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Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Do mentats have the big eyebrows in this movie too or is that another way they've strayed from the source material (which is of course the Lynch movie and not the book)?

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Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Yeah, the ban on computers is kind of the whole point, because you can't do the trillions of calculations necessary for interstellar light-speed travel with mentats you need navigators to psychically understand where the ship will go, and in order to have navigators you need tremendous amounts of spice.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Oh okay glad it sounds like that to you.

The first book also has two navigators disguising themselves as guards by wearing contact lenses. You know, these guys:

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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I only read the first four books, but the first book describes them as totally normal people and the second book describes them as weird fishmen in a spicetank, but that giant floating dude is 100% Lynch.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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porfiria posted:

Herbert explicitly said Windows 95 was just at the edge of legality in Dune, but Windows 98 was banned.

Thou shalt not make a computer in the likeness of a human mind, nor one that can support a serial bus that can be used for keyboards, mice, and printers all universally.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Arglebargle III posted:

Herbert saw the Lynch movie and loved the spice tank guy.

With good reason, that's like the best thing about Lynch's Dune - and considering how bad the overall movie is there are still a lot of great things in it.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Cognac McCarthy posted:

Brian Herbert's Golden Path is to deprive humanity of Dune spoilers by writing lovely books no one cares about

Following in his father's footsteps!

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

I loved it. Really liked the books (up to a point lol) and I am middle eastern so I always liked that part of it. I have to say I always had the impression that Herbert’s stance on like, colonialism and ME culture was VERY well researched especially for a book in the 60s. Like I see why people want to have the reading of “white boy saves Arabs” but I know where he’s going with this

My take with Herbert is he believed most strongly that the USSR was evil incarnate and anything that stopped them was an improvement, and while he was probably generally anti-colonialist it was probably mostly directed towards that evil empire. On top of that it's not hard to read from him a respect for Arab people as a noble savage type thing, but that if they ever got an inch of real power they'd kill everyone out of pure unbridled fanaticism

What sticks out to me was when Maiden wrote a song about Dune and contacted his estate about using the name, the response was something like "my father hated rock and roll, but the kind of rock and roll he hated most was heavy metal. And of all the heavy metal, the kind he hated the most was Iron Maiden."

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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I actually kind of love that Leto2's whole thing is setting up a generations-long plot to have himself assassinated because he's loving over it and the only way for the universe to go on is if he's not there.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

Felt like the sardukar throat singer

That’s so obvious now that I feel dumb. Baron VLADIMIR lol. The USSR also tried very very hard to make the Arabs part of their soft empire, to the point that when Dune was written it was even run by Gamal Abdul Nasser - who’s party were the Arab Socialists strongly supported by the USSR, and who the US and Israel tried to force out in a very widely publicized incident to regain the Suez Canal (basically the spacing guild? I dunno)

Spice = oil, you need it to allow any transportation and boy it comes from the ground in the desert.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Well yes naturally

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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sean10mm posted:

Also Iron Maiden were never good.

*scoffs operatically*

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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I don't remember Clark or Asimov being that weird about sex. Asimov would talk about it occasionally and it would be weird, but not like in a concerning or obvious hangups kind of way, or even in the "jesus christ Stephen King, you didn't need to include all this" kinda way.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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I'm sure they were but I'm gonna go ahead and just nor read any further into that.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Baron von Eevl posted:

I'm sure they were but I'm gonna go ahead and just not read any further into that.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Missed opportunity with this movie to not have SUNN O))) perform the soundtrack. They could get like 4 or 5 notes out before the movie was done.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Wait, are you telling me the guy who wrote extensive justification for how Paul's daughter was actually a several millennia-old consciousness inside the body of a prepubescent girl so it's actually okay for her to marry an adult man and procreate was a libertarian?

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Hodgepodge posted:

e4: okay, so the timeline from the Dune Encyclopedia is somewhat different, keeping Leto II and Ghanima's bizzare youth but making Farad'n only 19 at the time, having been born in 10200 AG. that doesn't really make things much better (it's only two years difference), but it at least positions both Ghanima and Farrad'n as both kids forced into this by circumstances. I'll let others decide if that "helps."

It doesn't. I mean mostly it was a joke about libertarians wanting to abolish age of consent but also "hey, the 11 year old wanted it and since she has all the power it's okay" nooooooooope

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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I personally would rank the first four books in release order. Messiah is fine, it's not nearly as good as the original. Children is pretty bad, and while I appreciate how weird God Emperor is I didn't actually like it at all.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Messiah's a perfectly reasonable book, it's just nothing special.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Communist Thoughts posted:

It's like, the lady Jessica, while taking a dump, pondered the golden path.

This is the most believable thing in any of the books.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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It has a certain "shrimping my youngman" vibe to it.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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My sister got a breakthrough covid case at a restaurant despite being fully vaxxed and then despite quarantining passed it on to her 6 year old (obviously unvaccinated) daughter who thankfully ended up not dying. Got pretty close though!

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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GY!BE is still going and as far as I know are still firmly opposed to using their music in movies, out at least blockbuster Hollywood movies.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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The only thing they really bothered me was how lax the fremen were with their stillsuit and mask discipline.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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PeterWeller posted:

Maybe I overread the movie because I've read the book so many times, but a lot of the things I'm hearing people wish were in the movie are things that I felt the movie conveyed well. Like Yueh's close relationship to Jessica and the family is, I think, well conveyed by him being the only other person present when Jessica brings Paul before the Reverend Mother, he and Paul speaking in a secret language, and Jessica commanding him to remain silent. The politics are, I think, well conveyed by the conversations with Rabban, Piter, the Baron, and later the Reverend Mother. The importance of Spice is outright stated in one of the filmbook expositions and shown by the empty Spice silos and Paul's reactions to it.

Like I'm pretty sure you're joking, but there's a shot of Paul's right hand burned to ash and bone in that sequence.

Kind of? I think it's a shot of a burned hand sticking out of a pile of burned bodies from one of his jihad visions.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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I don't remember a shot of Paul's hand inside the box like Lynch's movie had, I remember cutting to flashes of lots of burned or hot things like the sun, the sand, a pile of burned bodies with a prominent hand sticking out.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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PeterWeller posted:

Ahh word. I thought that might be the case, but I also figured it was meant to be the Atreides secret battle language.

I got the impression the signing was the battle language, although they had way too many members of the household understanding it.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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WB should greenlight the first couple sequels now with the intention that they won't shoot messiah for like 18 years so Paul can be old, and also they should shoot all the scenes with the Duncan gholas now with Momoa and like greenscreen him in to those movies when they start actually shooting them in 20+ years.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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moths posted:

I went back to the book, and Yueh's wife had been kept in pain amplifiers- which was how the Harkonnens broke his imperial conditioning.

So yeah, they kept her in the box until she died. Here they had just dispassionately killed her at some point.

In the film, we only see one person suffering for the Harkonnens' pleasure, and it's the spider pet. I guess that's where I drew the connection.

Maybe connecting those dots means I watch too much horror, but it seems weirder to me that they didn't.

When they brought up yueh's wife I actually thought this was where they were gonna go with it but I'm glad they didn't explicitly say that. There's nothing saying it wasn't yueh's wife, they just didn't sit you down to say "oh, this hosed up spider person thing? Why, just a bit of collateral!" while flying around the room cackling against the sound of an organ fugue.

You can say this is the only real horror they show from the Harkonnen but you should keep in mind that it's profoundly hosed up. It's either a genetically engineered human-like abomination or a recreational surgical abomination that wears a gimp suit and drinks from a water bowl. It was clearly human-based. This is a really incredibly hosed up thing! I think saying "oh it's just their pet" kind of undersells it on the level of calling chattel slavery "just a job."

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Pedro De Heredia posted:

That's psychological cruelty. Not "turning someone into a spider."

Being on the receiving end of extreme recreational surgery and being kept as an object? Not nearly as bad as not knowing whether someone you love is dead.

I get it, it's hosed up and crushing. I understand how that can destroy someone and be used to bend them to your will because it's something that really happens to people every day.

The whole spider thing is obviously fictional and yeah from that perspective it's easy to dismiss it mentally - it isn't real and it couldn't be real so big whoop.

The thing is there's a history of people trying to do things exactly like this to other human beings just to see if they can. It stems from falling to see someone as a person and that scene is telling us that the baron and the Harkonnen in general do not view anyone as human. It's literal inhumanity and cruelty for the sake of cruelty or even amusement.

I'm not arguing that Yueh's wife should have been explicitly said to be that, I think that would have been dumb. I am expressing discomfort at how casually people are dismissing something that, when it became known that the Nazis were doing something on a much simpler and smaller scale was so shocking that it led to international outrage and the Nuremberg code.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Pedro De Heredia posted:

It would be very bad if someone did this in real life, but we're talking about representing it in a movie, which is not really the same thing.

It would be very bad if someone tortured dr. yueh's wife in real life, but we're talking about representing it in a movie, which is not really the same thing.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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You could put a moth brain in the missile. Like it just needs "if [condition] then follow." We don't know what that condition is, whether it's detecting the brightest visible light, heat, light at a very specific frequency that you'd see from a certain kind of engine, even vibrations from the ornithopter wings. You'd just need a moth brain and and provide it with the stimuli from a camera to think whatever it's supposed to follow is the moon.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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I think it's from messiah, but it's more of a reveal than a retcon.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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There is a director's cut, it's the version currently in theaters. It's the version the director cut. I want to see deleted scenes too but "director's cut" doesn't really make sense unless the director didn't get to release the movie the way they wanted to.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Vote Muad'dib: The Strength At The Base of a Pillar, The Strength Arrakis Needs.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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I buy Momoa as an incredible warrior, but I don't buy Brolin as a guy who'd pick up whatever the gently caress that lute thing was and jam for a while. Momoa actually plays stringed instruments! I bet you could build something huge and kind of interesting and he'd reasonably be able to play it! Get the Warr guitars guy on the phone.

Honestly though I was apprehensive about Momoa and Brolin in those roles before the movie came out but I think each one was well cast for their role as it was written. I feel like if you switched the more character-y bits and had Duncan as the hard rear end overly serious guy and Gurney as the affable but "but seriously though" guy it could have worked too.

It'd have robbed us of a lot more Momoa in a hypothetical Children/God Emperor duo but it would blessed us with a little more Momoa in the might-actually-happen Dunc2.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Prince would have made a good emperor. Maybe Franco Nero but he only speaks Italian, which the subtitles identify as Corrinian.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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I think herzog's an interesting choice, he's definitely got that inhuman energy but I can't see him as someone who sees themselves as above humanity. Dali encapsulated that perfectly. I really think Sting is on the right track, aging rockstar is the avenue to explore. Bowie would have been too on the nose.

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Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

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Astrochicken posted:

Somewhere around when they got to Arrakis it hit me how insane it is that this movie exists at all, and in this scope. Watching this in imax, with the scale of the ships and the inherent ceremonial weirdness of the dune universe kept in tact, was really special. THAT SAID, i don't know what someone unfamiliar with the novels or either of the other 2 adaptations will get out of this because this was as much an adaptation of the novel as a pretty direct homage to Lynch's Dune.

My wife hadn't seen any previous adaptations or read the book and she was asking if we can watch it again because she loved it. My coworker was telling me last week that he's not huge on scifi and has tried to read the book a few times but always bounced off of it and had no interest, but apparently he watched it over the weekend and loved it as well.

edit: I showed my wife the Lynch version of the Gom Jabbar scene for comparison and because I think that's one of the overall better scenes in that movie. She thought the hand burning poo poo was cool and thought McLaughlin was okay as Paul but thought the performances were stilted and the excessive voiceovers were embarrassing.

Starks posted:

I liked the choreography but the lack of blood was kind of distracting. I knew it was PG (:canada:) going in and I have no issue with that, but seeing Duncan slit someone's throat and just have them fall down took me out of it a little.

I really liked that when Kynes gets stabbed you see a little water spray out. Reinforces the whole stillsuit thing and the preciousness of water as life on Arrakis.

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