoyed them but I listened to them on audiobook at work and it was very amusing just how relentlessly horny they were if nothing else. Plus I think it actually gives some decent closure to Duncan's character. One thing that did bother me though, in a way entirely unrelated to horniness or politics, was that the the two books focus on both the Bene Gesserit order and Bene Tleilax society with a lot more time being spent on the Bene Gesserit. The reason this bothers me is that the Tleilaxu are one thousand times more interesting than the Bene Gesserit ever could be, with their near total mastery of genetic engineering and secret religion, and they're basically relegated to a b-plot so we can have more Bene Gesserit workplace politics.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



RestingB1tchFace posted:

Guess that's all personal preference. I liked both Heretics and Chapterhouse and thought both were a step up from God Emperor....which I think is the weakest of the six.

Just so you know that is an extremely controversial opinion and God Emperor is widely regarded as the second best book in the whole series by a ton of Dune fans (myself included). Heretics and Chapterhouse have their strong points but they are both terminally horny in a way the rest of the series isnt and Chapterhouse contains the absolute nadir of the series with the Bene Gesserit sanctioning the rape of a minor in order to awaken his memories of a previous life.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



The most interesting stuff Leto says in God Emperor is when he talks about machines and how they engendered "machine thinking" and how humans think in a way that is fundamentally different from computers. It was a shockingly relevant discussion in a sea of reddit nonsense, made more interesting because I had just seen Adam Curtis make the same point in his latest documentary.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Hodgepodge posted:

In case it isn't clear to anyone following along without having read the books, I can't recall the precise details but the last Duncan ghola of the era of the giant penis god who cannot ever gently caress cucks the OG God Emperor of Mankind with the idealized woman the Tlelexliu create to destroy (successfully insofar as he sort of choses his death) Leto II with love.

It was the Ixians that made her not the Tleilaxu

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



I think the pre-born are supposed to be intentionally off-putting since they are essentially adult minds in child bodies but it definitely veers off into territory where I'm less creeped out by the concept than I am by the author who wrote it

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



It should be noted that after God Emperor and its rants about how female armies could never become sadistic rapists like male armies, there is in fact a female army of sadistic rapists that becomes a huge plot point

they're the same ones that have the mind control sex power

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



I listened to a podcast about Dune a little while ago, it was made before this new movie was announced but one of the guys said that Paul should be played as "an aristocrat that has gone feral" which I think I agree with

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AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Arglebargle III posted:

So a normal aristocrat.

You have a much higher opinion of aristocrats than I do

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