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Royal Updog
Sep 26, 2019

Do you ever wonder if there are other planets out there
(source)

Tain reaped again.

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Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Alchenar posted:

Nah Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges makes pretty clear that once you reach a certain seniority of the Admiralty then you get told 'the reason Starfleet intelligence is a bit poo poo is because that's deliberate, these guys are the real deal and you give them whatever the gently caress they want'.

I don't think that's an accurate read on Admiral Ross' relationship with 31 in that episode.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?





Sanguinia posted:

I don't think that's an accurate read on Admiral Ross' relationship with 31 in that episode.
Right, it was more of a ‘we have similar goals even if I don’t agree with how you achieve them’

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Sanguinia posted:

I don't think that's an accurate read on Admiral Ross' relationship with 31 in that episode.

The end of the episode reveals he knows where Sloan is, which means that he's been in on the plan the whole time. Ross knowing that Sloane is alive also means that he's complicit to a degree with the plan to get Bashir to accidentally make the Romulan guy do a treason. There's no suggestion that Ross is special so we should assume any Admiral of his seniority has his level of knowledge as to what's going on. Every time Sisko makes enquiries about S31 he gets an official 'shut the gently caress up' response.

DS9 wants to be very clear that S31 are the bad guys but the text is not that they are a rogue bit of starfleet. Ross might make noises about not liking it, but ultimately he's at least in a compartmented way included in their plan, has provided them with support, and is not leading any sort of charge to expose them in the way that Bashir is.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004




Ultra Carp

Alchenar posted:

The end of the episode reveals he knows where Sloan is, which means that he's been in on the plan the whole time. Ross knowing that Sloane is alive also means that he's complicit to a degree with the plan to get Bashir to accidentally make the Romulan guy do a treason. There's no suggestion that Ross is special so we should assume any Admiral of his seniority has his level of knowledge as to what's going on.

Every one of these sentences contains a leap of logic

It's certainly one reading, but it doesn't necessarily follow from what we've seen.








Still, and I know we see all this through the lens of starfleet.... Starfleet is not the Federation. This derail was started by saying people in the federation didn't have it so much better than us because problems still existed and that is still a spurious claim

Royal Updog
Sep 26, 2019

Do you ever wonder if there are other planets out there
(source)

Chandler was the real mastermind.

Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001


Section 31 did nothing wrong

Butternubs
Feb 15, 2012


Sextion 69

Typical Pubbie
May 10, 2011


Remember how Burnham's parents turned out to be CIA spooks? Who were working on insanely dangerous time travel technology? And that technology would have been given to Control had it not been for the actions of a few brave Klingons? But they're the bad guys and Burnham's mom is now a romulan sister superior or something? Haha what a show.

Shyrka
Feb 10, 2005

Small Boss likes to spin!

GABA ghoul posted:

And there was that one story arc where the federation government sold out some of its colonies and citizens to fascist aliens. IRC some of them were even american indian descendents to hammer the point home.

This always leaves me with mixed feelings though, since... they're colonies. These aren't ancestral homelands, they're empty planets these people rocked up on and planted their flags on and said, "Mine!"

Also I've played enough Paradox games that I can imagine the whole 'Federation gives away planets to Cardassia, Cardassia gives away planets to Federation' treaty must have fixed some border gore, and that's always good right?

Typical Pubbie
May 10, 2011


They were 24th century homesteaders who would rather start a war that could kill billions than relocate to another part of the federation's post-scarcity utopia.

GABA ghoul
Oct 29, 2011

You're all I think, this thing set troublin


Shyrka posted:

This always leaves me with mixed feelings though, since... they're colonies. These aren't ancestral homelands, they're empty planets these people rocked up on and planted their flags on and said, "Mine!"

Also I've played enough Paradox games that I can imagine the whole 'Federation gives away planets to Cardassia, Cardassia gives away planets to Federation' treaty must have fixed some border gore, and that's always good right?

Everything outside some parts of africa is a colony, if you think about it. Guess it depends on how long they have been there. If they were born there, it's their homeland now.

Typical Pubbie posted:

They were 24th century homesteaders who would rather start a war that could kill billions than relocate to another part of the federation's post-scarcity utopia.

Agreed, someone has to make these hard and uncomfortable choices to save lives and keep everyone save. These strong men with strong minds do what the weak ivory tower dogooders can't.

Doctor Nutt
Apr 12, 2007

"Even now, Elisabeth is putting her miraculous new body through its paces." -Clovis Bray




Last time I watched that episode where Reed and the MACO guy butt heads and fight it was glaringly obvious that they needed to kiss.

Shyrka
Feb 10, 2005

Small Boss likes to spin!

GABA ghoul posted:

Agreed, someone has to make these hard and uncomfortable choices to save lives and keep everyone save. These strong men with strong minds do what the weak ivory tower dogooders can't.

*Ahem* I think you'll find it was those weak-willed peaceniks in the Federation council that surrendered our blood and soil to those snivelling spoonheads right when our brave boys in Starfleet were on the cusp of victory. A few more strong hard men making hard decisions could've let us keep those colonies, and a bounty more besides!

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.



Toilet Rascal

Doctor Nutt posted:

Last time I watched that episode where Reed and the MACO guy butt heads and fight it was glaringly obvious that they needed to kiss.

Legit that fight was one of the most homoerotic moments in Trek. It’s hilarious how much unintentional sexual tension there was between those two.

Doctor Nutt
Apr 12, 2007

"Even now, Elisabeth is putting her miraculous new body through its paces." -Clovis Bray




HD DAD posted:

Legit that fight was one of the most homoerotic moments in Trek. It’s hilarious how much unintentional sexual tension there was between those two.

I choose to believe it was intentional on the part of the actors and director but the producers were huge cowards.

Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Come play my CYOA!

Save your reality from the Constructors... then save all the rest of them.



They shoulda gone with it really

That's the federation I'm signed up for

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

Welcome to the machine

Brawnfire posted:

They shoulda gone with it really

That's the federation I'm signed up for

Luxury gay space communism is what the federation represents after all. I guess luxury didn't apply to Enterprise because it's early days.

Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Come play my CYOA!

Save your reality from the Constructors... then save all the rest of them.



"It's a hard universe, and we're hard men making hard choices. Are you hard? I'm hard"

"Uh well poo poo I am now"

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Brawnfire posted:

"It's a hard universe, and we're hard men making hard choices. Are you hard? I'm hard"

"Uh well poo poo I am now"

Get Hard For Goon Squad

Martian
May 29, 2005

They clean me with a Brillo Pad


Grimey Drawer

So Reed must actually have been quite happy about being a literal confirmed bachelor for the rest of his life.

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.



Toilet Rascal

I don’t know if it was an intentional choice by Dominic Keating, but Reed always seemed hilariously uncomfortable when trying to play up his straightness.

“Yes I sure do enjoy women and their vaginas. Just us straight guys locked in this shuttlepod together, talking about how attractive women are.”

Royal Updog
Sep 26, 2019

Do you ever wonder if there are other planets out there
(source)

Dogme 2195 Space Gay Manifesto

xerxus
Apr 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/star-trek-universe-paramount-plus-prodigy-1234914526/


We have a look at the 'bridge' crew of Prodigy. No Humans. Not sure how Janeway fits in here. Maybe she'll be a training hologram or something.

There's going to be 3 Trek series this year. Prodigy, Discovery, and Lower Decks.

Two other shows are in production this week, Picard and Strange New Worlds.

quote:

Kurtzman and McNamara say there are still “conversations” about a new “Star Trek” series around Michelle Yeoh’s Philippa Georgiou and the mysterious Section 31, and there are other “Trek” shows in development that haven’t been previously announced. But they emphasized that the current five-series slate will likely not expand further until at least one of the shows runs its course.
I think COVID might have messed up the schedule for Section 31. Michelle Yeoh is in a lot more productions now and might not have the time anymore.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


I hate it

Royal Updog
Sep 26, 2019

Do you ever wonder if there are other planets out there
(source)

a bit dreamworks but I don't hate it yet. more hortas would be nice

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003






Oh nooooooooooooooo no Section 31 show what a tragedy I'm so saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Cross-Section
Mar 18, 2009



tfw you're the paramount exec who suddenly realizes that 90% of star trek aliens are humans or humans with prosthetics glued to their faces

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


MikeJF posted:

Oh nooooooooooooooo no Section 31 show what a tragedy I'm so saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001


what's Yeoh in that's good because her character was a boring mess throughout Discovery

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


Wheeee posted:

what's Yeoh in that's good because her character was a boring mess throughout Discovery

Basically every Hong Kong action movie she ever did. She’s just wasted on Discovery because the writing for her character is garbage and no one knows how to shoot a proper action sequence.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Wheeee posted:

what's Yeoh in that's good because her character was a boring mess throughout Discovery

Wing Chun
Crouching Tiger (obvious)
Reign of Assassins

Tbh Yeoh is not some kind of great actress, she’s fun and recognizable and can do martial arts

sbaldrick
Jul 19, 2006
Driven by Hate


Big Mean Jerk posted:

Basically every Hong Kong action movie she ever did. She’s just wasted on Discovery because the writing for her character is garbage and no one knows how to shoot a proper action sequence.

You should see the tv show the Equalizer if you want to see badly shoot action.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


sbaldrick posted:

You should see the tv show the Equalizer if you want to see badly shoot action.

Oh it’s a CBS show? Say no more.

Crusader
Apr 11, 2002

progress that shields us from the terrors of an uncertain future





MikeJF posted:

Oh nooooooooooooooo no Section 31 show what a tragedy I'm so saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?





Would definitely be for the best if they just quietly canned the S31 show

Tars Tarkas
Apr 13, 2003


Section 31 show would only be good if it was about Yeoh taking down Section 31 piece by piece, get Bashir and his husband Garak as recurring characters

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Tars Tarkas posted:

Section 31 show would only be good if it was about Yeoh taking down Section 31 piece by piece, get Bashir and his husband Garak as recurring characters

You know that is not what it would be though. It would be about the tough-but-necessary choices all of the hard-working section 31 members have to make every day to keep the federation safe.

Every episode would be a Chain of Command, except the torturers would be the good guys.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?





That just reminds me how much I loathed the idea when the former producers brainstormed an idea for a hypothetical DS9 Season 8 in the 'What We Left Behind' documentary, where they put Bashir in charge of S31. That made absolutely no sense.

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Two Owls
Sep 17, 2016

Yeah, count me in



HD DAD posted:

I don’t know if it was an intentional choice by Dominic Keating, but Reed always seemed hilariously uncomfortable when trying to play up his straightness.

“Yes I sure do enjoy women and their vaginas. Just us straight guys locked in this shuttlepod together, talking about how attractive women are.”

I think Keating did pretty much say this at one point.

Also lieutenant Gruber from 'Allo 'Allo briefly pops up as Reed's dad, so the casting department may be in on it as well

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