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Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Also, Jodorowksy's Dune gave us Alien*, while the Dune novels ultimately gave us Star Wars. It's an interesting property because on the whole it's inaccessible and unwieldy, but littered aspects of the story or settings found their way into tons of great poo poo.

(* H.R. Giger was brought in during pre-pro to do visual design for Giedi Prime and the Harkonnens, and those Hollywood in-roads are what eventually connected him to Ridley Scott.)

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Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



MonsieurChoc posted:

It gave Incal which in turn gave us the Metabarons as one of many spinoffs Get your order of events right!

And the Incal gave us The Fifth Element. What I'm saying is, Dune has weirded its way into all manner of poo poo and people have no idea.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



AlternateAccount posted:

This is the best of all ideas.

For real. I want this very badly. And I feel like we're owed one, since the universe took David Bowie from us before he could play Niander Wallace in BR2049.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Bug Squash posted:

I think the idea of Wallace is excellent by itself though. An intelligent man that's entirely bought into his own hype, and living in the shadow of actual genius. He reflects our current reality of insecure tech bros acting like messiahs. A better actor could really have brought the emotional fragility of that existence to life.

Yeah, on the page, the character makes sense. He's a hyperbolic take on a tech bro billionaire, a "visionary" capitalist who's arrogant to the point he believes he's a god. Leto handles that aspect...fine, I guess. But there's no subtlety or nuance in it, he's all bluster and menace and grandiosity.

The thought I had leaving the movie was how much better it'd be if Wallace had, like, a false warmth to him. If he felt paternal or empathic but then did the violent, hosed-up stuff he does. Ironically, the actor that came to mind when I imagined that version of the character was Stellan Skarsgård. I guess I'm getting my Villeneuve / Skarsgård fix this year.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Which is kind of what Star Wars is in all aspects. Random bits shamelessly sliced off other properties, blended into a more accessible form for a mass audience. It's Dune, but also it's a western and a WW2 dogfight movie and a samurai movie and a fantasy epic. With some Ben Hur and a little bit of Triumph of the Will and a little John Carter of Mars. It's pure pastiche, and nakedly so.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



cptn_dr posted:

This but from The Lighthouse

"Let Shai Hulud strike ye dead, Feyd-Rautha! HAAARK!!!"

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Jewmanji posted:

Dune also presents as an epic, optimistic fantasy tale, which is more palatable than a dreary, cynical detective film.

I think it stands a better chance than BR2049, but Villeneuve is a very restrained and considered director regardless of the content. I'm very sure it'll be good, but can 100% see a mass audience rejecting it as too slow or pretentious or not fun enough or whatever.

Dune has a ton of marketable qualities based on the story alone. There's all the used future and space magic poo poo Star Wars copied, and there are Houses like in Game of Thrones, and superhuman martial arts stuff like The Matrix, and Poe Dameron and Khal Drogo and Thanos and Drax and Zendaya are all there...like, there's a garbage version of this story created by JJ Abrams that'd probably do pretty well. But we're getting the Villeneuve version, so it'll be beautiful and well-made and take the themes and characters seriously and actually be cinematic, and also maybe nobody will care and it'll be a $200M flop.

...I'm realizing how thoroughly the post-2016 political situation has crushed my dreams and made me cynical. I want to believe but reality keeps disappointing me.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Kassad posted:

I don't see anything wrong with these costumes but I do hope members of the imperial court have insanely elaborate costumes (if we see them in this film). They're literally decadent nobility constantly reminding everyone else that they're better than them.

Yeah, I do too.

House Atreides should have a totally clean, anodyne look to them, though. They need to look upscale and "modern" to contrast with the Fremen, whose styles are very worn and utilitarian, but they also need to look restrained and humble vs. the extreme decadence of the other Houses. Tailored blacks and greys with simple lines accomplishes that goal: they'll appear cold and technocratic to the Fremen, but plain and unimpressive to people like the Harkonnen.

It's the Harkonnens or Shaddam IV who need to go balls-out on costume design. An obese pedophile in a hover-harness who lives on a BDSM planet can pretty much look as crazy as they want. Like, they need to go full Space Caligula with it.


If i was going to complain about something, it's that I don't understand why the still-suits are black in this version, too. Their goal is to offset the extreme heat and dryness of the deep desert, and to make the wearer blend into their surroundings. Shouldn't they be a lighter color, white to reflect more sunlight or tan to look like part of the landscape? A more earth-tone look would also serve the story's themes, painting the Fremen as these extensions of the planet's ecology, and making Paul's shift from a pale vampire in black to a tan desert ninja way more visually striking.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



u brexit ukip it posted:

And yet Irulan shows up at the Atreides banquet!

I don’t think giving Irulan stuff to do was a mistake. The miniseries managed to make her an actual character, which was nice.

The screenplay is a pretty solid adaptation all around; it’s way better than the Lynch film in that sense. Too bad every other aspect of it showed off the nothing budget and B- casting.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



C-Euro posted:

Detective Pikachu motherfuckers

Right? I didn’t realize people’s reception to it was so lukewarm. I thought it was great, really playful with the setting, basically the closest thing to a modern-day Roger Rabbit I’ve seen in years.


I watched Assassin’s Creed and was struck by how utterly flavorless it felt. There are so many cool elements - the Spain scenes, the parkour, the sense-memory poo poo - but then they throw us into a grey psych ward for like half the runtime and drone exposition at us. It was such a boring approach to a non-boring premise.

It should’ve had so much more fun with the craziness of that setting. I have similar complaints for Max Payne: an excellent and stylish game adapted into the most boring and lifeless movie possible.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Strom Cuzewon posted:

I watched it for the first time yesterday, and I thought the pokemon designs and background appearanches was really well done. Stuff like the casual Snorlax blocking the road, or the sulky jigglypuff in the bar. But the movie felt so flat and lifeless.

I'll agree that the world-building was cooler and more interesting than the pretty by-the-numbers investigation plot, but I still liked it all around. I think my favorite moment was the underground fight club with the Loudred backing the DJ. There was a real grasp of the mechanics of this city full of Pokemon, which ones would have which jobs, how they'd intersect with civic life in official and unofficial ways. It was clever. Maybe my expectations were just that low, and I was pleasantly surprised when it surpassed them.


This thread is rapidly deviating from a conversation about D U N C. Does anyone know anything about the music? I loving loved what Hans Zimmer and Benjamin Wallfisch did for BR2049, though I don't know if the latter is involved with this one. I'm guessing no Toto guitar riffs on top of an orchestra, either.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



david_a posted:

I’m sure it would have been an “experience” no matter what but I don’t think Jodorowsky actually had the skills to direct a movie like that.

I don’t think skill or lack of skill would’ve had anything to do with it. The Holy Mountain is hardly some small, manageable indie...it’s really huge and ambitious, just also very strange and off-putting. He’d have succeeded at making Dune the way he wanted, it’d just be a weird and alienating take on the story.

I’d honestly prefer a graphic novel. All his Dune energy went into The Incal anyway...might as well stick with that medium, where Orson Welles or Salvador Dali can still show up.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



AFewBricksShy posted:

He also worked on the show Emerald City, which apparently existed, but I've got no recollection of it at all.

I watched it. It was...trying to be something, for sure. The plotting was going for a Game of Thrones thing (there were rival kingdoms and special factions with clashing internal goals and a complex political order built around magical fantasy elements), but it was rendered in an aesthetic like...well, a TV version of The Fall. None of it was in a particularly good way, if my point is unclear.

Between that and Self/Less, I don't think my expectations would be very high for any new Tarsem projects. But for sure, The Cell and The Fall are intensely great-looking, so we all still have those.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



David D. Davidson posted:

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that Indiana Jones' nane is ment as a tribute to the character.

I’ve never heard this, but I have heard that Indiana was factually the name of an Alaskan Malamute that George Lucas had. (The character’s name was originally Indiana Smith before they changed it to Jones.)

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Roman Reigns posted:

Ugh I'm coming to terms that this movie won't be very profitable and that we're not getting a sequel because of this damned plague

Sucks balls, man

At least more people are picking up the book, apparently

I assumed that might've happened because Villeneuve makes slow, beautiful movies that lovely general audiences don't respond to. After BR2049, I was shocked they let him make this.

Though even the most obtuse studio execs have to realize that *nothing* is going to do well in theaters amidst a pandemic, right? Like, "Luke Skywalker Joins the Avengers" wouldn't earn poo poo when most of the country is terrified of dying in a movie theater. If studios aren't grading success on a curve in the current environment, it goes beyond "cutthroat capitalism" to "run by a poorly-programmed AI."

"Release D2NE or we start a Butlerian Jihad against Warner Bros," is what I'm saying.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



CelticPredator posted:

They’re already making DUNC costumes wow



“The Imperium runs on the spice melange. America runs on Dunkin.”

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Zartosht posted:

They'd hire the failson probably.

Disney's The Butlerian Crusade, written and directed by Brian Herbert.

I think their MO these days is to shortlist a dozen or so indie feature directors from festival circuits, pick the one that's most useful for virtue-signaling on a given project, then strong-arm that person into creating the exact product they wanted to make in the first place as they offload all the action scenes to an in-house second-unit.

Brian Herbert would get like a Producer credit, I guess.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



WarMECH posted:

...or a life-sized Little Maker I can drown in the bathtub to make my own Water of Life.

You could probably accomplish something similar by purchasing 50 tabs of LSD off the dark web, then drowning a pet python in your bathtub just as the tabs hit.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



david_a posted:

I don’t know if I prefer have a Part 1 with no conclusion or no new Dune at all.

Yeah, that would suck so hard.

Even if there is a Dune Part 2, it'll probably be years before we see it. Which might be ok, since the story cutoff might be a natural time jump of Paul fully embedded within the Fremen. But seriously, goddamn if they just don't make the second half.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Arglebargle III posted:

if your body has bones that means you're a skeleton

Taking your bodily existence as a whole, most people are skeletons far longer than they are anything else. So, generally speaking...

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



The Baron is basically Caligula in that regard, but yeah, there's not really a line dividing his homosexuality from his pedophilia, or a line dividing his sadism from his sexuality generally...so, it's not looking good.

In general, Dune has a pretty clear moral argument about hedonism or decadence which you could logically apply to his thoughts on sexuality. It seems like sexuality is only good when it's connected to lineage or reproduction, when it has some utility beyond the personal. Characters who actually get off on things or enjoy bodily experience are typically bad guys, but anyone please jump in with a counterexample if you can think of one. Meanwhile, I recall the Fremen as starkly ascetic and hyper-functional. Unlike the Harkonnens with their bacchanals and their gladiator games and their queerness.


"Is Leto right?" seems like a fair semantic debate, but yeah not really one Frank Herbert intended people to have, I'm sure. But who cares? Have the debate. Herbert was, in fact, a human author and not an omniscient worm-king with esoteric knowledge.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



I didn't remember that. Did the orgies get gay?

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



phasmid posted:

I don't think Frank Booth is gay so much as a batshit-crazy rapist.

Yes. Frank Booth seems like a sexual sadist whose only turn-on is power or inflicted pain. The implication he’d rape Jeffrey was probably more about that than “gayness” in any definable way, which is a trait I think he shares with BOB from Twin Peaks (who is implied to have molested Leland Palmer as a child in Fire Walk with Me, and who obviously raped and murdered Laura.)

How David Lynch feels about queer identities is an interesting question, because he definitely codes characters that way and depicts gay or trans people, and not always as villainous or bad. But there’s a LOT of implied or literal gay rape across his filmography.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



I'd watch the gently caress out of an animated Incal. Though also, John Difool is a pretty insufferable protagonist. Deepo is the real MVP. And the Metabaron is cool...I'm in it for them and the jellyfish ocean planet. And the guy with a German shepherd's head. Really everyone but the lead, I think.

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Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



deoju posted:

I watched the first episode of SciFi Channel miniseries out of curiosity the a while ago. Surprisingly, its not completely poo poo. Some of the art design is pretty good in a Star-Trek-DS9-with-a-higher-budget way, and William Hurt does his best to elevate the level of performances. I'm baffled by the choice to cast a 25 year old with a receding hairline as a teenage Paul though.

It's a pretty good script and a bad everything else. I guess some of the costuming is wild in a good way, but mostly it's trying really goddamn hard but doesn't have the money or acting talent to achieve its ambitions.

I remember it as a very good adaptation of the book, though. Compared to the nonsense in the Lynch version, it's shockingly coherent and very economical. It even makes some changes that I think are better than the source (mostly, giving Irulan something to do so she's an actual character, and providing some context to the wider nobility beyond House Atreides and Harkonnen.) But still, some truly rough effects work and some real C-tier performances drag it all down.

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