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Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

My employer has a strong work-from-home mandate. The office is not physically sealed, but you need to go through a manager approval process for each visit, etc. Tech company, it is possible for all employees to work from wherever really.

Right now, I'm in a video meeting with 20 people and one of them is clearly in a cafť. After a few minutes, he blurred the background.
I sent him a direct message asking about it, and he literally answered "masks are not required here , that's why I come here ;-)".

This in a country with just under 7% of people vaccinated. Sigh...

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Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


Yikes, there goes Iran as well


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/iran/

Gildiss
Aug 24, 2010


Grimey Drawer

South Korea has paused their AZ vaccinations for people under 60 years old now.

And daily infection rates are rising rapidly.
But we couldn't possibly close the gyms, churches, bars, karaoke places, or restaurants!
Think of the economy!

4th wave baby!

https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2021/04/119_306847.html

Helith
Nov 5, 2009

Basket of Adorables




Australia has just announced that they are recommending that AZ vaccine only be given to the over 50s.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


Helith posted:

Australia has just announced that they are recommending that AZ vaccine only be given to the over 50s.

Also they never managed to work out a deal with Moderna or J&J so for any Australian under 50 the only option is Pfizer. Which is great ...... except we don't have a lot of Pfizer so they'll probably be stalling the vaccine rollout for the under 50s.

Lolie
Jun 4, 2010



Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Also they never managed to work out a deal with Moderna or J&J so for any Australian under 50 the only option is Pfizer. Which is great ...... except we don't have a lot of Pfizer so they'll probably be stalling the vaccine rollout for the under 50s.

There are still a lot of health care and aged care staff waiting to be vaccinated and a lot of them are under 50. What a clusterfuck this is turning out to be.

Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

RELY NOT ON MY HONOR!!! FOR WHEN I OFFER MY WORD OF BOND, I TAKE NOT THAT VOW TO HEART!! CASUALLY, I BRING SHAME TO MY HOUSEHOLD AND RUIN TO THOSE WHO RELY ON MY COMMITMENT, BY SHIRKING MY AVOWED DUTY

wilderthanmild posted:

You could argue this happened with the 1918-1920 Flu, as it was extremely rapid in very severe onset and very quick to kill those who died, causing it to have trouble staying around once conditions were no longer favorable, but I'd argue luck is a bigger factor.

The influenza pandemic is still around, though. The virus never burned out, it established itself globally as a permanent issue we have to deal with.

Helith
Nov 5, 2009

Basket of Adorables




I think they are pinning a lot of hopes on Novavax and I assume they are negotiating to buy more Pfizer. I really hope they are negotiating to buy more Pfizer.
This will absolutely delay us even further but at least we are not in a life and death situation here though personally and for a lot of other people, delaying opening the border more and pushing out the date of being able to see family overseas is hard.

HazCat
May 4, 2009



I think any facility that can produce AZ can produce J&J, so that's another option for local production if they can sort out the licensing.

Personally my only preference was 'anything but AstraZeneca', and I don't mind waiting as long as community transmission stays down.

Pfizer recently confirmed that the extreme low storage temps aren't necessary as well, didn't they? That will make logistics easier, at least.

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009

"Let there be a thousand blossoms bloom, as far as I'm concerned."



FlamingLiberal posted:

If this turns out to be correct we are in serious trouble

https://twitter.com/reutersscience/status/1379745972394332161?s=21

30% of patients in an Australian study had significant long term effects too, I think that US study is probably around the mark.

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Also they never managed to work out a deal with Moderna or J&J so for any Australian under 50 the only option is Pfizer. Which is great ...... except we don't have a lot of Pfizer so they'll probably be stalling the vaccine rollout for the under 50s.


There's Novavax available once it gets approved. CSL can make that here I believe.

The other one they signed up for was some locally designed one that turned out to give false positives for HIV so it was canned.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Dang dicknose don't tuck that money under your eyelids!


Pillbug

Fame Douglas posted:

The influenza pandemic is still around, though. The virus never burned out, it established itself globally as a permanent issue we have to deal with.

Influenza existed long before the 1918 pandemic, the strain involved in that basically did burn out and no longer exists outside of some corpses in permafrost. Thereís four different virus species and itís been documented since the 1500s.

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

What is this boring crap we're watching? Check if Antiques Roadshow is on




British are saying they will be offering under 30s a choice of vaccines which will basically be "you can choose AZ or you can choose to wait for the J&J the young ones are getting, oh and we don't tell you what we are using that day until you are in the chair and good luck telling the 80 year old women we are getting to do the jabs that you want to defer when she says they only have AZ"

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


gay picnic defence posted:

There's Novavax available once it gets approved. CSL can make that here I believe.

Novavax approval might still be a few months off, they've been pretty vague about it so far. Also the ABC coronavirus blog says "At the moment, the CSL lab is making AstraZeneca vaccine and cannot make anything else while it is set up for that" and Brendan Murphy said "We will explore with Novavax if there are any options to manufacture onshore" which uhhhhhhhhhhhh maybe you could have put some thought into that before now hey Brendan???????

Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Apr 8, 2021

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Novavax is talking about EUA in the U.S. next month

pidan
Nov 6, 2012



learnincurve posted:

British are saying they will be offering under 30s a choice of vaccines which will basically be "you can choose AZ or you can choose to wait for the J&J the young ones are getting, oh and we don't tell you what we are using that day until you are in the chair and good luck telling the 80 year old women we are getting to do the jabs that you want to defer when she says they only have AZ"

Well, objectively speaking killing a handful of young people is certainly preferable to continuing the covid pandemic for more months (which would kill more young people than the vaccine does). But lots of people don't want to risk being the sacrifice.

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009

"Let there be a thousand blossoms bloom, as far as I'm concerned."



Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Novavax approval might still be a few months off, they've been pretty vague about it so far. Also the ABC coronavirus blog says "At the moment, the CSL lab is making AstraZeneca vaccine and cannot make anything else while it is set up for that" and Greg Hunt said "We will explore with Novavax if there are any options to manufacture onshore" which uhhhhhhhhhhhh maybe you could have put some thought into that before now hey Greg???????

I doubt CSL will be going ahead with the original plan now. It makes zero sense to continue making AZ if Novavax is available and AZ can't be used on 3/4 of the population.

Bape Culture
Sep 13, 2006


I thought the blood clot thing was a one in a million (literally) reaction with some birth control or summat? What is it now?

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


Platystemon posted:

Novavax is talking about EUA in the U.S. next month

That doesn't really change the situation in Australia at all.

(Pfizer didn't get provisional approval in Australia until Jan 25, almost 6 weeks after the US EUA)

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

What is this boring crap we're watching? Check if Antiques Roadshow is on




It's still less than one in a million, which is less than the risk of blood clots from some types of BC, and way less than the risk of blood clots from covid.


My BC has a risk of turning my bones to ash and it's due the day before my second AZ shot lol

pidan
Nov 6, 2012



Bape Culture posted:

I thought the blood clot thing was a one in a million (literally) reaction with some birth control or summat? What is it now?

Unclear, a really rare disorder that shows up in young people a week or two after vaccination with az, much more often than it does in the general population. Some victims have been postmenopausal or men, so probably nothing to do with birth control.

Uni Greifswald says it's similar to a side effect of Heparin
https://idw-online.de/en/news765335

It's not clear whether there's a more specific risk group than "people under 60".

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


gay picnic defence posted:

I doubt CSL will be going ahead with the original plan now. It makes zero sense to continue making AZ if Novavax is available and AZ can't be used on 3/4 of the population.

People under 50 can still opt in for AZ with "informed consent" if they want, especially if they've got co-morbidities that would put them at higher risk of severe illness from covid. It's not officially banned or anything, the language they're using is that Pfizer is the "preferred" vaccine for under 50s. That's also dependent on us not having any community spread, if there's a large scale outbreak they'd change the recommendations again. People under 50 who already got the first dose of AZ will still be getting AZ for their second dose.

Their messaging on this whole thing has been pretty lovely so far, they'll be holding cabinet meetings tomorrow to discuss the broader implications on the vaccine rollout plans but the PM said it's "far too early" to say anything else about it.

pidan
Nov 6, 2012



learnincurve posted:

It's still less than one in a million, which is less than the risk of blood clots from some types of BC, and way less than the risk of blood clots from covid.

For young women in Germany, it was about 1/60000. For that group, this is actually only one or two orders of magnitude away from covid's CFR.

Most people who have been vaccinated with AZ in Europe are old, and they don't seem to get that side effect at all.

poverty goat
Feb 15, 2004




Snowglobe of Doom posted:

That doesn't really change the situation in Australia at all.

Maybe the island nations that have defeated the coronavirus should just be patient and let the covid-riddled landlocked countries get their vaccines first

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

What is this boring crap we're watching? Check if Antiques Roadshow is on




pidan posted:

For young women in Germany, it was about 1/60000. For that group, this is actually only one or two orders of magnitude away from covid's CFR.

Most people who have been vaccinated with AZ in Europe are old, and they don't seem to get that side effect at all.

1.8 million people under 40 have had the AZ vaccine in the UK and the results are still less than one in a million. It becomes bullshit and chips scaremongering at this point imo.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012






Buglord

Ugly In The Morning posted:

Influenza existed long before the 1918 pandemic, the strain involved in that basically did burn out and no longer exists outside of some corpses in permafrost. There’s four different virus species and it’s been documented since the 1500s.
I was under the impression the 1918 pandemic was H1N1, which is still around today.

pidan
Nov 6, 2012



learnincurve posted:

1.8 million people under 40 have had the AZ vaccine in the UK and the results are still less than one in a million. It becomes bullshit and chips scaremongering at this point imo.

The UK have also reported at least 30 cases of blood clots, although I don't know how many of them were under 40:

https://m.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-uk-finds-30-blood-clot-cases-after-astrazeneca-jab/a-57083963

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

AUSTRALIA
NEEDS
TURNBULL


poverty goat posted:

Maybe the island nations that have defeated the coronavirus should just be patient and let the covid-riddled landlocked countries get their vaccines first

It has little to do with being an island (see: Vietnam, China) but yeah, the discourse around vaccines in Australia at the moment is driving me up the loving wall. We live in one of the scant few countries which has managed to defeat the virus without vaccines (which we should be rightfully proud of) and instead everybody is having an almighty whinge about how they deserve the vaccine now now now, gimme gimme gimme. "Oh wahhh I want to see my family overseas/interstate" - you think everyone else in the world doesn't loving want that too? My family's in WA and I haven't seen them since 2019 but at least they're loving alive, unlike 150,000 people in Britain alone.

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

What is this boring crap we're watching? Check if Antiques Roadshow is on




pidan posted:

The UK have also reported at least 30 cases of blood clots, although I don't know how many of them were under 40:

https://m.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-uk-finds-30-blood-clot-cases-after-astrazeneca-jab/a-57083963

18.1 million doses and they don't know how many of those were caused by the coronavirus itself. No studies have been done into the other vaccines here because we haven't done enough of them.

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?

Hey people going through the Pfizer vax soon, I learned a valuable lesson about the arm pain:

Both shots gave me fatigue, chills and aches. Shot one I was very delicate with my arm. I went home and relaxed, I slept with it in a neutral position and barely used it to let it rest. Ended up with a huge painful bruise and a constant dull pain that kept me up at night. It hurt so bad I could barely dress myself on day three.

Got shot 2 yesterday morning. Every couple hours I did some stretching and light exercise, like overhead pressing a book. Before I went to bed I did some stretching and massaged my whole arm. It so far hasnít gotten worse. It still feels like a bruise when I move it but I can actually use my arm and it isnít aching when Iím not using it. Very different experience overall.

Rolo fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Apr 8, 2021

wilderthanmild
Jun 21, 2010

Posting shit



Grimey Drawer

Fame Douglas posted:

The influenza pandemic is still around, though. The virus never burned out, it established itself globally as a permanent issue we have to deal with.

Yes, but influenza was around prior to that, for hundreds of years and that particular strain is gone and replaced with less lethal ones.

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

What is this boring crap we're watching? Check if Antiques Roadshow is on




Do people not get how wildly they are veering into anti-vax lunacy here? Oh no! 30 blood clots in the exact demographic of vulnerable people suffering from heart problems and diabetes during a plague that causes blood clots! And people want to what? Advocate for delaying getting the vaccine because of it, which would then cause the deaths of more people? Shut the gently caress up and get your shot you absolute child.

Fallom
Sep 6, 2008




Fun Shoe

People arenít being antivaxx, theyíre being anti that vaxx. I wouldnít blame anybody for opting to get Pfizer/Moderna/J&J if given the chance. Especially if the data holds up that the other vaccines work better against the variants.

AZ hasnít exactly been helping their own case, either

pidan
Nov 6, 2012



Well, the point is that these clots mostly happen in young people who are NOT at high risk of covid complications.

Also, it's not just any old blood clots, it's a very specific syndrome that is usually extremely rare.

You can have different opinions on whether young people should be encouraged to get the shot anyway (UK says yes, lots of other countries say no). But it's a far cry from anti vax lunacy, especially since a whole bunch of safer vaccines are available.

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

What is this boring crap we're watching? Check if Antiques Roadshow is on




Uh huh, data shows that are all just as effective, it's just that when they did the tests and studies during development they were done at different stages in the waves but continue to read bild I guess.

Colonel Cancer
Sep 26, 2015

Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

What's the verdict on any of these vaccines actually helping against Brazilian strain?

Fallom
Sep 6, 2008




Fun Shoe

I donít know what that means. Can you share the data that says AZ is equally as effective against the SA variant?

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

What is this boring crap we're watching? Check if Antiques Roadshow is on




pidan posted:

Well, the point is that these clots mostly happen in young people who are NOT at high risk of covid complications.

Also, it's not just any old blood clots, it's a very specific syndrome that is usually extremely rare.

You can have different opinions on whether young people should be encouraged to get the shot anyway (UK says yes, lots of other countries say no). But it's a far cry from anti vax lunacy, especially since a whole bunch of safer vaccines are available.

And yet people are pointing at the 30 cases in 18.1 million of mostly old people as "proof" and not giving the numbers of these rare clots in the 1.8 million under 40s are they? It's disingenuous scaremongering doom posting at it's worst.



pidan
Nov 6, 2012



learnincurve posted:

And yet people are pointing at the 30 cases in 18.1 million of mostly old people as "proof" and not giving the numbers of these rare clots in the 1.8 million under 40s are they? It's disingenuous scaremongering doom posting at it's worst.

Now you're being willfully stupid. Here's an article that lays it out nicely:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56665517

Covid: most dangerous for old men
AZ vaccine: much less dangerous for everyone, but most dangerous for young women

Even UK is only using it for over 30s any more.

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

What is this boring crap we're watching? Check if Antiques Roadshow is on




No. They are going to offer people under 30 a choice, but that choice will most likely be AZ or get to the back of the queue.


Edit: did you even read the article yourself???

learnincurve fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Apr 8, 2021

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Zugzwang
Jan 2, 2005

I look like you wanna look, I fuck like you wanna fuck, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.



Ramrod XTreme

Man, if the virus could have been um, less kind, to one horrible strongman this past year, this would've been a good one. Grandmas dying left and right and the dude who wrote Stacy's Mom, but not this fucker or Assad.

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