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Alchenar posted:They take it right up until the point at which Discovery gets captured (not amazingly, but Tilly's arc for 3 seasons has been 'I'm really nervous and awkward but I want to be a Captain one day' and season 3 follows that up), at which point the show has the main antagonists humiliate Tilly, tell her she was bad at being a captain, and then the story dunks on her hard in order to pivot back to being the Michael Burnham show. Discovery is an insanely stupid and mean-spirited show Between Picard and Discovery I'm pretty well convinced that, despite liking Pike and his first officer, there will not be a good Star Trek again any time soon if ever
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Feb 22, 2021 18:20
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Cojawfee posted:Argyle is finally the chief. Quite the step up from Bruce's limo driver
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Feb 22, 2021 18:23
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Epicurius posted:It seems like TOS didn't really? Like, the core crew of TOS was Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. You had other characters....Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, Chekov, and they got some characterization, but none of them were particularly important or fleshed out. Uhura and Sulu didn't even have first names. I’d argue that Scotty is a main-ish character as well, but otherwise you’re right.
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Feb 22, 2021 18:24
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It was a weird choice to just loving poo poo on one of the only good and sympathetic characters on the show, that you've done a pretty good job building up for three seasons. Having her first command be a disaster and something she grows from would maybe save it in S4 but I don't trust the writing crew to be able to think that far ahead. Putting her in the XO seat and command in the first place was a bizarre choice, but once you've made it, she deserved better than "lol actually you're terrible at this, bye".
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Feb 22, 2021 18:26
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Alchenar posted:They take it right up until the point at which Discovery gets captured (not amazingly, but Tilly's arc for 3 seasons has been 'I'm really nervous and awkward but I want to be a Captain one day' and season 3 follows that up), at which point the show has the main antagonists humiliate Tilly, tell her she was bad at being a captain, and then the story dunks on her hard in order to pivot back to being the Michael Burnham show. gently caress dude, I'm constantly glad I never finished season 3. This sounds just loving awful.
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Feb 22, 2021 18:30
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apatheticman posted:Also keep in mind we are only doing ~10 Ep seasons. Have they considered that Star Trek doesn't need to have galaxy-threatening stakes in every season? No?
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Feb 22, 2021 18:35
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I know they're going to find some universe destroying plot to shoehorn into S4, but the setup they already did of Disco as dilithium truckers re-connecting with lost Federation worlds would be way better.
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Feb 22, 2021 18:38
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Doctor Nutt posted:Have they considered that Star Trek doesn't need to have galaxy-threatening stakes in every season? No? They considered it, that's why they threatened all sentient life in the universe and the very existence of the entire multiverse NEXT: the ubermetaomniverse is discovered, and then threatened
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Feb 22, 2021 18:38
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In Discovery season 4, the turbolift dimension will be threatened by interdimensional sentient elevators with genuine people personalities who find it blasphemous. They will win, forever collapsing turbolifts into a mere series of tubes and thus restoring canon
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Feb 22, 2021 18:41
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The Bloop posted:They considered it, that's why they threatened all sentient life in the universe and the very existence of the entire multiverse What's funny is that the whole plot about how the mycelian network being destroyed wiping out all life across the multiverse must mean that it was impossible for that to happen. If the multiverse consists of all possible realities then if it was possible then at least one universe had the mycelial network be destroyed. And thus since the mycelial network was not destroyed there must not be a universe in which it was possible to have been destroyed. And the universe was never threatened. QED
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Feb 22, 2021 18:44
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Nitrousoxide posted:What's funny is that the whole plot about how the mycelian network being destroyed wiping out all life across the multiverse must mean that it was impossible for that to happen. There's nothing that requires even an infinite multiverse must contain all possible states, and it wasn't presented as infinite anyway to my knowledge The idea that this one organism needs to survive forever in order for sentience to exist is pretty dum dum dum though
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Feb 22, 2021 18:46
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Stamets could just be wrong about the effects of the destruction of the myceilial network in the mirrorverse. The JahSepp didn't even mention it in Season 2. Their biggest threat was Culber rubbing tree-bark over himself.
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Feb 22, 2021 18:50
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Wheeee posted:Discovery is an insanely stupid and mean-spirited show Strange New Worlds is coming, that's the Captain Pike show. Lower Decks is here and good.
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Feb 22, 2021 18:50
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The Bloop posted:There's nothing that requires even an infinite multiverse must contain all possible states, and it wasn't presented as infinite anyway to my knowledge Over an infinite number of rolls, any non-zero probability event must occur. If it doesn't then it it is, by definition, impossible. Likewise, if our universe is infinite then there will be an infinite number of Earth's out there, and you's out there because there is clearly a non-zero probability that the arrangement of matter that make you up have a non-zero chance to occur.
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Feb 22, 2021 18:57
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Nitrousoxide posted:gently caress dude, I'm constantly glad I never finished season 3. This sounds just loving awful. There's a really strong sense that the Discovery writers room consists of 3-4 siloed camps who absolutely hate each other and who each use their turn to lead to poo poo on each other's plot threads.
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Feb 22, 2021 18:59
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not all infinities are equal in size despite being infinite the monkeys on typewriters idea of infinity is not necessarily true
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Feb 22, 2021 19:00
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Wheeee posted:not all infinities are equal in size despite being infinite Yeah I have yet to see anything to convince me that infinity must contain all possibilities Also, they never said the multiverse was infinite in Trek or had any authority to do so anyway with their limited understanding I could take the set of "all integers that aren't 3" and that is still an infinite set of integers that doesn't contain all integers, just for a banal example
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Feb 22, 2021 19:02
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Alchenar posted:There's a really strong sense that the Discovery writers room consists of 3-4 siloed camps who absolutely hate each other and who each use their turn to lead to poo poo on each other's plot threads. My assumption was that the showrunners suck at their jobs. Kurtzman is a legendary hack and Paradise wrote for a couple of obscure shows before being given the reigns. There's no one steering the ship.
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Feb 22, 2021 19:33
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Alchenar posted:They take it right up until the point at which Discovery gets captured (not amazingly, but Tilly's arc for 3 seasons has been 'I'm really nervous and awkward but I want to be a Captain one day' and season 3 follows that up), at which point the show has the main antagonists humiliate Tilly, tell her she was bad at being a captain, and then the story dunks on her hard in order to pivot back to being the Michael Burnham show. Typical Pubbie posted:My assumption was that the showrunners suck at their jobs. Kurtzman is a legendary hack and Paradise wrote for a couple of obscure shows before being given the reigns. There's no one steering the ship. Actually wasn't there talk that the Mr. Robot guy is taking over for Picard Season 2? Has that been confirmed anywhere?
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Feb 22, 2021 20:37
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Epicurius posted:It seems like TOS didn't really? Like, the core crew of TOS was Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. You had other characters....Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, Chekov, and they got some characterization, but none of them were particularly important or fleshed out. Uhura and Sulu didn't even have first names. This isn't that different from Enterprise either, where Archer, T'Pol and Trip are clearly the main cast, and Phlox, Reed, Mayweather and Sato are secondary characters. I'm watching it for the first time, am now at early season 4, and I don't really get the Mayweather jokes; I feel Reed is treated worse than him/ignored more so far. It's also a much better show than Discovery, despite it's obvious flaws.
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Feb 22, 2021 21:51
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Reed is definitely treated better than Mayweather. Reed has the shuttlepod episode, Minefield, the pineapple episode, and his rivalry with the MACO dude. Mayweather only has the episode where he goes home to the freighter and... that’s pretty much it. I guess the stuff with the Earth reporter too, but that’s still only a small subplot in a couple of later episodes.
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Feb 22, 2021 22:23
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I’m watching a few episodes of Enterprise at the moment it’s incredibly relaxed compared to current tv. It’s so dark and grey and sort of quiet. Puts me to sleep. Also they do not get off of that ship very often. You’re always in grey rooms.
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Feb 22, 2021 22:30
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In space, no one has cheerful curtains. We knew more about Sato, Reed, Mayweather, and Phlox halfway through season 1 than we still do about all those interchangeable nobodies in Disco
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Feb 22, 2021 22:34
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Reed is definitely treated better than Mayweather. Reed has the shuttlepod episode, Minefield, the pineapple episode, and his rivalry with the MACO dude. Mayweather only has the episode where he goes home to the freighter and... that’s pretty much it. There is almost a whole season where Mayweather gets like 1 line an episode 35 minutes in. Hoshi is only slightly better as her most interesting stuff also happens late season 4 when you find out she was a gambling addict who ran illegal poker games and broke her CO's arm when he tried to bust up a game and got kicked out of Starfleet for that. Imagine that being used as her personality basis besides just being space nervous the first few episodes.
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Feb 22, 2021 23:02
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Given how everyone keeps ending up in the save loving mirror universe, I'm going with there being exactly two universes in the multiverse. This is possible contradicted by not-god in season 3, but I don't really remember his bullshit because he felt out of place in Discovery.
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Feb 22, 2021 23:09
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I think you could have explained pre-discovery mirror universe with the idea that the first crossing was do to a transporter malfunction. And every crossing after that was based on studying that one malfunction and reproducing it. So before Discovery, they were going to the same mirror universe via the same mechanic.
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Feb 22, 2021 23:16
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BonHair posted:Given how everyone keeps ending up in the save loving mirror universe, I'm going with there being exactly two universes in the multiverse. This is possible contradicted by not-god in season 3, but I don't really remember his bullshit because he felt out of place in Discovery. There's a time soldier from the Kelvin-verse shown in Discovery.
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Feb 22, 2021 23:22
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BonHair posted:Given how everyone keeps ending up in the save loving mirror universe, I'm going with there being exactly two universes in the multiverse. This is possible contradicted by not-god in season 3, but I don't really remember his bullshit because he felt out of place in Discovery. TNG: Parallels 
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Feb 22, 2021 23:27
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Tars Tarkas posted:There is almost a whole season where Mayweather gets like 1 line an episode 35 minutes in. Hoshi is only slightly better as her most interesting stuff also happens late season 4 when you find out she was a gambling addict who ran illegal poker games and broke her CO's arm when he tried to bust up a game and got kicked out of Starfleet for that. Imagine that being used as her personality basis besides just being space nervous the first few episodes. There’s also some kind of history with Archer prior to Broken Bow that’s never explored beyond “hey come help me with this Klingon thing because we’re friends” in the pilot. They should have made her Archer’s confidant instead of Trip. Make Trip the hothead engineer who thinks he knows how to run Archer’s father’s engine better than him instead. Expand Hoshi’s linguistic background to include a desire to use that skill for communication with other races and make her Archer’s conscience when dealing with his Vulcan racism. I dunno, Enterprise is just rife with potentially easy fixes that should have been obvious. Like taking Mayweather’s experience literally growing up and spending most of his life in space and making him the Chief Engineer instead of Trip. Or take Reed’s family history of strict military service and making him the Helmsman rather than Tactical because he wants to break the cycle and be an explorer first and foremost. But, hey, 
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Feb 22, 2021 23:30
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Mayweather should have been, like, the most important guy on the ship. As you mentioned, he grew up in space, doing the space stuff that was 99% of space stuff for all humans outside warp experiments. He should have known all sorts of day-saving tricks and had connections with weird spacer characters
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Feb 22, 2021 23:50
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Brawnfire posted:Mayweather should have been, like, the most important guy on the ship. As you mentioned, he grew up in space, doing the space stuff that was 99% of space stuff for all humans outside warp experiments. He should have known all sorts of day-saving tricks and had connections with weird spacer characters So, Neelix
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Feb 22, 2021 23:54
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The Bloop posted:So, Neelix On second thought, let’s keep Mayweather pointless and boring
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Feb 22, 2021 23:59
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Was doing a rewatch with a friend on twitter recently and came to the conclusion Trip should have been captain and Archer either the engineer or eliminated entirely. There should also be waves of human settlers that were causing trouble (i.e. the people who can't cope with Earth being a socialist utopia and want to go do a capitalism somewhere) that Enterprise had to clean up and would give Travis stuff to do (and I like the chief engineer idea, put him over Archer who can't get the hang of jerry-rigging repairs) and Trip's good ol' boy persona helps clean up the damage that a bunch of space libertarians were doing (though the Vulcans are still smug jerks). Everyone else just bump up the best aspects so they have actual personalities and quirks - Hoshi is more of a hothead who is tempted to go full pirate, up Phlox's animal pals to the nth degree and have his various wives and their husbands show up more often just to weird up the show. Make Reed so secretive they keep finding out everything with him is a lie, hired actors for parents, lies upon lies even he can't keep straight, because there are two Reeds and one is involved in the time wars. Archer is a failson who can't live up to his dad in engineering skill and that explains his anger issues but his friends keep helping him get jobsBig Mean Jerk posted:But, hey, That emote is the summary of 3 and 2/3rds seasons of the show which is the saddest thing. There's a point around season 3 where even the cinematography guys get bored of how bad the show looks and start doing weird things, the producers obviously not paying attention and they get bolder in season 4 but still can't hid how bland the sets are.
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Feb 22, 2021 23:59
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The Bloop posted:So, Neelix No 
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Feb 23, 2021 00:12
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Ok the unrealized promise of Neelix I mean, voyager is nothing BUT unrealized promise, so..
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Feb 23, 2021 00:14
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Typical Pubbie posted:My assumption was that the showrunners suck at their jobs. Kurtzman is a legendary hack and Paradise wrote for a couple of obscure shows before being given the reigns. There's no one steering the ship. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SHhySoXDcA&t=1118s
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Feb 23, 2021 00:14
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Mayweather could be interesting. It’d be cool to see someone who’s not comfortable being on planets. Contrast that with Hoshi who is space nervous. From the handful of episodes I’ve seen so far everyone is just kind of staid and flat. Trip and Archer try their best but it’s just a very dull experience. Phlox trying hard helps. Malcolm Reed is actually kind of creepy.
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Feb 23, 2021 00:19
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Yvonmukluk posted:I mean, Harry Kim was an ensign for 7 years, the requirements must be really strict. Not Mr. Robot, but the guy behind 12 Monkeys. Either way, a giant improvement over Michael Chabon at least.
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Feb 23, 2021 01:24
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They should hand Discovery over to David Cronenberg, that guy gets it. e: I bet we'd get some real goopy aliens.
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Feb 23, 2021 02:00
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Big Mean Jerk posted:There’s also some kind of history with Archer prior to Broken Bow that’s never explored beyond “hey come help me with this Klingon thing because we’re friends” in the pilot. They should have made her Archer’s confidant instead of Trip. Make Trip the hothead engineer who thinks he knows how to run Archer’s father’s engine better than him instead. Expand Hoshi’s linguistic background to include a desire to use that skill for communication with other races and make her Archer’s conscience when dealing with his Vulcan racism. Um, the Southerner and the Vulcan are friends with the Captain, not the Asian! Do you even Star Trek? --some UPN executive, probably
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Feb 23, 2021 02:21
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