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I love how everyone in the dune universe is ready to recite the wikipedia page of whatever object they are holding the exact instant someone walks into range. It's in every book and it's the best part of dune and they did okay with it being in the movie. :paul walks into a garden a man immediately starts explaining how trees work:
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Oct 26, 2021 19:42
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I.G. posted:In the book Leto's shield is down when he's shot by the dartgun. I have no idea why they changed it so that his shield was active in the movie--it just confuses the audience and makes it seem like the shields don't work well. I feel like that scene was like the only scene in the whole movie the shields actually mattered. Every fight scene would play out 99% identical if they didn't have them, that one was the only one that did something unique and visually cool. That will be the only actual shield thing anyone actually remembers. They changed it because that and the scene were bombs did a little retrorocket slow before hitting were the only two scenes in the movie that animating shields in actually made the movie better.
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Oct 28, 2021 13:56
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Blood Boils posted:Re: mentats I like how mentats in the book are like 90% just normal dudes, but then all the other special types of people all are weirdo mutants of some kind so they had to go back and invent "twisted mentats" so they could have them be a monster class too.
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Oct 29, 2021 12:27
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Jack B Nimble posted:Am I the only one who heard gurneys "the slow blade penetrates the shield" line of exposition delivered as a common phrase, like "knight takes pawn" or "keep your hands up"? I thought he had a kind of half taunting, half disappointed tone, like "c'mon, son", which matched his general frustration/fear in the scene. before sparing paul also turns on his shield, takes his own knife and hits it against the blue shield then moves it again real slow and then looks at the camera like "huh, that is how that works" even though he must have used it a trillion times before.
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Oct 29, 2021 20:11
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Every sci-fi fiction has endless "why don't they just ______" about various things. Dune sidesteps that a lot by having every single thing every single person does be part of very very very important set of social rules passed down generation to generation, shared by everyone in the universe and enforced by both cultural and supernatural means.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:40
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Captain von Trapp posted:Here's a quick and surely point-missing logistical question: in the books, how do the Fremen physically get off the planet to do their Jihad? Extorting the Guild with the threat of cutting off the spice? Getting blasted on drugs and flying the ships themselves? Not really an answer to this, but regular old FTL *does* exist in the dune universe separate from and pre-dating spice.
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Nov 1, 2021 18:10
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I don’t think it does. Prior to spice, didn’t they rely on advanced, AI supercomputers which are now outlawed and religiously banned? They have FTL, then they have instantaneous space folding. the space folding requires spice to give humans prescentience, although a computer could do it as well. There is a bunch of times in the book where they mention various groups without access to spice having to travel months to get somewhere. To move warships or come back from somewhere. And space folding only got invented after dune was discovered.
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Nov 1, 2021 19:05
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MrL_JaKiri posted:So there's a distinction between Dune and the rest of the books. In Dune, how important the spice is to everyone (beyond just being a life extending drug for the upper classes) is less a fait accompli. It's only revealed late in the book that the Guild uses spice for navigation, and the BG explicitly use other drugs as well as the spice for becoming RMs or their truth sensing for example. The Navigators being weird lookin' guys is also only introduced in Messiah. Saphos Juice is the biggest remnant of that, it's such a weird store brand soda version of spice. Like mentats take it to be smarter, it comes from a rare tree, and if you become addicted your lips stain red. And everything about that is just one step lamer than spice.
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Nov 3, 2021 14:03
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Boris Galerkin posted:Why don’t people like the books the son wrote? Jewish people have had a secret society that secretly lives in space and infiltrates organizations from behind the shadows. Not some stand in allegory the way a bunch of dune stuff is allegorical for various groups in the middle east, just regular old space jews. sneakin around, infiltrating organizations secretly and controlling things, using secret jewish magic they didn't tell anyone about. (which they feel the BG copied from them)
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Nov 5, 2021 17:49
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Halloween Jack posted:Wasn't that in Chapterhouse, which Frank wrote himself? Sorry, I stopped after God-Emperor. Chapterhouse is more like, Jews were brutalized by the catholic takeover of the universe and driven into hiding, But their faith had remained in small pockets. Like some small number of people passing on their faith person to person generation to generation quietly. Herbert books they are more like a secret organization that talks to each other and flies around and makes plans to do stuff, it's a tone shift that makes it go from normal to weird.
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Nov 5, 2021 18:33
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:The appendix of Dune has section on terminology used in the book, and it makes it clear that there were conscious robots. I mean, we know thinking machines existed. The issue is that thinking machines could control and manipulate and strip freedom from you, the way all the smarter than human factions in dune do. Not that a scary robot would come punch you.
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Nov 5, 2021 20:10
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Pedro De Heredia posted:Well if you say "I don't want my freedom stripped" the robot will have to punch you to ensure compliance, so there's that. Eh, that isn’t very dune. In dune books if someone is powerful they talk quietly to convince you to do what they want or they breed your family over generations or they do secret conditioning or something.
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Nov 6, 2021 14:43
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thotsky posted:Yep, the juice is made from spice. Nope, Elacca, the other magic drug source in early books that got eventually streamlined out as redundant. (Unless some later book merged it so elacca trees grew from spice somehow)
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Nov 6, 2021 16:28
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thotsky posted:I figured all the super-power factions used various spice-derived products for their powers, but yeah, wiki says I remember incorrectly. Someday they will discover the missing third drug that only makes you a little smarter and makes your nose turn green
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Nov 6, 2021 19:30
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Dune definitely doesn’t have ftl radio. There is tons of plot points about curriers being killed, captured, faked, delayed, etc. everything is sent by the space equivalent of horse messengers
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Nov 7, 2021 21:24
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:
I feel like the exact opposite, dune is like peak sci-fi of people just walking around, entering rooms and then whoever is in the room spontaneously reciting the wikipedia page of the entire history of whatever random object they are holding or group they belong to. Like 75% of scenes in dune start with someone narrating to someone else what something is called and what it does. It's why by the end most characters were immortal or clones of each other, so they could just stop having characters to write and have more time for everyone to explain things to each other more. Like I love dune but it's up there with Stephen baxter books for "everyone exists just to walk around and explain the setting to the reader"
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Nov 7, 2021 22:03
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Regarde Aduck posted:that's not technobabble I’m not going to poison you with a needle, I am going to hold a gom jabber to your neck which is coated in meta cyanide, let me explain the whole history of this needle while we stand here with me threatening to kill you. Like I love dune, but it is literally like 95% people saying made up words then explaining long histories and rule sets about that made up word.
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Nov 8, 2021 03:29
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I am sure you could easily make a hand wave answer about it always be minutely different every time or galactic orbits or something, but it's funny the whole function of the whole concept of the need for spice is to have navigators because navigators are the only people that can plot routes for the warp engine because it's so complex. Then in practice they just set up routes and go the exact same places the exact same way over and over like a train on a track. yeah we know we turned you into a giant fish monster, yeah I know you can calculate a route between any two points in the universe.... just bring me the same way you always do bus driver.
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Nov 8, 2021 15:41
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Boris Galerkin posted:So if they can peek forward in time to see the future, why do they stop at “just” controlling space travel? navigators follow the anime trope where like, when all the characters in the anime have a special power source it's all just regular looking people with maybe a gimmick then the first ultra powerful guy they meet with over 9000 power is some hulking inhuman mutated beast monster, but then when they get to the really most highest upper level everyone goes back to just being a dude. Navigators live in spice nonstop and turn into weird spice monsters, but they are kinda way less powerful than a Bene Gesserit who takes much less spice but has special breeding and conditioning and trials and rituals to make them actual masters.
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Nov 8, 2021 19:25
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Isn't the Kwizats Haderachs just the guy that can have all the male and female memories? Wasn't that the actual point of the thousands of years of breeding and all the other powers are fake/incidental? Like the mothers could see genetic history all back through all their female ancestors but having male memories was too spooky, so they need to make a special male vessel that that could handle all the male memories without going crazy AND get the female memories, then they would have twice as much memories and presumably be the smartest.
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Nov 9, 2021 17:29
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Martman posted:The Dune wiki makes explicit reference to the differences in genetic memory being strictly tied to the X and Y chromosomes, but I wonder if that was something... "clarified" by Brian. As I recall when Frank starts going off about the "male" and "female" aspects of the universe it sounds much more vague, yin yangish even. I feel like conceptually the idea is Reverend Mothers would have the genetic memory of all the reverend mothers before them, but if you were real cool and good at being a Bene Gesserit that would extend to all your female ancestors all the way back in history. I think the idea is big chosen one specially bred guy would have infinite access to all genetic memory of all types. Limiters off. But like, writing wise it kinda sucked because a bunch of people already had 50% of everyone covered. So the additional "everybody" just ended up being "well, men I guess"
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Nov 9, 2021 18:42
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Georgia Peach posted:Ok, I learned in this thread the Fremen are bribing the guild to keep satellites from spying on them. Why wouldn't the guild spy on them themselves, given that the planet is the source of their power? I'd keep an eye on it at all times. I would imagine they wouldn't take well to showing up one day and going, "Oh, look, a cool terraforming project, huh." I feel like the actual answer is "satellites had been invented when dune was written but not enough anyone was thinking about them in terms modern audiences do"
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Nov 10, 2021 15:47
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Everyone in dune universe communicates through slow in person messengers and cameras/recordings do seem to exist but there is no apparent culture of anyone recording things or most places having security cameras or anything, so as long as you are on a far away planet you can basically do anything then say "nuh uh, that didn't happen" then everyone just has to go 'welp, no way to know I guess!"
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Nov 23, 2021 16:18
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Alchenar posted:Nope because there are things called Truthsayers who are human lie detectors. They exist, like recording exist, but like 99% of what everyone is doing in dune is sneaking around doing stuff, There is a large element that as long as you do stuff kinda out of the way no one will ever know or care how it happened.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:15
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I'm pretty happy with both those cuts - the shield/laser interaction is a weirdly specific bit of technobabble that necessitates a whole load of other questions (why they aren't used for suicide attacks, why some people are reckless enough to use them to clear rubble, why they aren't nevertheless used to shoot down un-shielded Fremen craft). It's a distraction from the real meat of the story. It doesn't though, a major factor in dune is everyone having very strong cultural opinions on things, trained from birth and enforced with violence. No one likes computers, everyone in the universe has agreed to this. Nuclear bombs are seen as a sin beyond all reason and no one would use one. etc. everyone knows you simply DO NOT use lasguns in a way that might explode. It's simply wrong, everyone knows that. Big parts of the story are based on these absolutes then one guy going "yeah, but what if I didn't do that!" and everyone being super shocked as they run circles around everyone with a fixed view of how things are and have to be.
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Dec 1, 2021 17:36
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