Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«243 »
  • Post
  • Reply
HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal

“But what about Charles “Trip” Tucker the Third dying unceremoniously while trying to save the NX-01 from saboteurs?”


Awkwardly long zoom into Frakes’s face, his grin getting wider.


“That was a complete fabrication.”

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Doggles
Apr 22, 2007



FlamingLiberal posted:

And don’t get me started on the whole ‘Seven takes control of the Cube, activates the drones, and they are immediately blown out into space’ thing

And then it exploded crashed.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Gravitas Shortfall posted:

I would have watched an entire series of Weird poo poo Happens At The Borg Cube.

They put forward the fantastic idea this was basically a haunted house investigation in space, and then completely ignored it.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



The_Doctor posted:

They put forward the fantastic idea this was basically a haunted house investigation in space, and then completely ignored it.
Yes I was excited for that and then as the show progressed it was clear that they had no plan for that

Like they acted as though the other doctor Soji talks to is going to be an important character and then she just disappears

When things go to hell on the Cube they also ignore them previously showing all of those Federation scientists on the ship

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

Sometimes I feel like we read far more into the ideas they put forward in these shows in a desperate attempt to look for nuggets of gold in the sea of poo poo.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



Well this is the kind of thing that happens when you rush the scripts and the story arcs

AntherUslessPoster
Feb 12, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 27 days!


Lizard Combatant posted:

It's just made by untalented people.

There's not much more to it than that.

Cockmaster
Feb 24, 2002


FlamingLiberal posted:

God I was so disappointed with how they used that whole concept

Like they teased that there were maybe areas on the ship that the Borg still controlled or that were dangerous and it never comes up again

And don’t get me started on the whole ‘Seven takes control of the Cube, activates the drones, and they are immediately blown out into space’ thing

It was like they were trying to piss off anyone hoping to see any of what made Star Trek what it is.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade



FlamingLiberal posted:

Well this is the kind of thing that happens when you rush the scripts and the story arcs

Like most of Discovery

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal

FlamingLiberal posted:

Well this is the kind of thing that happens when you rush the scripts and the story arcs

Take the time an episode spends in scripting and compare it to the time an episode is in post. I wonder what that ratio would be for TNG-ENT, in comparison with DIS-PIC.

Obviously post is going to be a longer process, but the latter reeks of trying to paper over a flimsy script with shiny spectacle.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



I believe they have said with both Disco/Picard that they were still writing while shooting

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003





Disco in particular they were incredibly rushed because of the changes in showrunners and the desire to rewrite the entire plot arc to match the new vision.

IIRC Fuller's season one had the war being much less urgent and just background at the start, more of lighter border skirmishes that drives Starfleet to new research and development (spore drive) and kills Michael's original captain. That sets up the flip to the Mirror Universe in the third or fourth episode and an extended stay there would've been the main Season One plot arc. We would've met Mirror versions of more characters and explored the differences and choices they made, and the ways in which they were similar people to our characters but made the darker choices. Then after the return, (not sure if the post-return plot would've been season one finale or season two arc), they would've found the skirmishes had turned into a full-blown war that was going badly in their absence, but the lessons they learned about those choices and the road not taken would've informed our crew as they drive towards the outcome.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jul 29, 2020

The Fuzzy Hulk
Nov 22, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT CROSSING THE STREAMS



I wonder when Kirk inevitably shows up on Lower Decks (like on a holodeck or whatever) if he will be voiced by Shatner or John DiMaggio.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


MY GIMMICK IS POSTING GIBBERISH



How dumb do you have to be to set season 1 of your new show in an alternate universe

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003





Early Disco BoP work: wow that is a penis-y head.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003





Arglebargle III posted:

How dumb do you have to be to set season 1 of your new show in an alternate universe

quote:

The thing that really fascinated me in sitting down and crafting the story for Discovery was the human condition. I thought that there are elements in the Mirror Universe that we have seen that have sort of boiled to the broadest ends of the spectrum and everything felt really binary. And what I really wanted to do in setting out was looking at the minutiae of simple decisions that have a cascade effect on our lives. So, it’s not about gold lamé sashes and goatees versus no sash and clean-shaven. It is more about we are at forks in the road every moment of our lives and we either go left or right.

It makes me think of Joe Menosky’s speech in [VOY “Latent Image”], where The Doctor has a Sophie’s choice, he can only save one life. And he chose Ensign Harry Kim versus this other ensign and it is a split-decision and it causes his entire program to unravel because he can’t handle how his choice was always going to cost a life. It was his Kobayashi Maru.

So, there was something in the mistakes made by Burnham in “Battle of the Binary Stars” that had this ripple, but the Mirror Universe was always meant to be an exploration of a small step in a different direction. So, it wasn’t necessarily the Mirror Universe we know from all of the other series. It was something that was closer to our timeline and experience, so you can still recognize the human being and go, “What did I do? How did that seem like a good decision for me in that moment and how do I continue with my life forward?” And everything was a sort of an extrapolation out on that. So, there were things that I wanted the Mirror Universe to function in a narrative exploration of like “Oh gently caress, if I just didn’t do that one thing, everything would be better.” As opposed to, “I don’t recognize that person, I don’t know who that person is, because they are a diametric opposite of who I am.”ck, if I just didn’t do that one thing, everything would be better.’ As opposed to, ‘I don’t recognize that person, I don’t know who that person is, because they are a diametric opposite of who I am.’

Huh, interesting. So it might not have even been the Mirror universe, just a mirror universe.

I genuinely do think that Fuller could've pulled it off and pulled it off well if he lived in a world without network time constraints. He's very good at writing, he's just way too slow.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Jul 29, 2020

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


That is a cool premise that would have worked for season 2, imo

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

MikeJF posted:

Disco in particular they were incredibly rushed because of the changes in showrunners and the desire to rewrite the entire plot arc to match the new vision.

IIRC Fuller's season one had the war being much less urgent and just background at the start, more of lighter border skirmishes that drives Starfleet to new research and development (spore drive) and kills Michael's original captain. That sets up the flip to the Mirror Universe in the third or fourth episode and an extended stay there would've been the main Season One plot arc. We would've met Mirror versions of more characters and explored the differences and choices they made, and the ways in which they were similar people to our characters but made the darker choices. Then after the return, (not sure if the post-return plot would've been season one finale or season two arc), they would've found the skirmishes had turned into a full-blown war that was going badly in their absence, but the lessons they learned about those choices and the road not taken would've informed our crew as they drive towards the outcome.

The lesson the Disco crew learns from their time in the Mirror Universe is 'Nukes are great and win wars'.

Strong Convections
May 8, 2008


Alchenar posted:

The lesson the Disco crew learns from their time in the Mirror Universe is 'Nukes are great and win wars'.
No, the lesson they learned in the mirror universe was that everything Lorca had taught them, and all the pride they took from his compliments on their ability to wage war, would lead them to becoming what the Terrans were. When they come back they don't just follow orders - they don't let their superiors blow up the Klingon homeworld with a nuke.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Strong Convections posted:

No, the lesson they learned in the mirror universe was that everything Lorca had taught them, and all the pride they took from his compliments on their ability to wage war, would lead them to becoming what the Terrans were. When they come back they don't just follow orders - they don't let their superiors blow up the Klingon homeworld with a nuke.

No they just threaten to blow up the Klingon homeworld with a nuke and set up a puppet government who's legitimacy relies entirely on the threat of that nuclear blackmail, which is entirely a different thing.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



They reference the USS Defiant from TOS/the MU Enterprise episode so it is absolutely supposed to be the same MU

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

FlamingLiberal posted:

They reference the USS Defiant from TOS/the MU Enterprise episode so it is absolutely supposed to be the same MU

That's the series we got, though, right, not the Fuller idea.

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal

I kinda love that the Defiant got its own weird mini-plot sprinkled throughout three different series.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



HD DAD posted:

I kinda love that the Defiant got its own weird mini-plot sprinkled throughout three different series.
It’s really weird but I like that it keeps coming up

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

Booyah


Ultra Carp

FlamingLiberal posted:

They reference the USS Defiant from TOS/the MU Enterprise episode so it is absolutely supposed to be the same MU

Oh because the mirror universe can't have mirror universes of its own?

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



There’s kind of been a running thing that the Mirror Universe is more closely connected to the regular one than other alternate realities

Peachfart
Jan 21, 2017



Strong Convections posted:

No, the lesson they learned in the mirror universe was that everything Lorca had taught them, and all the pride they took from his compliments on their ability to wage war, would lead them to becoming what the Terrans were. When they come back they don't just follow orders - they don't let their superiors blow up the Klingon homeworld with a nuke.

I hate this take.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

Peachfart posted:

I hate this take.

Don't worry, none of it mattered because The Enterprise is here now! Look! LOooook! *clobbers you with 1200 dollar eaglemoss replica of the ship you've seen on screen for 30 seconds* consume! consuuuume!

Technowolf
Nov 4, 2009





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX0mcp5LzlA

G-III
Mar 4, 2001



If lower decks displays any characteristics of classic trek: working towards building a more peaceful galaxy, exploration and better understanding, and characters facing/overcoming moral dilemmas in the midst of their low brow yuks, I could go along with it. Am I confident or even mildly hopeful that CBS made such a show? Absolutely not.

galenanorth
May 19, 2016



Tighclops posted:

Don't worry, none of it mattered because The Enterprise is here now! Look! LOooook! *clobbers you with 1200 dollar eaglemoss replica of the ship you've seen on screen for 30 seconds* consume! consuuuume!

it'll make a good replacement for click-clack balls on the desk of a tech CEO

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 



God drat it CBS if you're going to put out a video don't geolock it. Who gives a gently caress if people in Canada watch a loving a Lower Decks preview? Region locking is so loving dumb.

Sorry, little rant there.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


MY GIMMICK IS POSTING GIBBERISH




love the chunky techno guitar riff, really makes you feel the danger that CBS All Access is in

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.





Martytoof posted:

God drat it CBS if you're going to put out a video don't geolock it. Who gives a gently caress if people in Canada watch a loving a Lower Decks preview? Region locking is so loving dumb.

Sorry, little rant there.

✊fight the good fight. I don't know why ctv thinks this was a good idea. don't make it harder to watch your show

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

piratepilates posted:

I don't know why ctv thinks this was a good idea.

CTV decided renaming Space to CTV Sci-Fi was a smart move. They wouldn't know a good idea if it hit them in the face.

Strong Convections
May 8, 2008


Alchenar posted:

No they just threaten to blow up the Klingon homeworld with a nuke and set up a puppet government who's legitimacy relies entirely on the threat of that nuclear blackmail, which is entirely a different thing.
No, they defeat (but not destroy) an enemy that would have destroyed them.
The nuke - which was planned by the admiralty, not the Discovery crew - is given to a woman who truly loves everything Klingon and believes in unification rather than warring amongst themselves, and gave up pretty much everything trying to achieve that. She's the one with the threats - as far as the other Klingons know L'Rell set up the bomb herself.

Importantly L'Rell has the detonator - there is no puppet government. L'Rell will always put Klingon interests first, and the federation does not have the threat of blowing up their homeworld because they no longer have the detonator.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

L'Rell is a Bond Villain.

At the point at which your argument is 'the person threatening to blow up the planet really does have your best interests at heart' you really need to step back a bit and think about what you are doing.

Seemlar
Jun 17, 2002


Strong Convections posted:

No, they defeat (but not destroy) an enemy that would have destroyed them.
The nuke - which was planned by the admiralty, not the Discovery crew - is given to a woman who truly loves everything Klingon and believes in unification rather than warring amongst themselves, and gave up pretty much everything trying to achieve that. She's the one with the threats - as far as the other Klingons know L'Rell set up the bomb herself.

Importantly L'Rell has the detonator - there is no puppet government. L'Rell will always put Klingon interests first, and the federation does not have the threat of blowing up their homeworld because they no longer have the detonator.

Also the detonator is given to L'Rell before they even suggest she use it to take power and unify the empire. There was no blackmail, they unconditionally gave away their leverage first.

Strong Convections
May 8, 2008


Alchenar posted:

L'Rell is a Bond Villain.

At the point at which your argument is 'the person threatening to blow up the planet really does have your best interests at heart' you really need to step back a bit and think about what you are doing.
The point is it's not a puppet government. There's a klingon in charge threatening other klingons. Nobody here is the puppet of the federation.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Strong Convections posted:

The point is it's not a puppet government. There's a klingon in charge threatening other klingons. Nobody here is the puppet of the federation.

She is still the person they chose to give that power to though. The other Klingons don't get a choice about it. She's the one in charge because she's the one the Federation some random Starfleet officers picked.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«243 »