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Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Milkfred E. Moore posted:

it was bizarrely out of character for every single character involved, plus rushed as hell. even when i was a kid, that bit of the storyline felt like an editor or something tapped stackpole on the shoulder and said, hey, buddy, we've got to make a few changes here.

Stackpole, writing characters doing stuff that don't make sense? Whaaaa?

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Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Hazo posted:

Karl Urban is really getting around in big franchises.

I guess Stackpole no longer has the pull to make them literally put him in the game as his self-insert character like they did for the CCG.

Behold, the man so charismatic and handsome that every woman falls in love with him and every man begs to be his friend.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Linux Pirate posted:

Is this another case of a sci-fi author inserting a wired fetish in theirs stories? Because even though pissing and making GBS threads your pants is apart of aerospace history, I can't help but feel someone used this an an excuse to get them pampers into star wars.

Chris Claremont's fetish for mind control

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


I genuinely don't understand the fascination with Boba Fett. He stands around, makes a single delivery and then dies like a bitch.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Polaron posted:

Bring back Ooryl!

It's amazing how he managed to come off as pretty likeable and interesting despite being paired with Stackpole's self-insert. I think he might genuinely be the best character Hackpole ever made.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


fartknocker posted:

Being paired with Corran meant he got among the most development of any character in those books, since Stackpole couldn’t ignore him like he tended to do with half the squadron.

I forget which of the various Star Wars threads I mentioned this in a while ago (The Squadrons one maybe?) but Stackpole’s X-wing books always have 3-4 Rogues who solely exist to be listed in the roster at the start, mentioned once or twice, and then die with minimal impact if any on the story. They might as well not even get names, just “Rogue 8” or whatever. Probably the best (Worst?) example of that is Gavin’s wingman, Riv Shiel, who across 4 books has like 3 total lines of dialogue and anything about his background is discussed in passing to talk other characters (Usually Corran). For someone around that long into the series, he basically isn’t developed at all.

The obvious contrast to this is the Wraith books, where all of them get at least a little fleshing out, actual lines of dialogue, and some bits of characterization. It makes them all far more memorable, even the ones who only last a portion of one book. It’s a shame Aaron Allston never got to do more with them.

That's pretty normal for him. Also, every other character in the squadron seems to only exist in relation to Corran, because Stackpole can't fathom a world where you aren't totally infatuated with him. Like the guy who exists only to be his rival and then fucks off when Corran is established as being the best in the squadron, or the girl who only exists to be clearly evil and horny for him.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Polaron posted:

Why the gently caress do I remember all of this.

Because Wraith Squadron is a pretty good trilogy

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Yeah whatever would we do without all of the distinctive and memorable character moments of Corran Horn like

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Stackpole wrote both those scenes.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


...Tedious diatribes about how "politics" are bad but soldiers are good?

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Lemniscate Blue posted:

Was that before or after he was a puppet mouthpiece for a Libertarian author who had mediocre "adventures" in between rants about how terrible government is?

This was in the Vong books

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


I think having a problem with Lando is a thing more among people who had to wait the three years between Empire and Jedi, rather than just popping the next one in the VCR. Yeah, he goes back and tries to fix things, but still the end of the movie is this new guy betraying our pals from the Star War

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


*two of the worst books (non-Kevin J. Anderson division)

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Thrawn mostly works because Zahn is a more clever writer than most of the people doing a Star War. That's all there is to it, really. Anderson tried to do exactly the same thing with Daala and she's a joke.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


I believe that swarm of microbes was called maxi-clorians

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


SlothfulCobra posted:

The biggest line of reasoning I've seen is that Jedi weren't necessarily all that common throughout the galaxy. There are plenty of planets where Jedi almost never visit, and especially during the clone wars, all the Jedi were busy fighting the war and even less visible to the common man.

The Clone Wars TV show established that the Jedi were big heroes that the Republic constantly talked up, though. Sure, most people in the MCU during WWII never met Captain America, but they sure as poo poo know who he is.

Some Goon posted:

The problem is simple, too many jedi in the prequels. It's hard to be a band of itinerant monk-knights when you've got a sweet highrise in the capital of the galaxy.

This is the correct answer. George Lucas knew lightsabers got people excited so he had a million Jedi on screen all the loving time.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Everything in Star Wars is based on what George Lucas remembers from being a kid, so going to a movie only cost two space pennies and it was probably the only thing poor street kids could do to have fun.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


it is a benevolent omnipresent force that guides people when the plot needs it to, and then other times it's just an animistic concept that exists as part of nature. It's what you get when your ideas are a boomer's concept of Eastern religion combined with a need to have supernatural intervention get you out of corners you've written yourself into.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


We know now that the choke is telekinetic because we know that the force lets you do that, but if they gone in a different way in Empire, it would not have been hard to say that Vader was using his power to convince his body that he was choking. We don't see his neck getting squeezed or anything like that.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Yeah, but he was making his body do that himself, there's no like "invisible rope around his neck" going on. I think it's a clever bit of ambiguity.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


George Lucas says "goon-ga" and he's a complete moron so it's safe to assume he's doing that wrong too

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


The part where Luke turns to the dark side because Sheev says "your dad did it" was unfathomably dumb and even if the rest of the writing was a masterpiece, it would still be a bad story

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


I think my dad has the same opinion of Star Wars as Harrison Ford does.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Sodomy Hussein posted:

I don't need elite pilots as the Empire, I need enough recruits to blot out the sun with TIE fighters to get across that I have a 100-to-1 numerical advantage, using fighters built by the lowest bidder.

"This plan will never fail, unless my enemy happens to have a legendary pilot famous for his ability to get 100 kills in a single battle! He'd be some kind of... hundred-man slayer, or something. There's no way that guy could exist, though."

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Jedis have been Super Saiyans since at least RotJ, just make your peace with it.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


SlothfulCobra posted:

Lucas was actually pretty restrained with the supernatural abilities of jedi, much like how Tolkien was pretty restrained with how much magic Gandalf does. In RotJ Luke's got a couple super jumps and a little ESP, and that's it. Even in the prequels, the jedi didn't actually sling around very much magic by the standards of like superhero media. There absolutely wasn't the thing that happened with DBZ where powers just get inflated indefinitely until nothing really means anything because everything is so powerful that it's too abstract to meaningfully depict.

They go from "Obi-Wan has the power of suggestion and Vader chokes one guy" to "Sheevy P bukkakes lightning all over everything" in the original trilogy. That's a pretty ludicrous ramp-up, not even getting into super-speed and a force-blast--struggle in the prequels.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


wdarkk posted:

There is actually an explanation that makes perfect sense for the Eagles thing, though.

Mostly that you don't particularly want to check a half-dozen Maiar for "will they loving grab the ring" at the same time.

Also gandalf needed the Fellowship to go to Rohan and Gondor to fix their problems.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Humans are what happens when a Yoda fucks a Hurt, you're welcome.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


No they told her. The argument about the names is what Wedge says to her.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Corran Horn would be voiced by Michael A. Stackpole because he's not even pretending it isn't his self-insert

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Also some authors used them as an excuse to go "maybe the empire wasn't so bad and we should make friends with them."

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


SlothfulCobra posted:

After the outbreak of the Clone Wars, the Republic extended membership to the distant planet of Kamino in order to safeguard the source of the clone army, and Kamino was granted a full seat in the senate as well. This is who they sent as their senator.



She used her seat in the senate mainly to petition the Republic to take out more loans to spend more money on expanding its military, using the war to enrich Kamino.

Her name is Halle Burtoni.

Any time someone tries to suggest that some theory based entirely on circumstantial background poo poo is what Lucas "intended" I point to stuff like this and Nute Gunray.

George Lucas has the mind of a child.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Hazo posted:

Bitch did you actually watch the movies? The fact that so many Star Wars “fans” are turbo chuddy is still really weird to me.

They also have the same inability to look at things beyond the surface that Lucas does.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


fartknocker posted:

A good chunk of I, Jedi is devoted to pointing out the issues at Luke’s academy.

When your trilogy is so badly written that even Stackpole can dunk all over you with impunity.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Jazerus posted:

you can make fun of him all you want but the zahn/stackpole/allston version of star wars was basically peak star wars

Zahn and Allston, maybe.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Jazerus posted:

the whole "han acting like a rich awkward stepdad" thing with kyp is just weird as hell

The parts where Anderson tells us that Han is thinking about how cool Kyp is and how much he wants to be best friends with him is maybe the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in print. And I work at a newspaper.

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Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


ThisIsJohnWayne posted:

Kotor 2 = "what if we'd all be normal people and get rid of this force thing that always restart the same war for 40,000 years or something" said your contrarian friend Kreia, is what it was supposed to be but lol nope, this is star wars so her real name is Darth (Be)traya' and you hit her and the game ends like Fallout 1.

It really was like Black Isle Studios made a star wars game wasn't it

BIS finished KotOR 1 and was like "okay so how did killing one guy fix all the damage from the war?" and that's why they put G0-T0 in the game

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