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Roth
Jul 9, 2016

There's a later arc where the Jedi train local contras to destabilize a Sepratist planet

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TremorX
Jan 19, 2001

All Hail Big Hairy Mike

Roth posted:

There's a later arc where the Jedi train local contras to destabilize a Sepratist planet

Anakin trains Saw Gererra who later becomes Space Bin Laden

Helianthus Annuus
Feb 21, 2006

can i touch your hand
Grimey Drawer
it was cool ti watch finn try to use a light saber

Tiberius Christ
Mar 4, 2009

is leia a jedi with her own lightsaber that sucks

Gnome de plume
Sep 5, 2006

Hell.
Fucking.
Yes.
She had a bad vision so she gave it to Luke who took it with him when he abandoned everything and everyone he ever knew to go die alone on remote ocean planet, like you do

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

El Generico posted:

the jedi were cool in concept as this vague mysterious legend about space wizards that used to exist but they're all dead except for an elderly troll doll and that one scary bad guy. everything star wars does where jedi fully exist and are on screen doing dumb force poo poo and waving light sabers around is horribly lame. the more we learn about them the worse it gets.

the original trilogy is great, there's really no jedi in it. yoda is too old to jump around and do force poo poo, obi wan is old and dies, luke does maybe one or two subtle force things but he doesn't finish his training to become fully lame. this is the correct amount of jedi
the prequel trilogy is the worst, it has gently caress tons of jedi in it. it's awful and lame and everything the dumbass jedi do is embarrassing
the sequel trilogy has more jedi poo poo in it than the original trilogy, less than the prequels. it's in the middle but still too much jedi.

the mandalorian has no jedi. it's great

the jedi need to die so star wars can live. say no to jedi

baby yoda is a jedi tho

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

Doublestep posted:

none of the movies truly delve into how much both the jedi/sith suck (except the prequels kinda) but a lot of the games and books gently caress with it

This is like the main thrust of the Luke/Rey/Ben stuff in TLJ (which is why it's the best part of that movie)

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


C-Euro posted:

This is like the main thrust of the Luke/Rey/Ben stuff in TLJ (which is why it's the best part of that movie)

it is and a bunch of people got mad over it because it required them to think

Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Pillbug
Only a Sith deals in absolutes, OP.

Tiberius Christ
Mar 4, 2009

Alan Smithee posted:

baby yoda is a jedi tho

theres no mention of the force but there is a DARKSABRE and some baby magic hands

Doublestep
Sep 8, 2013

Keep on keeping on!

C-Euro posted:

This is like the main thrust of the Luke/Rey/Ben stuff in TLJ (which is why it's the best part of that movie)

yeah it just sucks that TROS immediately goes against that and luke says how epic jedi are

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Doublestep posted:

yeah it just sucks that TROS immediately goes against that and luke says how epic jedi are

That’s the end of TLJ you’re thinking of. You know the part where Luke goes “actually its not time for the jedi to end“

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


skasion posted:

That’s the end of TLJ you’re thinking of. You know the part where Luke goes “actually its not time for the jedi to end“

Yeah that’s why I’m unsure about tljs position

it tried some cool stuff but didn’t commit

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Pollyanna posted:

Yeah that’s why I’m unsure about tljs position

it tried some cool stuff but didn’t commit

TLJ is just parroting themes from 5/6/the prequels when it talks about how blind obedience to religious dogma is stupid, think for yourself, don’t get too attached to liberal democracy, eat the rich etc. its cool that that happened in a Disney movie but imho its cooler that that was in the original/prequel movies to begin with and loads of people never noticed until Luke Skywalker outright told them that sometimes military-religious-aristocrats are lovely

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


skasion posted:

TLJ is just parroting themes from 5/6/the prequels when it talks about how blind obedience to religious dogma is stupid, think for yourself, don’t get too attached to liberal democracy, eat the rich etc. its cool that that happened in a Disney movie but imho its cooler that that was in the original/prequel movies to begin with and loads of people never noticed until Luke Skywalker outright told them that sometimes military-religious-aristocrats are lovely

TLJ not only parroted those themes but then at the end it says “gently caress it nevermind” and does a 180 which is why it’s not my favorite

TLJ coulda been so good :(

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Roth posted:

There's a later arc where the Jedi train local contras to destabilize a Sepratist planet

the book that's just Apocalypse Now with samuel l jackson instead of martin sheen was pretty good

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

There's also an Apocalypse Now arc in The Clone Wars.

Godspeed You! Black Conservative
Dec 30, 2006

by Fluffdaddy
Jedi are volcels

El Generico
Feb 3, 2009

Nobody outrules the Marquise de Cat!

Jazerus posted:

this is a metaphor for crafting star wars stories. overreliance on the force gives a contrived feeling to the story, divorcing the audience from the feeling that the galaxy is a real place. star wars was originally acclaimed for the dirtiness of its sets - the lived-in feeling of its universe in comparison to the sterile futurism of star trek or buck rogers. too much force ruins that. plus the prequels really fully embrace that same sterile futurism that the original trilogy avoided

:yeah:

if the force had well defined, concrete rules and limitations and you could have conflicts where the bad guys are taking advantage of those limitations and then the jedi have to use cleverness and ingenuity to win anyway that could be fine

but you can just make up any force powers you want whenever you want

Dr. VooDoo
May 4, 2006


Jedi probably have really poor hygiene and don’t shower so they smell bad tbh

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!

dudeness posted:

Rat-tail wearing motherfuckers. Don't trust anyone that raises kids to wear rat-tails. loving nasty.
The Force is not guaranteed to create "gruesome little curls"

Dont Touch ME
Apr 1, 2018

The worst part of star wars is every bit that happened after the first movie.

Space wizards are cool OP, dunno what got your knickers in a twist.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Dont Touch ME posted:

The worst part of star wars is every bit that happened after the first movie.

I agree, it’s all downhill from Phantom Menace

Sonderval
Sep 10, 2011
Wraith Squadron books, solid story, good charaters, drama, loss, growth, great books ... zero loving Jedi!

Starfighters of Adumar, the best EU book they did (fite me) ... ZERO loving JEDI.

gently caress Jedi.

Casu Marzu
Oct 20, 2008

Sonderval posted:

Wraith Squadron books, solid story, good charaters, drama, loss, growth, great books ... zero loving Jedi!

Starfighters of Adumar, the best EU book they did (fite me) ... ZERO loving JEDI.

gently caress Jedi.

:hmmyes:

garycoleisgod
Sep 27, 2004
Boo
All Jedi are bad, but

Obi-Wan Kenobi is the Worst

He lies to Luke about his dad, so he can convince him to join a Stupid Religion for Idiot Losers Who Lost. When Vader tells Luke the truth, and Luke calls out to Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan doesn't answer the Force phone.

After Yoda finally confirms that yeah, Vader is the baby daddy, THEN Obi-Wan shows up and gives his bullshit "true from a certain point of view" crap, like the big liar he is. Luke says he can't kill his dad and there is still good in him and Obi-Wan is all like, "well, the emperor has won then".

Was Obi-Wan born at Wrong o'clock on the 12th of Incorrect or something? So, Luke was right, doesn't kill his dad, who is redeemed and kills the emperor (at least until the sequels hosed everything up).

And don't get me started on him and Yoda telling Luke not to go save his friends and some people who are bad at watching films thinking they were right to say this, thinking Luke's friends had to save him. Oh really? It is R2 who was brought to Cloud City by Luke who fixes the hyperdrive, without which they were all recaptured. Luke did the right thing by skipping getting trained by dumbass jedi. It's not like they were going to tell him the truth about Vader. Losing his hand and finding out about his dad was tough in the moment for Luke, but in the long run it helped him grow and make good decisions.

Thank you for listening to my presentation.

Incoherence
May 22, 2004

POYO AND TEAR

skasion posted:

TLJ is just parroting themes from 5/6/the prequels when it talks about how blind obedience to religious dogma is stupid, think for yourself, don’t get too attached to liberal democracy, eat the rich etc. its cool that that happened in a Disney movie but imho its cooler that that was in the original/prequel movies to begin with and loads of people never noticed until Luke Skywalker outright told them that sometimes military-religious-aristocrats are lovely
The prequels kinda skirt around it but don't really do anything with it because they don't really need to: the audience already knows Anakin is going to turn evil and kill all the Jedi, and the movies don't even really bother with making him sympathetic while he does this (it handwaves it off that he's traumatized but if he'd Really Believed in the Force then he wouldn't have acted out his trauma like he did).

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005

garycoleisgod posted:

All Jedi are bad, but

Obi-Wan Kenobi is the Worst

He lies to Luke about his dad, so he can convince him to join a Stupid Religion for Idiot Losers Who Lost. When Vader tells Luke the truth, and Luke calls out to Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan doesn't answer the Force phone.

After Yoda finally confirms that yeah, Vader is the baby daddy, THEN Obi-Wan shows up and gives his bullshit "true from a certain point of view" crap, like the big liar he is. Luke says he can't kill his dad and there is still good in him and Obi-Wan is all like, "well, the emperor has won then".

Was Obi-Wan born at Wrong o'clock on the 12th of Incorrect or something? So, Luke was right, doesn't kill his dad, who is redeemed and kills the emperor (at least until the sequels hosed everything up).

And don't get me started on him and Yoda telling Luke not to go save his friends and some people who are bad at watching films thinking they were right to say this, thinking Luke's friends had to save him. Oh really? It is R2 who was brought to Cloud City by Luke who fixes the hyperdrive, without which they were all recaptured. Luke did the right thing by skipping getting trained by dumbass jedi. It's not like they were going to tell him the truth about Vader. Losing his hand and finding out about his dad was tough in the moment for Luke, but in the long run it helped him grow and make good decisions.

Thank you for listening to my presentation.

Reminder that Obi wan is considered the paragon Jedi and it all makes sense

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skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Incoherence posted:

The prequels kinda skirt around it but don't really do anything with it because they don't really need to: the audience already knows Anakin is going to turn evil and kill all the Jedi, and the movies don't even really bother with making him sympathetic while he does this (it handwaves it off that he's traumatized but if he'd Really Believed in the Force then he wouldn't have acted out his trauma like he did).

Anakin is not supposed to be a sympathetic character in the sense that we agree with him, particularly when he starts killing innocents, but his grievances against the Jedi are legitimate. I don’t think it’s correct that we should think “this is all Anakin’s fault, why couldn’t he just do better”. Anakin is an immature, pathetic figure. He turns to evil because an evil man offers him the power to take control of his life and his future, something the Jedi never did for him and often actively tried to keep him from. Only Ben, of all the Jedi, ever accepts any blame for what happened to Anakin, and he puts it all on himself: he thinks that if he could have been as good a teacher as Yoda, he would have saved the day and Anakin would have been fine. He’s wrong. The Jedi hosed Anakin over and he spent years suffering under them before someone with an ulterior motive finally told him “you should gently caress them back.”

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