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MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


habituallyred posted:

Maybe it was the years of hype, but it seemed to me that the whole book was actually building up to a joke

Lord of Light came into being because Roger Zelazny wanted to include the pun "then the fit hit the Shan" in a book.

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MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Jewmanji posted:

What did he plagiarize?

The pirates of the Caribbean theme is lifted from The Lion King 2, oddly enough (although as Zimmer did the incidental music for LK1 it's not clear if it's plagiarism or not, as some things may have been kept back)

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


spanky the dolphin posted:



Another crumb to overanalyse.

I assume this is the bit where the spice miner gets eaten?

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Kingtheninja posted:

Just finished the book last night, and I'm slowly going over the lynch movie (haven't watched in maybe 15 years). What the hell is this voice activated laser thing? I don't remember anything like that in the book and it seems jarringly wacky to come up with that kind of device.

To be honest, the biggest change from the book is that there is very little politics in it which is impressive given that Dune is about 75% politics.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Class Warcraft posted:

*monkey paw curles*

Some studio exec: "Know that this movie needs? Some voiceover narration to explain to the audience what is happening. You know, like in Blade Runner!"

Or Dark City

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Ingmar terdman posted:

e: a sandworm just roared in the sci fi movie, is that a thing? I can't remember the book saying anything about them vocalizing

Doesn't happen in the books, and in God Emperor Leto states that the ones that come after him will actually have a kind of animal intelligence (viz: the ones before him don't even have that).

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


PeterWeller posted:

He says the new worms will have more ganglia and "awareness" and also talks about how they'll contain a "pearl" of his consciousness, which seems borne out by Sheeana's relation with them in Heretics, so I think it's meant to be something more than animal intelligence.

I've been listening to the audiobook so can't go back to check easily, but I think the phrase "animal intelligence" was a direct quote

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


davidspackage posted:

I'd be fine if Duncan becomes a ghost that only Paul can see, and advises him on how to pick up girls.

And... and maybe he could be shirtless the whole time, for no apparent reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtWirGxV7Q8

"Spoon!"
"Spicehead"

From "Muad'Dib: Conversations" by the Princess Irulan

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Jewmanji posted:

But in Heretics, you'd think that after a similar time jump that some of these entities like the Bene Gesserit or the Tleilaxu would've evolved into entirely new concepts, or otherwise been left behind by history. It'd be like if the Catholic Church maintained its same position of power, influence, tradition etc. for literally like 15,000 years or something. Like, the lack of development from Dune through God Emperor is perfectly explicable, but by all rights the world of Heretics should be unrecognizable.

It is - in the Scattering. The old Empire is pretty explicitly a small, stagnated backwater that no-one particularly gives a poo poo about.

Pascallion posted:

I always had an outsized impression of him, even before I read the sequels. I remember being surprised when I reread the book (and especially watched the Lynch movie) how early he gets killed.

Iím willing to attribute it entirely to Duncan Idaho being a pretty badass name.

Frank retconning when he died will have been part of that

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Jewmanji posted:

Babe 2: Pig in the City, I think itís obvious enough from context

Happy Feet

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


It's just the In Space Noone Can Hear You In Space movie

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Libluini posted:

This entire discussion is confusing the hell out of me, because intelligent machines are a thing in Dune, not just a metaphor. Hell, in the end the seeker machines even show up, and the story finally ends when machines and humans join together.

As far as I can see, this basically invalidates the entire thing of things like this:


The books themselves say the exact opposite of this! :psyduck:

Do you present a Dune podcast

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Libluini posted:

Is there some kind of Council of SF that determined this? As far as I concerned, they're canon. And it's kind of weird to claim the son "didn't understand his work" when he was using notes from his father

If you consider them "canon" go wild, but that doesn't have an impact on a discussion based around only the works of Frank.

It's also entirely possible a) not to understand a work despite having notes on it (or indeed despite having the work as a whole, otherwise Eng Lit would be a much easier course) and b) for the quantity and depth of said notes to be exaggerated.

PeterWeller posted:

Princess Irulan, Harq-al-Ada, and all the other fictional paratextual authors who lived thousands of years after the Butlerian Jihad aren't traumatized by it. If it looms so large over their interpretation and understanding of the times they are writing about, we'd get more than just snippets about it.

This isn't necessarily the case - if the trauma of the BJ is culturally universal, why talk about it?

(This is a real problem historians have, people didn't write stuff about their society down because it was really obvious to them at the time)

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Libluini posted:

You realize by claiming something extraordinary, you also need extraordinary proof. So, where is your proof? Right now, this reads like pure-strained delusion to me.

Even funnier: Groovelord Neato thinking because he doesn't like something it must obviously mean it does not exist. That's a level of mental disfunction that's amazing! Do you think he will start or join a cult soon? :allears:

Death of the Author, but make it so the author died 20 years before the book was written

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


I don't think Daniel and Marty are machines in Chapterhouse. It's much more interesting if Leto is correct and the Scattering guarantees humanity's survival imo as the BG/HM are only operating for their own survival - which is what they've been doing all along - rather than humanity in general's. Turning it into the heroic BG saving us all from the machines runs against the grain of every single one of the six Frank books.

(It's very easy to see the HM as an existential threat to the people of the old empire because of what happens to the BG and the BT. But, for the most part, textual evidence is that they're only an existential threat to the institutions, and most of the population goes along just fine)

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Grandpa Palpatine posted:

What are the chances that these films have some T&A in them?

Best iteration so far was that Sci-fi miniseries, so that wasn't possible.

Well if we get up to Heretics...

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Yadoppsi posted:

Brian's original claim was he found a floppy disk containing the Dune notes. How much data can a floppy from the 80's hold? Three trilogies worth of notes?

Standard mid 80s 5 1/4 inch floppies could hold 360kb, which could hold the entire text of any of the books except the first. Text isn't big.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


David D. Davidson posted:

And then Feank Herbert forgot that for the last two books.

The BG aren't the heroes of the last two books any more than Paul is the hero of the first two

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


phasmid posted:

Also, Duncan goes off into the unknown with (Murbella? Right? It's been a bit) and Scytale

Re: Chapterhouse end, Nah, murbella is off being head of the BG and the HM. It's Sheeana who flies off

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Maxwell Lord posted:

I'm starting to think that this was the only way they could get it greenlit- Villeneue didn't have the pull, the only previous theatrical adaptation had flopped, etc.

Yeah, DV definitely has come over as someone who would happily roll the dice if it meant getting the chance to make Dune

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


PeterWeller posted:

As for whether Leto II is an unreliable narrator, the main text of God Emperor is framed as the journals discovered at Dar es Balat long after his death, so one could argue that they are his honest ethical perspective because he has no reason to lie to himself, rendering him a reliable narrator.

Except he knows that they will be found, so as much as anything else they're being made for a future generation

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


VinylonUnderground posted:

I thought he did that in the first book, when Paul tells Chani that it was a political marriage and history would recognize them as lovers?

You can be an authority on someone without being married to them in fact as well as name!

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


AnEdgelord posted:

Arent chair dogs only developed between the fourth and fifth book?

Yeah, many thousands of years down the line

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


phasmid posted:

It would be cool to be immune to poisons and stuff..

You're not immune to poisons unless you transform the spice essence

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


MacheteZombie posted:

Just rent the theater out with some buddies. Easy peasy

In serious I was planning to see this in theaters but I'm concerned about the vaxx effectiveness lasting against delta now that Israel dropped that new study that shows a huge drop

That study is statistically crap

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


david_a posted:

Itís been a while since Iíve read the first book, but is it implied that Ix may already have created an artificial navigator at this point?

The only mention of Ix in the main text:

quote:

"Few products escape the CHOAM touch," the Duke said. "Logs, donkeys, horses, cows, lumber, dung, sharks, whale fur -- the most prosaic and the most exotic . . . even our poor pundi rice from Caladan. Anything the Guild will transport, the art forms of Ecaz, the machines of Richesse and Ix. But all fades before melange. A handful of spice will buy a home on Tupile. It cannot be manufactured, it must be mined on Arrakis. It is unique and it has true geriatric properties."

and then a couple of references in the appendices.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


DarkSol posted:

So, is Paul actually the Kwisatz Haderach?

Yes.

quote:

"How would you like to live billions upon billions of lives?" Paul asked. "There's a fabric of legends for you! Think of all those experiences, the wisdom they'd bring. But wisdom tempers love, doesn't it? And it puts a new shape on hate. How can you tell what's ruthless unless you've plumbed the depths of both cruelty and kindness? You should fear me, Mother. I am the Kwisatz Haderach."
Jessica tried to swallow in a dry throat. Presently, she said; "Once you denied to me that you were the Kwisatz Haderach."
Paul shook his head. "I can deny nothing any more."


DarkSol posted:

nor does he really seem to "channel" the feminine genetic memories explicitly like Jessica or Alia do or the masculine ones like Leto II does.

Alia, Leto (and Ghanima) are all abominations, so it's not surprisingly they're written differently.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Hasselblad posted:

I have to ask those who are worried about covid in a theater:
Do you all work from home?

Yeah, although I wouldn't regard it as hypocritical or at all weird to work in an office with the same handful of people every day vs being in a theatre with hundreds of randoms.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Also the Guild being so reliant on spice was a twist in Dune, it was retconned into common knowledge later.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Hasselblad posted:

I found it pretty dumb that millennium into the future, humans would not look at a smear of spice on the sand, a substance that is uber valuable and allows space time to be folded, and not already know what produces it and what can destroy it.

As the imperial planetologist, what could Kynes have been telling the emperor all the years he'd been studying it?
:iiam:?

I think I said it in the other Dune thread, but it's not like there's not a topical example of the rich and powerful ignoring geographers for short term gain and massive long term loss

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Judakel posted:

At this point it would be the only way to get a second part, because the HD version leaked online a couple of days ago and there's still a few days until it comes to theaters/ HBO Max. Very sad.

It's performing very well in the markets that it's opened in.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


The Lynch Dune is a mess with some interesting bits, but if you're going to watch a mess with some interesting bits I'd rather watch Zardoz

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


stratdax posted:

With how little they developed Rabban in the movie, who in the book is actually more developed than Feyd,

This is from a few pages back, but seen a fair number of posts with a similar theme (Rabban underused compared to book), and it just isn't true. Rabban is in one scene in the book, where he's being told he's taking over Arrakis again because Piter has been killed. He's mentioned a few times before that, a few times after that, and then unceremoniously dies off screen. Feyd, by comparison, actively has stuff going on that isn't just "get spice, kill fremen".

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Baron von Eevl posted:

I think it's from messiah, but it's more of a reveal than a retcon.

Nah, that she's the Baron's daughter is in "Dune":

quote:

He had seen two main branchings along the way ahead--in one he confronted an evil old Baron and said: "Hello, Grandfather." The thought of that path and what lay along it sickened him.

All other information is failson.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Arglebargle III posted:

I think the early hype for this suggested it was a potential Fellowship of the Ring level juggernaught, and it isn't. So it could have been better.

Fellowship made $40-something million opening weekend, it was a comparative slow burner

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Baron von Eevl posted:

There is a director's cut, it's the version currently in theaters. It's the version the director cut. I want to see deleted scenes too but "director's cut" doesn't really make sense unless the director didn't get to release the movie the way they wanted to.

Give me a poorly-paced cut then!

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


thotsky posted:

If that is true, a shotgun blast to the face should still be plenty dangerous.

Shotgun blasts don't transfer that much momentum - at most the same as the recoil if whatever you're firing embeds in the target, at most twice if they bounce off in a very precise and extremely unrealistic scenario.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Randalor posted:

Honest question: is Brian's Dune stuff actually that bad, or is it just glorified fanfiction that ignores stuff from the original novels, but is at least readable?

I've read a fair amount of Star Wars EU stuff and the Dune BH/JKA books are unreadably bad.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


stev posted:

Her and Dave Bautista are casting choices that could leave some people scratching their heads - without the context of Part Two it feels like two huge name actors being totally wasted on bit-parts.

If you go by the book, Rabban never appears on page after the point the story is currently at

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MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Boris Galerkin posted:

What I took from that scene was that he didnít feel ok with people murdering in his name but also that he was cool with murdering the fucks who murdered his family. His smug look on the spaceship overlooking his army says as much. Anyway, then he joins up with a bunch of natives and I just donít see how you could see anything but him being a white savior when his future visions show him leading his new people to glory.

Narrator: It wasn't glory

thotsky posted:

I would love to know if this was a studio note, or if it came from Denis or one of the other writers. I think they even skipped "the sleeper must awaken".

That's not in the book!

Arglebargle III posted:

In the book House Ginaz (Duncan's first employer) was recently done dirty in much the same manner as House Atreides and the Landsraad didn't lift a finger.

That's not in the book either! (At least not any of the ones written by Frank)

GreatGreen posted:

Also, I'm a fan of Jason Momoa but it felt like he was poorly cast for his role. Momoa is naturally too laid back and cavalier to be believable as a highly disciplined military pilot / combat expert / deep cover spy. Like I get what they were going for but that role should have gone to somebody who naturally leans more towards being something like an rear end in a top hat with a heart of gold than just straight up teddy bear surfer bro.

Idaho isn't a deep cover spy, he's a guy who's good at fighting and sexing the ladies

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