Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
Goku?
This poll is closed.
Goku 0 0%
Goku 0 0%
Total: 0 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Post
  • Reply
Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001


Alchenar posted:

They take it right up until the point at which Discovery gets captured (not amazingly, but Tilly's arc for 3 seasons has been 'I'm really nervous and awkward but I want to be a Captain one day' and season 3 follows that up), at which point the show has the main antagonists humiliate Tilly, tell her she was bad at being a captain, and then the story dunks on her hard in order to pivot back to being the Michael Burnham show.

Tilly at least should have gotten a promotion out of that season.

Discovery is an insanely stupid and mean-spirited show

Between Picard and Discovery I'm pretty well convinced that, despite liking Pike and his first officer, there will not be a good Star Trek again any time soon if ever

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Switchblade Switcharoo

Cojawfee posted:

Argyle is finally the chief.

Quite the step up from Bruce's limo driver

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


Epicurius posted:

It seems like TOS didn't really? Like, the core crew of TOS was Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. You had other characters....Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, Chekov, and they got some characterization, but none of them were particularly important or fleshed out. Uhura and Sulu didn't even have first names.

Iíd argue that Scotty is a main-ish character as well, but otherwise youíre right.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




It was a weird choice to just loving poo poo on one of the only good and sympathetic characters on the show, that you've done a pretty good job building up for three seasons. Having her first command be a disaster and something she grows from would maybe save it in S4 but I don't trust the writing crew to be able to think that far ahead.

Putting her in the XO seat and command in the first place was a bizarre choice, but once you've made it, she deserved better than "lol actually you're terrible at this, bye".

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Alchenar posted:

They take it right up until the point at which Discovery gets captured (not amazingly, but Tilly's arc for 3 seasons has been 'I'm really nervous and awkward but I want to be a Captain one day' and season 3 follows that up), at which point the show has the main antagonists humiliate Tilly, tell her she was bad at being a captain, and then the story dunks on her hard in order to pivot back to being the Michael Burnham show.

Tilly at least should have gotten a promotion out of that season.

gently caress dude, I'm constantly glad I never finished season 3. This sounds just loving awful.

Doctor Nutt
Apr 12, 2007

"Even now, Elisabeth is putting her miraculous new body through its paces." -Clovis Bray




apatheticman posted:

Also keep in mind we are only doing ~10 Ep seasons.

Cant really have a Data's cat episode when you have to tell a tight story of how the most special girl in the universe is going to save the world again.

Have they considered that Star Trek doesn't need to have galaxy-threatening stakes in every season? No?

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




I know they're going to find some universe destroying plot to shoehorn into S4, but the setup they already did of Disco as dilithium truckers re-connecting with lost Federation worlds would be way better.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004




Ultra Carp

Doctor Nutt posted:

Have they considered that Star Trek doesn't need to have galaxy-threatening stakes in every season? No?

They considered it, that's why they threatened all sentient life in the universe and the very existence of the entire multiverse

NEXT: the ubermetaomniverse is discovered, and then threatened

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004




Ultra Carp

In Discovery season 4, the turbolift dimension will be threatened by interdimensional sentient elevators with genuine people personalities who find it blasphemous. They will win, forever collapsing turbolifts into a mere series of tubes and thus restoring canon

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





The Bloop posted:

They considered it, that's why they threatened all sentient life in the universe and the very existence of the entire multiverse

NEXT: the ubermetaomniverse is discovered, and then threatened

What's funny is that the whole plot about how the mycelian network being destroyed wiping out all life across the multiverse must mean that it was impossible for that to happen.

If the multiverse consists of all possible realities then if it was possible then at least one universe had the mycelial network be destroyed. And thus since the mycelial network was not destroyed there must not be a universe in which it was possible to have been destroyed. And the universe was never threatened. QED

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004




Ultra Carp

Nitrousoxide posted:

What's funny is that the whole plot about how the mycelian network being destroyed wiping out all life across the multiverse must mean that it was impossible for that to happen.

If the multiverse consists of all possible realities then if it was possible then at least one universe had the mycelial network be destroyed. And thus since the mycelial network was not destroyed there must not be a universe in which it was possible to have been destroyed. And the universe was never threatened. QED

There's nothing that requires even an infinite multiverse must contain all possible states, and it wasn't presented as infinite anyway to my knowledge

The idea that this one organism needs to survive forever in order for sentience to exist is pretty dum dum dum though

xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Stamets could just be wrong about the effects of the destruction of the myceilial network in the mirrorverse.

The JahSepp didn't even mention it in Season 2. Their biggest threat was Culber rubbing tree-bark over himself.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Wheeee posted:

Discovery is an insanely stupid and mean-spirited show

Between Picard and Discovery I'm pretty well convinced that, despite liking Pike and his first officer, there will not be a good Star Trek again any time soon if ever

Strange New Worlds is coming, that's the Captain Pike show. Lower Decks is here and good.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





The Bloop posted:

There's nothing that requires even an infinite multiverse must contain all possible states, and it wasn't presented as infinite anyway to my knowledge

The idea that this one organism needs to survive forever in order for sentience to exist is pretty dum dum dum though

Over an infinite number of rolls, any non-zero probability event must occur. If it doesn't then it it is, by definition, impossible.

Likewise, if our universe is infinite then there will be an infinite number of Earth's out there, and you's out there because there is clearly a non-zero probability that the arrangement of matter that make you up have a non-zero chance to occur.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Nitrousoxide posted:

gently caress dude, I'm constantly glad I never finished season 3. This sounds just loving awful.

There's a really strong sense that the Discovery writers room consists of 3-4 siloed camps who absolutely hate each other and who each use their turn to lead to poo poo on each other's plot threads.

Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001


not all infinities are equal in size despite being infinite

the monkeys on typewriters idea of infinity is not necessarily true

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004




Ultra Carp

Wheeee posted:

not all infinities are equal in size despite being infinite

the monkeys on typewriters idea of infinity is not necessarily true

Yeah I have yet to see anything to convince me that infinity must contain all possibilities

Also, they never said the multiverse was infinite in Trek or had any authority to do so anyway with their limited understanding






I could take the set of "all integers that aren't 3" and that is still an infinite set of integers that doesn't contain all integers, just for a banal example

Typical Pubbie
May 10, 2011


Alchenar posted:

There's a really strong sense that the Discovery writers room consists of 3-4 siloed camps who absolutely hate each other and who each use their turn to lead to poo poo on each other's plot threads.

My assumption was that the showrunners suck at their jobs. Kurtzman is a legendary hack and Paradise wrote for a couple of obscure shows before being given the reigns. There's no one steering the ship.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister



Alchenar posted:

They take it right up until the point at which Discovery gets captured (not amazingly, but Tilly's arc for 3 seasons has been 'I'm really nervous and awkward but I want to be a Captain one day' and season 3 follows that up), at which point the show has the main antagonists humiliate Tilly, tell her she was bad at being a captain, and then the story dunks on her hard in order to pivot back to being the Michael Burnham show.

Tilly at least should have gotten a promotion out of that season.
I mean, Harry Kim was an ensign for 7 years, the requirements must be really strict.

Typical Pubbie posted:

My assumption was that the showrunners suck at their jobs. Kurtzman is a legendary hack and Paradise wrote for a couple of obscure shows before being given the reigns. There's no one steering the ship.
And McMahan loves Trek as much as Kirk loved the Enterprise, and Lower Decks is both cool and good.

Actually wasn't there talk that the Mr. Robot guy is taking over for Picard Season 2? Has that been confirmed anywhere?

Martian
May 29, 2005

They clean me with a Brillo Pad


Grimey Drawer

Epicurius posted:

It seems like TOS didn't really? Like, the core crew of TOS was Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. You had other characters....Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, Chekov, and they got some characterization, but none of them were particularly important or fleshed out. Uhura and Sulu didn't even have first names.

This isn't that different from Enterprise either, where Archer, T'Pol and Trip are clearly the main cast, and Phlox, Reed, Mayweather and Sato are secondary characters. I'm watching it for the first time, am now at early season 4, and I don't really get the Mayweather jokes; I feel Reed is treated worse than him/ignored more so far. It's also a much better show than Discovery, despite it's obvious flaws.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


Reed is definitely treated better than Mayweather. Reed has the shuttlepod episode, Minefield, the pineapple episode, and his rivalry with the MACO dude. Mayweather only has the episode where he goes home to the freighter and... thatís pretty much it.

I guess the stuff with the Earth reporter too, but thatís still only a small subplot in a couple of later episodes.

well why not
Feb 9, 2009





Iím watching a few episodes of Enterprise at the moment itís incredibly relaxed compared to current tv. Itís so dark and grey and sort of quiet. Puts me to sleep.

Also they do not get off of that ship very often. Youíre always in grey rooms.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004




Ultra Carp

In space, no one has cheerful curtains.




We knew more about Sato, Reed, Mayweather, and Phlox halfway through season 1 than we still do about all those interchangeable nobodies in Disco

Tars Tarkas
Apr 13, 2003


Big Mean Jerk posted:

Reed is definitely treated better than Mayweather. Reed has the shuttlepod episode, Minefield, the pineapple episode, and his rivalry with the MACO dude. Mayweather only has the episode where he goes home to the freighter and... thatís pretty much it.

I guess the stuff with the Earth reporter too, but thatís still only a small subplot in a couple of later episodes.

There is almost a whole season where Mayweather gets like 1 line an episode 35 minutes in. Hoshi is only slightly better as her most interesting stuff also happens late season 4 when you find out she was a gambling addict who ran illegal poker games and broke her CO's arm when he tried to bust up a game and got kicked out of Starfleet for that. Imagine that being used as her personality basis besides just being space nervous the first few episodes.

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

Welcome to the machine

Given how everyone keeps ending up in the save loving mirror universe, I'm going with there being exactly two universes in the multiverse. This is possible contradicted by not-god in season 3, but I don't really remember his bullshit because he felt out of place in Discovery.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

I think you could have explained pre-discovery mirror universe with the idea that the first crossing was do to a transporter malfunction. And every crossing after that was based on studying that one malfunction and reproducing it. So before Discovery, they were going to the same mirror universe via the same mechanic.

xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

BonHair posted:

Given how everyone keeps ending up in the save loving mirror universe, I'm going with there being exactly two universes in the multiverse. This is possible contradicted by not-god in season 3, but I don't really remember his bullshit because he felt out of place in Discovery.

There's a time soldier from the Kelvin-verse shown in Discovery.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





BonHair posted:

Given how everyone keeps ending up in the save loving mirror universe, I'm going with there being exactly two universes in the multiverse. This is possible contradicted by not-god in season 3, but I don't really remember his bullshit because he felt out of place in Discovery.

TNG: Parallels

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


Tars Tarkas posted:

There is almost a whole season where Mayweather gets like 1 line an episode 35 minutes in. Hoshi is only slightly better as her most interesting stuff also happens late season 4 when you find out she was a gambling addict who ran illegal poker games and broke her CO's arm when he tried to bust up a game and got kicked out of Starfleet for that. Imagine that being used as her personality basis besides just being space nervous the first few episodes.

Thereís also some kind of history with Archer prior to Broken Bow thatís never explored beyond ďhey come help me with this Klingon thing because weíre friendsĒ in the pilot. They should have made her Archerís confidant instead of Trip. Make Trip the hothead engineer who thinks he knows how to run Archerís fatherís engine better than him instead. Expand Hoshiís linguistic background to include a desire to use that skill for communication with other races and make her Archerís conscience when dealing with his Vulcan racism.

I dunno, Enterprise is just rife with potentially easy fixes that should have been obvious. Like taking Mayweatherís experience literally growing up and spending most of his life in space and making him the Chief Engineer instead of Trip. Or take Reedís family history of strict military service and making him the Helmsman rather than Tactical because he wants to break the cycle and be an explorer first and foremost.

But, hey,

Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Come play my CYOA!

Save your reality from the Constructors... then save all the rest of them.



Mayweather should have been, like, the most important guy on the ship. As you mentioned, he grew up in space, doing the space stuff that was 99% of space stuff for all humans outside warp experiments. He should have known all sorts of day-saving tricks and had connections with weird spacer characters

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004




Ultra Carp

Brawnfire posted:

Mayweather should have been, like, the most important guy on the ship. As you mentioned, he grew up in space, doing the space stuff that was 99% of space stuff for all humans outside warp experiments. He should have known all sorts of day-saving tricks and had connections with weird spacer characters

So, Neelix

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


The Bloop posted:

So, Neelix

On second thought, letís keep Mayweather pointless and boring

Tars Tarkas
Apr 13, 2003


Was doing a rewatch with a friend on twitter recently and came to the conclusion Trip should have been captain and Archer either the engineer or eliminated entirely. There should also be waves of human settlers that were causing trouble (i.e. the people who can't cope with Earth being a socialist utopia and want to go do a capitalism somewhere) that Enterprise had to clean up and would give Travis stuff to do (and I like the chief engineer idea, put him over Archer who can't get the hang of jerry-rigging repairs) and Trip's good ol' boy persona helps clean up the damage that a bunch of space libertarians were doing (though the Vulcans are still smug jerks). Everyone else just bump up the best aspects so they have actual personalities and quirks - Hoshi is more of a hothead who is tempted to go full pirate, up Phlox's animal pals to the nth degree and have his various wives and their husbands show up more often just to weird up the show. Make Reed so secretive they keep finding out everything with him is a lie, hired actors for parents, lies upon lies even he can't keep straight, because there are two Reeds and one is involved in the time wars. Archer is a failson who can't live up to his dad in engineering skill and that explains his anger issues but his friends keep helping him get jobs



That emote is the summary of 3 and 2/3rds seasons of the show which is the saddest thing. There's a point around season 3 where even the cinematography guys get bored of how bad the show looks and start doing weird things, the producers obviously not paying attention and they get bolder in season 4 but still can't hid how bland the sets are.

Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Come play my CYOA!

Save your reality from the Constructors... then save all the rest of them.



The Bloop posted:

So, Neelix

No

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004




Ultra Carp


Ok the unrealized promise of Neelix

I mean, voyager is nothing BUT unrealized promise, so..

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Typical Pubbie posted:

My assumption was that the showrunners suck at their jobs. Kurtzman is a legendary hack and Paradise wrote for a couple of obscure shows before being given the reigns. There's no one steering the ship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SHhySoXDcA#t=1118s

well why not
Feb 9, 2009





Mayweather could be interesting. Itíd be cool to see someone whoís not comfortable being on planets. Contrast that with Hoshi who is space nervous.

From the handful of episodes Iíve seen so far everyone is just kind of staid and flat. Trip and Archer try their best but itís just a very dull experience. Phlox trying hard helps. Malcolm Reed is actually kind of creepy.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Yvonmukluk posted:

I mean, Harry Kim was an ensign for 7 years, the requirements must be really strict.

And McMahan loves Trek as much as Kirk loved the Enterprise, and Lower Decks is both cool and good.

Actually wasn't there talk that the Mr. Robot guy is taking over for Picard Season 2? Has that been confirmed anywhere?

Not Mr. Robot, but the guy behind 12 Monkeys. Either way, a giant improvement over Michael Chabon at least.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

i like cats


They should hand Discovery over to David Cronenberg, that guy gets it.

e: I bet we'd get some real goopy aliens.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001




Big Mean Jerk posted:

Thereís also some kind of history with Archer prior to Broken Bow thatís never explored beyond ďhey come help me with this Klingon thing because weíre friendsĒ in the pilot. They should have made her Archerís confidant instead of Trip. Make Trip the hothead engineer who thinks he knows how to run Archerís fatherís engine better than him instead. Expand Hoshiís linguistic background to include a desire to use that skill for communication with other races and make her Archerís conscience when dealing with his Vulcan racism.

I dunno, Enterprise is just rife with potentially easy fixes that should have been obvious. Like taking Mayweatherís experience literally growing up and spending most of his life in space and making him the Chief Engineer instead of Trip. Or take Reedís family history of strict military service and making him the Helmsman rather than Tactical because he wants to break the cycle and be an explorer first and foremost.

But, hey,

Um, the Southerner and the Vulcan are friends with the Captain, not the Asian!

Do you even Star Trek?

--some UPN executive, probably

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply