|
Snorb posted:Yeah, but at least we got the Sovereign, Akira, Defiant, Saber, Steamrunner, and Norway as compensation (before someone at Paramount lost the CGI model of it.) To be fair I don't think that the Norway was much of a loss.
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2025 15:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2025 14:20 |
|
|
It was the ugliest of those new ship designs
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2025 15:30
|
|
|
Jean-Luc turn on your drat monitor!
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2025 15:35
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:It was the ugliest of those new ship designs Although the Star Trek Online redesign's quite nice (if you tweak it to turn off the dark stripes). Gives the ship a coherent concept to the design with the single arc outline. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2025 16:02
|
|
|
That ship looks like the Federation uses it to reseal it's bags of space-bread.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 03:48
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:That ship looks like the Federation uses it to reseal it's bags of space-bread. This is how it looked in First Contact: 
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 04:06
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:This is how it looked in First Contact: I really do appreciate the work that the people at Cryptic put into giving the Norway a hero-quality makeover: https://www.deviantart.com/enethrin/art/Norway-Class-Starship-Dorsal-Beauty-Shot-934637073 https://www.deviantart.com/enethrin/art/Norway-Class-Starship-High-Resolution-934637107
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 07:17
|
|
|
Eh, I've always kinda liked the Norway, glad to see them trying to salvage the lost files. I actually don't care for the STO revision all that much, though it could be a skin setting that could make all the difference there . edit: I'm all about Probert's Narendra in STO tho, being my daily driver
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 09:56
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:This is how it looked in First Contact: Hah, I think they used the exact same model in Armada 2. It certainly looks like mid 2000s pc game graphics.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 14:59
|
|
|
Those two struts attached to the main body look like ideal weak spots to fire at. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 15:08
|
|
|
Man whoever designated the Norway class must have had a really lovely time in Oslo or something. What an rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 15:08
|
|
|
I've always imagined the Norway was designed to sit on the ground for long periods.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 16:27
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Those two struts attached to the main body look like ideal weak spots to fire at. In fairness, that is a design flaw shared by almost every Star Fleet design. Except the Defiant. I assume the Intrepid's hinge is probably pretty vulnerable. Gotta send out the lower deckers to WD-40 it pretty often too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 16:52
|
|
|
Look, you may as well build with cool looking structural defects when all your enemies' projectiles are massive explosives that'll sink you on a direct hit anywhere. The problem is on this ship they're not cool looking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 16:58
|
|
|
The metal in the pylons isn't holding the nacelles on, it's all held together with forcefields, the structural frame is just there to guide the SIF and the hull's job is to make it look cool
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 17:54
|
|
|
So like the 33rd Century Disco then 
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 18:08
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Those two struts attached to the main body look like ideal weak spots to fire at. Survivorship bias actually indicates that those are the strongest parts of the ship, actually!
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 18:11
|
|
|
Gollom posted:Gotta send out the lower deckers to WD-40 it pretty often too. Surely they'll be up to WD-47 by then
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 19:22
|
|
|
You're going to actually want a surface electrostatic polarization treatment for proper movement, WD-47 doesn't actually polarize the fields but the Brownian motion it induces in the material will temporarily cause a lower coefficient of friction between the contact surfaces. It's temporary and you'll be right back to needing a proper polarizer in a few weeks anyhow
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 19:37
|
|
|
Plate that poo poo with worthless gold for a friction-free experience.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 19:50
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:Look, you may as well build with cool looking structural defects when all your enemies' projectiles are massive explosives that'll sink you on a direct hit anywhere. The problem is on this ship they're not cool looking. Photon torpedoes: as seen on screen, guided missiles that hit with a little whoomphy fireball and if you're lucky might shake your target enough to knock people to the floor. Of all things, Battle Beyond The Stars is probably the closest to showing what something that powerful blowing up near you would be like during a space battle.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2025 23:42
|
|
|
In The Undiscovered Country, the torpedoes feel like cannonballs the way they hit into the Enterprise during that final battle with Chang's special cloaked Bird of Prey. Like one of them goes through the hull and into the big dining reception area we see at the beginning of the movie where the Klingon delegation comes onboard.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 00:51
|
|
|
Small Strange Bird posted:Photon torpedoes: in-universe, guided missiles with a matter-antimatter warhead that has an explosive yield of about 50 megatons, the equivalent of the most powerful bomb ever detonated in human history to date. Probably the most accurate depiction of the power of the weapons is when that Tal Shiar - Obsidian Order fleet bombards the Founders' old homeworld and the tactical officer reports something like 30% of the planet's crust destroyed by the opening volley
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 00:58
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Plate that poo poo with worthless gold for a friction-free experience. You'll want to use LD-37 for that, though. If there's a single atom of latinum in your plating, scavengers will be all over it the second you look away.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 01:12
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Hah, I think they used the exact same model in Armada 2. It certainly looks like mid 2000s pc game graphics.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 02:33
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Hah, I think they used the exact same model in Armada 2. It certainly looks like mid 2000s pc game graphics. The Norway wasn't in Armada or Armada 2, neither was the Saber. Only the Akira and Steamrunner made the cut, but they were also about as janky as the movie-quality Norway model. Knormal posted:I'm sure that is the model from some game. Not even a background ship CGI would be that low-poly and poorly textured. That's a model someone's simplified to render quickly on a Pentium I. No, that was the actual movie model used in First Contact. To the point where most of the pictures of it in the Eaglemoss magazine that came with the Norway model were renders Eaglemoss themselves created of the Norway, and then the back half of the book is just costume concept art from First Contact because they ran out of stuff to say about the Norway by page 5. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Apr 13, 2025 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 02:48
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:The Norway wasn't in Armada or Armada 2, neither was the Saber. Only the Akira and Steamrunner made the cut, but they were also about as janky as the movie-quality Norway model. The Norway was used in a mod[edit]For Armada 2, I think! The Saber too. I remember using them both in game. Also the Intrepid, which had poorly inserted lines of Janeway saying "Set a course.........for home" cut from whatever episode every time you ordered it to move. None of them were the original CGI models though. Your GeForce 2 was not going to render those models on its lonesome no matter how primitive the appear now. Gollom fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Apr 13, 2025 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 03:39
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:No, that was the actual movie model used in First Contact. To the point where most of the pictures of it in the Eaglemoss magazine that came with the Norway model were renders Eaglemoss themselves created of the Norway, and then the back half of the book is just costume concept art from First Contact because they ran out of stuff to say about the Norway by page 5.  
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 07:37
|
|
|
With the small size of the render the window location may have looked off just because of the small number of pixels, especially if the window light was blooming. Although It's possible that render was of what the DS9 FX crew at muse were able to import: they had a bunch of issues importing the First Contact models and some precision was lost. For example, this was ILM's render of their First Contact Saber model:  And this is what Muse ended up with. You can see there was lot of distortion at the front and they lost things like the bay forcefield glows. (Also I think ILM might have had a thing that randomised the window lights on or off and Muse just got them on). And I suspect there was some tint information lost as well as a bunch of other material information, etc.  In general though the model ships in First Contact were surprisingly low detail. The Akira was done for hero quality, and then the Steamrunner and Saber were much lower, and the Norway was worst detail. (The artist who made them: "And as far as the CG model's life, these were VERY low res models, especially the Norway-class"). Pretty sure they didn't have multiple quality models for anything but the Sovereign. nine-gear crow posted:No, that was the actual movie model used in First Contact. To the point where most of the pictures of it in the Eaglemoss magazine that came with the Norway model were renders Eaglemoss themselves created of the Norway, Although that's the case with much of the Eaglemoss stuff. It's kinda a pity in some ways they get used as reference, because they were often pretty loose with their new models. The Saber totally lost its torpedo launchers, the Centaur lost a bunch of detail and got completely different proportions, the Steamrunner lost its front shuttlebays, etc. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Apr 13, 2025 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 08:39
|
|
|
Photon torpedoes seemed to get weaker as the show went on. I recall in early TNG, a single torpedo would obliterate any unshielded craft.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 12:44
|
|
|
They're just as strong as they need to be. The Bird of Prey in Generations gets spectacularly taken out by a single torpedo, and the Enterprise-D seems to be taken out by two torpedoes and 2-5 disruptor shots.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 15:42
|
|
|
Small Strange Bird posted:Photon torpedoes: in-universe, guided missiles with a matter-antimatter warhead that has an explosive yield of about 50 megatons, the equivalent of the most powerful bomb ever detonated in human history to date. That does pose a rather interesting point... ...given that photon torpedoes use a matter/antimatter reaction, and it's proven that you need a LOT of power and resources to keep antimatter from contacting matter...why aren't there examples of them just randomly having containment failures and cooking off in ship's magazines? And I could've sworn that at least one time in Voyager it was mentioned the yields could scale into the "isotons." If anything, that sounds like a Lower Decks job: "All I do is monitor a screen all day, waiting to see if one of our racked torpedoes is about to kill us all." BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 13, 2025 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 16:10
|
|
|
Small Strange Bird posted:Photon torpedoes: in-universe, guided missiles with a matter-antimatter warhead that has an explosive yield of about 50 megatons, the equivalent of the most powerful bomb ever detonated in human history to date. Explosions in space re: destructive power is not comparable to explosions in atmo, though. The yield of a bomb is based on the pressure wave it generates. There's no pressure in space. So the destructive power of a photon torpedo in space would mainly be based on the radiation it generates and whatever kinetic force the massive particles it shoots out in the direction of the target which wouldn't be much when you're using a matter/anti-matter annihilation reaction unless that's being used to fire something akin to a slug.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 16:25
|
|
|
Increasing the yield of my photon torpedoes by filling them with ball bearings
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 16:49
|
|
|
Where do you guys think those rocks actually come from on exploding bridges? They arent part of the ship, that would be stupid.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 16:53
|
|
|
The rocks are ballast to keep the ship from tipping over.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 16:55
|
|
|
Didn't one of the Lower Decks episodes drop some technobabble about there being some kind of rock layer inside the walls for some purpose?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 17:16
|
|
|
Slashrat posted:Didn't one of the Lower Decks episodes drop some technobabble about there being some kind of rock layer inside the walls for some purpose? https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cordry_rock
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 17:26
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:In The Undiscovered Country, the torpedoes feel like cannonballs the way they hit into the Enterprise during that final battle with Chang's special cloaked Bird of Prey. Like one of them goes through the hull and into the big dining reception area we see at the beginning of the movie where the Klingon delegation comes onboard. That is probably the single coolest space battle shot in all of Star Trek. It was so popular that in Klingon Academy, they made ship models take damage just so you can see that happen. Gollom posted:The Norway was used in a mod[edit]For Armada 2, I think! The Saber too. I remember using them both in game. Also the Intrepid, which had poorly inserted lines of Janeway saying "Set a course.........for home" cut from whatever episode every time you ordered it to move. Thats probably why I remember the Norway in Armada 2, that mod.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 17:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2025 14:20 |
|
|
I fanwank that torpedos are shaped detonations and generally discharge almost all of their energy directly into the shields of the other ship.BIG HEADLINE posted:...given that photon torpedoes use a matter/antimatter reaction, and it's proven that you need a LOT of power and resources to keep antimatter from contacting matter...why aren't there examples of them just randomly having containment failures and cooking off in ship's magazines? You need a lot of control to keep the matter and antimatter from mixing in something like a warp core where you've taken it out of its basic containment vessel and the whole thing is designed around mixing it just right in a continuous flow. In Trek static containment like the standard antimatter storage pods which carry the fuel before it gets reacted are usually some of the most reliable systems we see, the pods have only presented an issue a few times. In the pods they have layers and layers of extra reliable magnetic bottles and and forcefield containment between the antimatter and anything matter. In an armed photon torpedo, the antimatter is placed in a containment vessel designed to interlock with the matter optimally as it explodes, but the antimatter doesn't get moved around its containment vessel, it's just sitting there statically. So it's pretty safe. Also I think maybe they don't arm the torpedos until they need to, so they wouldn't insert the antimatter into the torpedo casings until then? AlternateNu posted:Explosions in space re: destructive power is not comparable to explosions in atmo, though. The yield of a bomb is based on the pressure wave it generates. There's no pressure in space. So the destructive power of a photon torpedo in space would mainly be based on the radiation it generates and whatever kinetic force the massive particles it shoots out in the direction of the target which wouldn't be much when you're using a matter/anti-matter annihilation reaction unless that's being used to fire something akin to a slug. You can amplify that somewhat by wrapping it in carrying mass designed to vaporise and carry energy; that also helps you shape the explosion. FlamingLiberal posted:In The Undiscovered Country, the torpedoes feel like cannonballs the way they hit into the Enterprise during that final battle with Chang's special cloaked Bird of Prey. Like one of them goes through the hull and into the big dining reception area we see at the beginning of the movie where the Klingon delegation comes onboard. IIRC tech fluff stuff somewhere (maybe the novel? Can't quite recall where.) just threw up their hands and said that particular one was a torpedo that had a detonation failure or hadn't been properly armed up with antimatter or something. But yeah torpedo strength in general is very weird in that battle. Excelsior is apparently badly damaged by a single torpedo impact against full shields when they enter the battle. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Apr 13, 2025 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2025 18:08
|
|