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Threadban Super Deuce if he doesn't chill upon return?
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nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird





Crusader posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYFyOSFOw_o

i vividly remember seeing this commercial back in the 80s

When I was a kid I misheard the word "Trek" in TV ads and thought the show was called "Star Trick", and it kind of bared out because early TNG usually involved the Enterprise crew getting duped by someone or something like a bunch of idiots. So stupid child me was like "Oh yeah, it's Star Trick, because they get tricked all the time."

e: Also that ad. "We come IN PEACE!" / [shot that make it look the Enterprise is immediately destroyed a second later]

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Sep 16, 2020

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Senor Tron
May 25, 2006




nine-gear crow posted:

The Omega Particle was simultaneously one of the stupidest AND scariest things Voyager ever did. I wish we had maybe one more series set in the 24th century before the franchise hit the iceburg with Nemesis and Enterprise because it kind of needed maybe one more episode or so to really explore the implications of what happens you make an Omega and it goes absolutely horrifyingly wrong.

I just read an article that makes a convincing argument that S3 of Discovery might literally be about that.

https://trekmovie.com/2020/09/16/st...in-of-the-burn/

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017





too far

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.





Carbon dioxide posted:

Why do Star Trek ads always show a compilation of phaser shooting?

The ads are always way more violent than the actual show. Do the marketeers think that's what people are looking for in Trek?

This may come as a shock but sex and violence sells.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird





piratepilates posted:

This may come as a shock but sex and violence sells.

B-b-but the purity of Gene Roddenbery's vision!



One second.



Yes? ...REALLY?!

Ahem. I have been informed that Gene Roddenberry was, in fact, a huge sex weirdo.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Carbon dioxide posted:

Why do Star Trek ads always show a compilation of phaser shooting?

The ads are always way more violent than the actual show. Do the marketeers think that's what people are looking for in Trek?
That's just how ads for TV shows are. My favourite example was the ad for an episode of Law & Order: SVU that strongly implied that Detective Stabler's son was going to be involved in a crime and possibly even arrested, but he's in the actual episode for about two minutes and it's completely unrelated to the episode's main plot. They literally just lie to trick people into watching it and hope that they'll like the show enough to keep watching anyway.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird





Tiggum posted:

That's just how ads for TV shows are. My favourite example was the ad for an episode of Law & Order: SVU that strongly implied that Detective Stabler's son was going to be involved in a crime and possibly even arrested, but he's in the actual episode for about two minutes and it's completely unrelated to the episode's main plot. They literally just lie to trick people into watching it and hope that they'll like the show enough to keep watching anyway.

The other end of that spectrum was mid-life , where the promos for the next episode would just flat out spoil the big twists coming up next week. To the point where at one of the network upfronts the head of programming for Fox was called out by a journalist who was basically like "Yo, who edits your TV promos, because whoever does the ones for 24 deserves to be fired."

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 



Good episode!

Mariner bungling things was really kind of charming until the reveal, so I’m kind of disappointed that this wasn’t the episode where she finally realizes she’s not amazing and just chills out a little, but meh, I don’t want to re-tread old things I’ve come to grips with.

Plots have been pretty on lately, really enjoyed the away missions and rescues.

Appreciate that they tried to pair Boimler and Tendi this week and I think it was fine, just not a super interesting B-plot

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


I was glad that Mariner was finally going to suffer some consequences but then of course it turned out that she'd been failing deliberately and actually is exactly as awesome as she thinks she is.

Tendi's wild misconceptions about dogs were kind of amusing though.

Super Deuce
May 25, 2006
TOILETS
Oh, I like the smell of my own dumps.

Tiggum posted:

I was glad that Mariner was finally going to suffer some consequences but then of course it turned out that she'd been failing deliberately and actually is exactly as awesome as she thinks she is.

Tendi's wild misconceptions about dogs were kind of amusing though.

Mariner’s classmate is a captain who thought Mariner would be a Captain first... are they 40? At least? They really wrote themselves an annoying character in every aspect.

The “freak” ship would have been good if not for constantly calling everyone freaks. Why are we laughing at bullies in Star Trek? It’s so antithetical to the source material. Every scene there felt mean.

I knew a Threshold reference was coming. I was wrong about how on the nose it would be. They actually did it okay. Just a lizard they were confused about. Nix the Mariner plot, boost the Tendi dog to a full B, make Boimler the full A rather than sharing with Tendi and you get an okay episode. First one so far. Mariner brings it down as usual.

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006




College Slice

Everyone waiting for Mariner to suddenly beef it completely are just gonna keep being disappointed. She’s competent. I thought it was weird and forced that suddenly she was a doofus for plot reasons, so I was relieved that it was an act. I hate it when shows have characters act suddenly stupid entirely for plot reasons (*cough* The Flash *cough*).

Mariner’s problem is never going be that she’s not as awesome as she thinks she is. We’ve established that her problem is that she’s convinced she’s the only one who’s awesome, and that her way of being awesome is the only one.

Also, I loved The Dog and that we did actually get to see a bit of Boimler/Tendi interaction. “Boim us up!” was great, too.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 



Phylodox posted:

Everyone waiting for Mariner to suddenly beef it completely are just gonna keep being disappointed. She’s competent.

Agree w/your post, but not necessarily WAITING for Mariner to cheese it, rather that I'd come to accept this is the way she's going to be and then suddenly it was all "oh wow no way! they're actually going to give her a reason to be more humb--oh, nevermind"

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006




College Slice

If Mariner learns to be more humble, it’ll be because she realizes she’s not unique in her competence, not because she’s suddenly incompetent.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 



Well, I mean, in an ideal show yeah. On a show that's just getting off the ground and has exhibited some shaky writing here and there -- let's just say it shouldn't have surprised me either way

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do



Nolan North almost had me fooled, then he started shouting and I was like "oh hey I know that gargley-scream"

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006




College Slice

Hasn’t he been in every episode so far? Pretty sure he was the “authorization Mariner-8” guy.

Laughing Zealot
Oct 10, 2012




Was that Jennifer Hale as the vulcan officer?

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 



Phylodox posted:

Hasn’t he been in every episode so far? Pretty sure he was the “authorization Mariner-8” guy.

His wiki says at least two episodes. I'd be fine with regular recurrence

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Phylodox posted:

We’ve established that her problem is that she’s convinced she’s the only one who’s awesome, and that her way of being awesome is the only one.
That would only be a problem if there were ever any consequences for her, which there aren't. From her perspective she has no problems, and that's the problem with her as a character.

I had thought, in this episode, that she was trying to do things the right way and loving up because she's never had to actually follow the rules before, and that she'd finally have a weakness that mattered to her because it diminished her in the eyes of her friend. But nope, she was just pretending to be incompetent and it actually doesn't matter whether she has to do things by the book or not, she's just too cool for Starfleet.

Oh, and as well as raising but not answering the question of why Mariner is even in Starfleet, this episode also made me wonder why Boimler's in Starfleet as well. As soon as he got the opportunity to go to the vacation planet he jumped on it and even wanted to stay when he was back to normal. Can't he just go live in luxury any time he wants? Isn't that the whole point of being in the Federation? If he's that keen to get out of his job and live the easy life, why doesn't he just... do that?

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006




College Slice

Why does Mariner need to have some tragic weakness or dramatic flaw? She’s hyper-competent and self-assured. That’s her character. Her story isn’t about realizing she’s not as awesome as she thinks she is. She’s exactly as awesome as she thinks she is. Her issue is that she’s got some obvious but as yet unexplored issues with authority in general and Starfleet specifically, probably tied to her upbringing as a navy brat. This episode pretty explicitly spelled her arc out; “I could very easily advance through the ranks, but I’ve got some issues I need to figure out first.”

And Boimler was horny for the nurses.

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.



Toilet Rascal

Gonna lol when they reveal Mariner is like 35

TomR
Apr 1, 2003
I both own and operate a pirate ship.

That dog was so over the top. A+

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

For a moment I thought we were genuinely going to get some Boimler - Rutherford interaction but then Rutherford just disappeared for the rest of the Episode. Likewise Tendi gets on the spaceship with Boimer and isn't seen again until they reach their destination. Why is this show so allergic to having any of the main cast intrude on each other's stories?

e: Mariner continuing to be unlikable is a problem. The show acknowledging openly that Mariner shouldn't want to be in Starfleet but then not actually giving Mariner any character growth with regards to this issue is a problem. Boimler wanting a bit of vacation time is not a problem.

None of the characters learning any lessons or experiencing any growth is a problem.

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Sep 17, 2020

Quinton
Apr 25, 2004



Good fun, especially The Dog.

Weirdly the one thing about this episode that really distracted me was the entire away team losing or discarding their helmets with no explanation, halfway through their mission. Felt like a weird large-scale animation error.

Super Deuce
May 25, 2006
TOILETS
Oh, I like the smell of my own dumps.

Alchenar posted:

For a moment I thought we were genuinely going to get some Boimler - Rutherford interaction but then Rutherford just disappeared for the rest of the Episode. Likewise Tendi gets on the spaceship with Boimer and isn't seen again until they reach their destination. Why is this show so allergic to having any of the main cast intrude on each other's stories?

e: Mariner continuing to be unlikable is a problem. The show acknowledging openly that Mariner shouldn't want to be in Starfleet but then not actually giving Mariner any character growth with regards to this issue is a problem. Boimler wanting a bit of vacation time is not a problem.

None of the characters learning any lessons or experiencing any growth is a problem.

It's the Seinfeld approach. With a universe built on character growth and development, morals and lessons, they went with the nobody ever learns or changes mentality.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Mariner openly admits for the first time on the show that she knows she's good at her job, but that she intentionally stays in Lower Decks as she figures out how to be a good captain on her own terms, that's character growth/development in my book.

Final Fantasy Football
Oct 3, 2006



Tiggum posted:

Oh, and as well as raising but not answering the question of why Mariner is even in Starfleet, this episode also made me wonder why Boimler's in Starfleet as well. As soon as he got the opportunity to go to the vacation planet he jumped on it and even wanted to stay when he was back to normal. Can't he just go live in luxury any time he wants? Isn't that the whole point of being in the Federation? If he's that keen to get out of his job and live the easy life, why doesn't he just... do that?

Phylodox posted:

And Boimler was horny for the nurses.

Boimler does seem like spending the weekend with him would be a bit much

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Snow Cone Capone posted:

Mariner openly admits for the first time on the show that she knows she's good at her job, but that she intentionally stays in Lower Decks as she figures out how to be a good captain on her own terms, that's character growth/development in my book.

No that's not growth, that's just the show trying to justify the status quo.

Admitting a character needs to grow is not growth

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Alchenar posted:

No that's not growth, that's just the show trying to justify the status quo.

Admitting a character needs to grow is not growth

If the show was showing us, without the character herself realizing it, sure. But somebody finally admitting that they're intentionally slacking in order to work on being a better leader in their own way, that to me is growth and development both in a TV show character and a person IRL.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Snow Cone Capone posted:

If the show was showing us, without the character herself realizing it, sure. But somebody finally admitting that they're intentionally slacking in order to work on being a better leader in their own way, that to me is growth and development both in a TV show character and a person IRL.

That's been Mariner since episode 1 though. We get it. That's the character.

To be 7 episodes in and have no character development is the show saying 'this is it and we aren't even going to try'.

e: this episode also wasn't Mariner coming to come kind of self-realisation either. She's always known this about herself, this was just another character forcing her to say it. Mariner did not learn anything about herself this episode.

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Sep 17, 2020

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Alchenar posted:

That's been Mariner since episode 1 though. We get it. That's the character.

To be 7 episodes in and have no character development is the show saying 'this is it and we aren't even going to try'.

e: this episode also wasn't Mariner coming to come kind of self-realisation either. She's always known this about herself, this was just another character forcing her to say it. Mariner did not learn anything about herself this episode.

A lot of people know things about themselves deep down, and getting them to admit, on their own, that this is the case, is personal growth.

e: Mariner since episode 1 has been "hey Mariner why are you still down here?" "because uhhhh carbon-scraping races! Warp core noises! Lower Decks whoooooo!" This is the first time she's actually come out and been "eh you know what it is is I'm really just doing my thing while I formulate a plan for the future" and that's a jumping-off point for later episodes to focus, now and then, on "Mariner learns an unexpected lesson about being a good captain" or whatever.

Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Sep 17, 2020

ashpanash
Apr 9, 2008

I can see when you are lying.



I kind of wonder if Mariner might have been in a "thine own self" situation, had to order someone to their death, and has been afraid of command ever since.

Super Deuce
May 25, 2006
TOILETS
Oh, I like the smell of my own dumps.

In TNG they explicitly tell Riker they won’t wait forever. He was already the commander of the flagship at the time. Mariner is at ~Riker’s age at that time but a demoted ensign. She really thinks she’ll be able to be a captain still? She’ll get laughed at like Picard in Tapestry.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




ashpanash posted:

I kind of wonder if Mariner might have been in a "thine own self" situation, had to order someone to their death, and has been afraid of command ever since.

It would make sense, I think. In the episode with Boimler's girlfriend, Mariner's paranoia is played for laughs, but her character's motivations are 100% serious. She's seen some poo poo, and she's extremely protective of her crew.

Super Deuce posted:

In TNG they explicitly tell Riker they won’t wait forever. He was already the commander of the flagship at the time. Mariner is at ~Riker’s age at that time but a demoted ensign. She really thinks she’ll be able to be a captain still? She’ll get laughed at like Picard in Tapestry.

Eh, her age is like super-nebulous so far. Also her mother's a captain and her father's an admiral, so there's probably a little extra sway there on the promotion board.

e: looking forward to the S2 finale where Mariner finally accepts her calling, only to find in the first 5 seconds of the S3 premier that you're right and everyone's like "welp maybe send a subspace call to 10 years ago"

Laughing Zealot
Oct 10, 2012




Does Starfleet have a policy against promoting to a captain position if you're over 35 or something?

I liked the episode and am firmly in the camp that I don't have a problem with her being hyper competitive (almost everyone of the main characters are really in some way). But I think her motivation against getting into higher positions hasn't been explained very well so far.

Edit:

ashpanash posted:

I kind of wonder if Mariner might have been in a "thine own self" situation, had to order someone to their death, and has been afraid of command ever since.

I could believe that this was the real reason, all the other stuff being excuses. But so far the show hasn't implied it in any way sadly.

Laughing Zealot fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Sep 17, 2020

Super Deuce
May 25, 2006
TOILETS
Oh, I like the smell of my own dumps.

Snow Cone Capone posted:

It would make sense, I think. In the episode with Boimler's girlfriend, Mariner's paranoia is played for laughs, but her character's motivations are 100% serious. She's seen some poo poo, and she's extremely protective of her crew.


Eh, her age is like super-nebulous so far. Also her mother's a captain and her father's an admiral, so there's probably a little extra sway there on the promotion board.

e: looking forward to the S2 finale where Mariner finally accepts her calling, only to find in the first 5 seconds of the S3 premier that you're right and everyone's like "welp maybe send a subspace call to 10 years ago"

It’s definitely nebulous. I just mean, she has a classmate already ranked captain. That’s pretty extraordinary. Kirk was 34.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Super Deuce posted:

It’s definitely nebulous. I just mean, she has a classmate already ranked captain. That’s pretty extraordinary. Kirk was 34.

It's so weird that the show straight up acknowledges that Mariner's age is weird (I think in episode 2 Boimler goes "Wait we're the same age, how have you done all this stuff?") and that it's a problem that Mariner is not doing any character growth. But after acknowledging the point, nothing is done about it.

Compare contrast for readers: Archer has a similar issue in that the show is constantly inconsistent between the geopolitical situation and the technology available to the characters (which gets introduced to make stories work). Knowing that this would otherwise be a flaw, the showrunners lean into it and made "What year is this?" a recurring joke. This kind of thing happens in silly cartoon comedies and the good ones know how to deal with it.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Mariner is a Q calling it now please no

TomR
Apr 1, 2003
I both own and operate a pirate ship.

I think the point they are trying to make is that Mariner could be a captain already if she had worked towards that. I kinda feel like a lot of the issues she has with her mother are being missed or discounted by people. They really do explain her character.

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Super Deuce
May 25, 2006
TOILETS
Oh, I like the smell of my own dumps.

TomR posted:

I think the point they are trying to make is that Mariner could be a captain already if she had worked towards that. I kinda feel like a lot of the issues she has with her mother are being missed or discounted by people. They really do explain her character.

Well they outright say that’s what her classmates thought. If they thought that, and one of her classmates is a captain... one captain and one who “should” be from one class in the academy. When Kirk was 34. I guess maybe they’re using the Dominion war as a thing in the background maybe, but even then...

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