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skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


HD DAD posted:

Enterprise season 4 is only a sophomore in high school at this point.

Ent S4 is still bad. It’s better than the first three seasons and if Ent had started from a point like that, it might have eventually turned into a good show. But unfortunately it was just one of those cases where they were allowed to go for broke at the end because it didn’t matter, the show was doomed in the back room whatever they did. I don’t particularly like its nostalgia baiting with stuff like the augments either. Disco is frequently guilty of this too. A little of it works (DS9 strikes a good balance of callbacks to older material) but too much at once just gets sad.

Disco almost managed to have a half decent S2 but in the end failed because the showrunner change meant they were forced to tie together two essentially unrelated stories however they could. I have some hope for S3 though.

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MichiganCubbie
Dec 11, 2008

I love that I have an erection...

...that doesn't involve homeless people.


Rhyno posted:

It has Michelle Yeoh.

It's a shame that they had to do the season one stuff that they did, because Captain Georgiou on the Shenzhou with Burham, Saru, Tyler as a normal human, Tilly, Stamets and Culber and everyone and you'd have a solid show.

Hell, make Lorca first officer, move Burham to Science or Ops and you have a really solid crew there, especially with the support crew from season two starting to come into their own. Just make the ship a normal ship and take out the whole Klingon War thing.

Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Come play my CYOA!

Save your reality from the Constructors... then save all the rest of them.


Andorians we're good in Enterprise. More Shran, that's a plan.

MichiganCubbie
Dec 11, 2008

I love that I have an erection...

...that doesn't involve homeless people.


Brawnfire posted:

Andorians we're good in Enterprise. More Shran, that's a plan.

If only we got season 5's regular crew member Shran.

Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Come play my CYOA!

Save your reality from the Constructors... then save all the rest of them.


MichiganCubbie posted:

If only we got season 5's regular crew member Shran.

I seriously think that would have saved the whole mess.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Make Jeffery Combs the captain of the Discovery. Not a character, a future clone of Jeffery Combs. Every ship movie night is Reanimator.

MichiganCubbie
Dec 11, 2008

I love that I have an erection...

...that doesn't involve homeless people.


Brawnfire posted:

I seriously think that would have saved the whole mess.

There were a lot of changes planned that would have helped. Starting the integration of Starfleet with other planets' defense forces would have been really cool. Make T'Pol a starfleet officer. Bring a Tellarite on board! Put some humans onto Vulcan and Andorian ships. Start the Romulan war up proper, without ever seeing them. Romulans just don't use viewscreens with enemies. That refit version of Enterprise that would bring it more in line with proto-TOS. There was a lot coming in.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


MichiganCubbie posted:

Make T'Pol a starfleet officer.

No can do, was The First Vulcan In Starfleet so now everyone has to work around that for their half dozen prequels. Tbh the writers were already kind of fudging that by having T’pol on board at all, but she was the best character on the show so I’m not gonna complain.

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013


Rhyno posted:

It has Michelle Yeoh.

I'm sad that she didn't get to act as her normal non-Hitler character for more than about 25 minutes.

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013


skasion posted:

No can do, was The First Vulcan In Starfleet so now everyone has to work around that for their half dozen prequels. Tbh the writers were already kind of fudging that by having T’pol on board at all, but she was the best character on the show so I’m not gonna complain.

I thought Tpol did join Starfleet as a commissioned officer by season 4?

MichiganCubbie
Dec 11, 2008

I love that I have an erection...

...that doesn't involve homeless people.


Thom12255 posted:

I thought Tpol did join Starfleet as a commissioned officer by season 4?

Maybe the technicality is that Spock was the first officer to go through Starfleet Academy?

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013


Also Discovery shows a Vulcan Admiral so I think the writers don't actually care much about Spock being the first.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Thom12255 posted:

I thought Tpol did join Starfleet as a commissioned officer by season 4?

She gets breveted in after she quits Vulcan High Command over the Xindi thing

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



It doesn't really make any sense that Starfleet was around for so long with no Vulcans so probably best to just ignore Spock being the first.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


marktheando posted:

It doesn't really make any sense that Starfleet was around for so long with no Vulcans so probably best to just ignore Spock being the first.

Sure it does. Starfleet is a human organization. Vulcans had their own organization that was eventually superseded by it.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Maybe if they hadn't made a bunch of bullshit prequel crap this wouldn't be an issue. I have no idea why they've only every decided to go backwards after DS9

Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Come play my CYOA!

Save your reality from the Constructors... then save all the rest of them.


skasion posted:

Sure it does. Starfleet is a human organization. Vulcans had their own organization that was eventually superseded by it.

Ah, Yel-Halitra

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



skasion posted:

Sure it does. Starfleet is a human organization. Vulcans had their own organization that was eventually superseded by it.

There was an all-Vulcan crew federation ship in TOS, they all joined starfleet after Spock?

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


zoux posted:

Maybe if they hadn't made a bunch of bullshit prequel crap this wouldn't be an issue. I have no idea why they've only every decided to go backwards after DS9

Risk aversion

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


marktheando posted:

There was an all-Vulcan crew federation ship in TOS, they all joined starfleet after Spock?

Sure, why not? Spock’s been in Starfleet for quite a while by TOS.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Google Image Results for
"Sexy Guy Gardner"


Because Lucas made prequels and people love prequels right?

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



marktheando posted:

There was an all-Vulcan crew federation ship in TOS, they all joined starfleet after Spock?

This was apparently a thing. There's an all-Vulcan crew in one of the DS9 episodes.

Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Come play my CYOA!

Save your reality from the Constructors... then save all the rest of them.


Rhyno posted:

Because Lucas made prequels and people love prequels right?

I really hate that they did that. I always sort of enjoyed the conceit of the Star Wars chronicle being in media res for some unseen, larger story cycle. Lucas really undercut his own storytelling technique with the prequels.

Croatoan
Jun 24, 2005

I am inevitable.
ROBBLE GROBBLE


For anyone that wanna say there's been no good star trek since TNG please go watch the two part season finale + season opener Time's Arrow. What a dog turd. The Mark Twain character sucked in the 90s and sucks even harder now.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Google Image Results for
"Sexy Guy Gardner"


Yeah, there's plenty of bad TNG. But the highs are so loving high that we tend to forget about them.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



Croatoan posted:

For anyone that wanna say there's been no good star trek since TNG please go watch the two part season finale + season opener Time's Arrow. What a dog turd. The Mark Twain character sucked in the 90s and sucks even harder now.

That's one of the best TNG episodes though?

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

The future? You mean like flying cars? Hotels on the moon? Tang?


Grimey Drawer

Rhyno posted:

Yeah, there's plenty of bad TNG. But the highs are so loving high that we tend to forget about them.

Blessed is the man who can just forget “Code of Honor” and ”The Loss”.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003





The only thing that was said about Spock being first is that his mother described him as the first of "his kind" in Starfleet, I believe. Easy enough to say he was the first human/Vulcan, especially given that Immunity Syndrome established entire ships full of Vulcans in Starfleet during TOS.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Google Image Results for
"Sexy Guy Gardner"


Big Mean Jerk posted:

Blessed is the man who can just forget “Code of Honor” and ”The Loss”.

Watching "the Inner Light" does a lot towards clouding the memories of the poo poo episodes.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Croatoan posted:

For anyone that wanna say there's been no good star trek since TNG please go watch the two part season finale + season opener Time's Arrow. What a dog turd. The Mark Twain character sucked in the 90s and sucks even harder now.

Season 7 was, in fact, among the worst seasons of the whole show. This is a mild take.

Here's a hot one: All Good Things is overrated

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal

TNG season 7 is basically Voyager season 0.

Hotter take: Masks is TNG top 10 material.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Google Image Results for
"Sexy Guy Gardner"


zoux posted:

Here's a hot one: All Good Things is overrated

this is why nobody liked you in high school

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Masks could have been great. You can tell Menosky wasn’t satisfied with it because he basically did a cheaper version of it over again on DS9, but unfortunately it was even worse.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



MikeJF posted:

The only thing that was said about Spock being first is that his mother described him as the first of "his kind" in Starfleet, I believe. Easy enough to say he was the first human/Vulcan.

Ah I was wondering what the actual source of that was, I couldn't remember and memory alpha was failing me.

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Blessed is the man who can just forget “Code of Honor” and ”The Loss”.

I want to add 'The Child' to this list of episodes not to bother watching before Picard.

HD DAD posted:

Hotter take: Masks is TNG top 10 material.

I wouldn't go that far, but it's a good episode.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003





marktheando posted:

Ah I was wondering what the actual source of that was, I couldn't remember and memory alpha was failing me.


I might even have misremembered that, actually. It's possible not even that was ever said. I'm not sure. But I do recall it was never definitively said he was first, that was just a piece of fanon that got around.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

MikeJF posted:

The only thing that was said about Spock being first is that his mother described him as the first of "his kind" in Starfleet, I believe. Easy enough to say he was the first human/Vulcan, especially given that Immunity Syndrome established entire ships full of Vulcans in Starfleet during TOS.

Do you know where it says that? In Journeg to Babel, Amanda just says, about Sarek's opposition to Spock joining Starfleet "Vulcans believe that peace should not depend on force."

Croatoan
Jun 24, 2005

I am inevitable.
ROBBLE GROBBLE


All Good Things was great but they just had to have an enterprise upgrade with a third nacelle.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



Croatoan posted:

All Good Things was great but they just had to have an enterprise upgrade with a third nacelle.
It’s loving great

Retrowave Joe
Jul 20, 2001
Be heroes.

I still have that transformer somewhere in a box. 13-year old me loved the extra nacelle and phaser cannon. 39-year old me wouldn’t mind seeing it again as an example of where Starfleet has gone kinda nuts with their militarization.

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Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

The future? You mean like flying cars? Hotels on the moon? Tang?


Grimey Drawer

HD DAD posted:

TNG season 7 is basically Voyager season 0.

Hotter take: Masks is TNG top 10 material.

I love Masks because it has that same sort of intensely weird “TOS Season 4” vibe as the first couple seasons.

Give me weird poo poo that misses the mark over boring crap like The Masterpiece Society any day.

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