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Galewolf
Jan 9, 2007



Presto posted:

It was great up until the expansion pack that introduced the TIE Defender, which was overpowered and dumb. There, I said it.

Are you implying that a ship with 4 linked rapid-fire cannons, 2 ion cannons, near capital class levels of shields, two warhead launchers that can hold up to 16 advanced concussion missiles (or 8 adv. torpedoes) can fly like 20 % faster than Tie Interceptor and warp drive capabilities are a bit too much?

Well, I did spent like 4 tours of duty in a flying coffin with two massive solar panels on the side against A-Wings there I feel like I deserve this

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Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


ever notice how the empire uses renewable energy while the rebels use gas-guzzling carbon emitting space fighters

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008





Presto posted:

It was great up until the expansion pack that introduced the TIE Defender, which was overpowered and dumb. There, I said it.

I have to agree with you. Progress in the game should have ended with the TIE Advanced, which basically was Darth Vader's craft. It gave you everything you needed to complete any mission and outclassed anything the Rebels could throw at you. The Defender was overkill and meant that any mission wasn't harder, it would just take longer because you'd have more targets to kill. The of course they released the Missile Boat which was stronger than the entire Rebellion combined, but that's another story.


Frankly, I had the most fun in the series flying TIE Interceptors. Take a TIE Fighter, add an extra pair of guns and make it nimbler and just a little bit quicker. Now you can blast anything out of the sky with style but you're still dead meat if you spend half a second out of maneuver. You're special, but not "has shields on his fighter" special. Only Darth Vader rates shields.




Dreylad posted:

ever notice how the empire uses renewable energy while the rebels use gas-guzzling carbon emitting space fighters

those are radiators, not solar panels

Galewolf
Jan 9, 2007



Agreeing on the best missions being Interceptor ones. Though, I really felt like a baller when completing certain hard missions with TIE Fighter (hot drat, even the first mission on the hardest difficulty can get you plastered if you decide to roll with the secret objective that spawns additional shuttle squad).

I think the best mission was the one you have to double-cross the rogue imperial admiral. The one you fly a Tie Interceptor and start the real mission by shooting your "own" wingman and run for your dear life to reach the imperial fleet perimeter. That was some pure adrenaline to my 15 year old self.

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Can I come out and play?

Sugartime Jones

Galewolf posted:

Agreeing on the best missions being Interceptor ones. Though, I really felt like a baller when completing certain hard missions with TIE Fighter (hot drat, even the first mission on the hardest difficulty can get you plastered if you decide to roll with the secret objective that spawns additional shuttle squad).

I think the best mission was the one you have to double-cross the rogue imperial admiral. The one you fly a Tie Interceptor and start the real mission by shooting your "own" wingman and run for your dear life to reach the imperial fleet perimeter. That was some pure adrenaline to my 15 year old self.

If by pure adrenaline you mean "stark raving terror", I'm right with you. Granted I knew it going in, but still about hurt my hand pulling that joystick around. Though the later mission to capture Harkon was my finest flying for some reason, got every single bonus objective and a ridiculous number of points and was kind of stunned I managed it considering I was usually doing pretty good to snag just the secondaries sometimes.

Filthy Hans posted:

I have to agree with you. Progress in the game should have ended with the TIE Advanced, which basically was Darth Vader's craft. It gave you everything you needed to complete any mission and outclassed anything the Rebels could throw at you. The Defender was overkill and meant that any mission wasn't harder, it would just take longer because you'd have more targets to kill. The of course they released the Missile Boat which was stronger than the entire Rebellion combined, but that's another story.

Sorry, can't regret the TIE Defender, the more targets to kill just meant enjoying the dogfighting longer and feeling awesome. Missile boat was kind of sad though since it was point, let off a ton of missiles, then run away to reload; lack of said dogfighting was too much for me.

quote:

Frankly, I had the most fun in the series flying TIE Interceptors. Take a TIE Fighter, add an extra pair of guns and make it nimbler and just a little bit quicker. Now you can blast anything out of the sky with style but you're still dead meat if you spend half a second out of maneuver. You're special, but not "has shields on his fighter" special. Only Darth Vader rates shields.

Yeah, felt like they just didn't have enough missions in the Interceptor really. Or the Advanced even, it was always the drat gunboat doing everything. I did like not dying when coughed at, but that thing was just too slow to maneuver relative to all the others. Basic TIE fighter I felt like there was enough of, being THAT fragile for too long would have gotten old fast. Interceptor at least made it up to glass cannon rather than just glass, which was fun to roll with.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.



College Slice

I'm uncertain about calling it the best when it's up against powerhouse competitors like this

Emrikol
Sep 30, 2015


The only real problem with TIE Fighter and all of the other games in the series was that sometimes you'd blow up an enemy fighter and its fuselage would defy physics in order to rocket directly backwards at full speed, colliding with you and probably killing you instantly if you had low/no shields.

I don't really know why they did that. I'm guessing wreckage was thrown in random directions, and the collidable hull was included in that, but they really should have had it take direction of travel into account, at least for that one piece.

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

Galewolf posted:

Agreeing on the best missions being Interceptor ones. Though, I really felt like a baller when completing certain hard missions with TIE Fighter (hot drat, even the first mission on the hardest difficulty can get you plastered if you decide to roll with the secret objective that spawns additional shuttle squad).

I think the best mission was the one you have to double-cross the rogue imperial admiral. The one you fly a Tie Interceptor and start the real mission by shooting your "own" wingman and run for your dear life to reach the imperial fleet perimeter. That was some pure adrenaline to my 15 year old self.

Check out the YouTube I posted above of somebody doing all the secret objectives on Hard.

Emrikol posted:

The only real problem with TIE Fighter and all of the other games in the series was that sometimes you'd blow up an enemy fighter and its fuselage would defy physics in order to rocket directly backwards at full speed, colliding with you and probably killing you instantly if you had low/no shields.

I don't really know why they did that. I'm guessing wreckage was thrown in random directions, and the collidable hull was included in that, but they really should have had it take direction of travel into account, at least for that one piece.

This is worst in X-Wing and I need to test my hypothesis that emulating too fast a CPU makes it worse. Too fast a CPU is known to cause bugs with tugs.

Emrikol
Sep 30, 2015


Charles posted:

This is worst in X-Wing and I need to test my hypothesis that emulating too fast a CPU makes it worse. Too fast a CPU is known to cause bugs with tugs.

It was also funnier in X-Wing, because in that game parts tore off as dying ships careened through space instead of disintegrating immediately, so the sudden veering upon death resulted in the entire ship slamming off in some insane and impossible angle, including the ludicrous 180 straight backwards.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010



Nap Ghost

I liked smashing squadrons of Z-95's with a TIE Bomber because it made me feel like the sort of smug bully who would fly for the Empire in the first place.

The Interloper
Jan 11, 2010

- dig that bunky feat -


Salad Prong

Anyone play Star Wars: Starfighter and Jedi Starfighter in the PS2 era? Being the closest thing there was to a continuation of the X-Wing series (as in simply being Star Wars flight games; I kind of doubt they play at all similar), I always wanted to try them but never got around to it. No Rogue Squadron for me as I didn't have a Gamecube and last I checked they didn't even work on Dolphin.

All I remember from like 14 years ago is the demo of Jedi Starfighter where a planetary station is under attack by space ICBMs and you have to defend it while your allies yell about "MISSILLS!" constantly for ten minutes straight as if nobody would notice otherwise, and for some reason they also kept repeatedly talking about somebody named Sol Sixxa who doesn't even appear to be present.

The frantic defense gameplay style was kind of annoying, honestly, and it made me wonder if the whole game(s) would be like that, considering a lot of the missions seemed to involve protecting something according to the magazine guides I saw. At least in XW/TF there was a lot more focus on dogfighting.


Isometric Bacon posted:

That seems to explain a lot. Everytime I've gotten back into the X-wing series over recent years I've found it immensely difficult because of the major dead zones when I want to minutely adjust my target. It's the worst when your very far out and lining up an incoming target (who's also lining you up).

I had this problem when I tried to use a flight joystick, though I mainly put it down to it being a super-cheap 15 generic shitstick. I use a gamepad instead and it's immensely better, so that's my recommendation. I kind of got the feeling that full-size sticks with their long travel wouldn't work very well with the amount of constant small manoeuvring you have to do. Maybe if you have an expensive one with high sensitivity and low resistance, but I don't. No idea if the input worked differently in the past though.

The aiming-related issue I keep running into seems to be a game engine thing where the craft doesn't seem to like pointing at one particular spot in space and will nudge itself away no matter how many times you try to line it up. Enemies seem to end up in that spot a lot more often than they probably should, at least in X-Wing.

Baron von der Loon
Feb 12, 2009

Awesome!


The Interloper posted:

Anyone play Star Wars: Starfighter and Jedi Starfighter in the PS2 era? Being the closest thing there was to a continuation of the X-Wing series (as in simply being Star Wars flight games; I kind of doubt they play at all similar), I always wanted to try them but never got around to it. No Rogue Squadron for me as I didn't have a Gamecube and last I checked they didn't even work on Dolphin.
I remember really enjoying Starfighter. The ships handled differently, I really liked the voice actor of Nym, and the Havoc was a beast to fly with. It's available on Steam, if you want to give it a try.


https://twitter.com/XWingVR/status/1205587213792079872
Came across this little fan-made gem awhile back. It doesn't have HOTAS support yet, but if you have a VR system, it's definitely worth checking out.

Isn't there also a VR Mod for X-Wing Alliance?

Isometric Bacon
Jul 24, 2004

Let's get naked!

Baron von der Loon posted:




https://twitter.com/XWingVR/status/1205587213792079872
Came across this little fan-made gem awhile back. It doesn't have HOTAS support yet, but if you have a VR system, it's definitely worth checking out.

Isn't there also a VR Mod for X-Wing Alliance?

Oooh, I've got to give this a try. There was a awesome Star Wars demo made in unity for the original Oculus Dev kit. This looks similar.

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad

Fun Shoe

voted 5 for the secret order of the emperor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK20enpl1vE

Madurai
Jun 26, 2012



The series' greatest gift to us was the Assault Gunboat, and it's the thing I want to see recanonized more than anything else. GET ON IT, FILONI !

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


Starfighter and Jedi Starfighter are a lot closer to Rogue Squadron.

They're ok.

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008





Galewolf posted:

Agreeing on the best missions being Interceptor ones. Though, I really felt like a baller when completing certain hard missions with TIE Fighter (hot drat, even the first mission on the hardest difficulty can get you plastered if you decide to roll with the secret objective that spawns additional shuttle squad).

I think the best mission was the one you have to double-cross the rogue imperial admiral. The one you fly a Tie Interceptor and start the real mission by shooting your "own" wingman and run for your dear life to reach the imperial fleet perimeter. That was some pure adrenaline to my 15 year old self.

I like how in the game you still get stuck flying a TIE Fighter in some of the later missions. In basically every other space sim I can remember playing, there's a direct linear progression where your ships just get progressively better. But flying for the Empire means climbing into whatever shitbox you're ordered into, no matter how fancy the tattoo on your forearm. If they need an extra TIE Bomber pilot, you're it regardless of your elite skills and record. Who cares if you careened across half the galaxy at light speed last week in an Assault Gunboat and blew up half a dozen Corellian Corvettes in a daring shipyard raid, today there's a pesky asteroid field ruining the admiral's view of a pretty nebula so you're off to pop those rocks in a rickety old TIE Fighter. A lesser design team would have had missions 1-5 be in a Fighter, 6-10 in a Bomber, 11-15 in an Intercepter etc.

Galewolf
Jan 9, 2007



Filthy Hans posted:

I like how in the game you still get stuck flying a TIE Fighter in some of the later missions. In basically every other space sim I can remember playing, there's a direct linear progression where your ships just get progressively better. But flying for the Empire means climbing into whatever shitbox you're ordered into, no matter how fancy the tattoo on your forearm. If they need an extra TIE Bomber pilot, you're it regardless of your elite skills and record. Who cares if you careened across half the galaxy at light speed last week in an Assault Gunboat and blew up half a dozen Corellian Corvettes in a daring shipyard raid, today there's a pesky asteroid field ruining the admiral's view of a pretty nebula so you're off to pop those rocks in a rickety old TIE Fighter. A lesser design team would have had missions 1-5 be in a Fighter, 6-10 in a Bomber, 11-15 in an Intercepter etc.

Oh yeah, absolutely this. The advanced ships are like just tastings, not the main course and switching from flying the Imperial Gundam (Tie Defender) one mission and having to face the same enemies in a Tie Interceptor is a wonderful difficulty scaling and made me feel like a baller.

I also liked Tie Bomber missions because you had to play more tactically and order your wingman around, have some battlefield awareness in order to not get tailed by X-Wings, resupply in the middle of the battle and even join the dogfights with your flying paperweight with single laser cannon.

One thing I didn't knew was calling in reinforcements reducing your score so no wonder why I never maxed out my inner circle ranks because I used to call reinforcements right away in any mission they were available.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012






Madurai posted:

The series' greatest gift to us was the Assault Gunboat, and it's the thing I want to see recanonized more than anything else. GET ON IT, FILONI !

I think it was by ffg

Madurai
Jun 26, 2012



HootTheOwl posted:

I think it was by ffg

FFG will put anything in plastic, though.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005


[snip]Wrong thread.[/snip]

AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jan 29, 2020

Fargin Icehole
Feb 18, 2011

Pet me.


This game was phenomenal, and it's a crime that there isn't someone out there willing to remake it and not fill it with bullshit.

Best we got that comes kinda close is House of the Dying sun

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

It baffles me that nerds will piss 150 million into a PC game that I think everyone knew deep down was never going to come out; but studios still won't fund a space sim because console gamers might not get into it.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


Don Dongington posted:

It baffles me that nerds will piss 150 million into a PC game that I think everyone knew deep down was never going to come out; but studios still won't fund a space sim because console gamers might not get into it.

If you won't make all the money ever then what's the point?

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

Given the amount of nostaliga-poisoned gen x/older millennials tripping over their dicks to get into Cyberpunk 2077/the new VTMB sequel, I'd say it's a demo worth pillaging.

Most of them will blow their $60 on it, play it for 3 days, and then remember they don't have time for video games any more between kids sports, crushing office hours, and actually spending time with their family. But there's like 50 million of them so it doesn't loving matter.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird

Don Dongington posted:

Given the amount of nostaliga-poisoned gen x/older millennials tripping over their dicks to get into Cyberpunk 2077/the new VTMB sequel, I'd say it's a demo worth pillaging.

Most of them will blow their $60 on it, play it for 3 days, and then remember they don't have time for video games any more between kids sports, crushing office hours, and actually spending time with their family. But there's like 50 million of them so it doesn't loving matter.

I said a few years ago that we've entered the golden age of pandering to Millennial Childhoods and I've kind of yet to be proven wrong. Everything old that you loved when you were a kid is new again and rebooted for your nostalgia pleasure in glorious high definition this time. And some of it actually doesn't suck.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

Synthwave is pretty kickass. Star Wars sequels not so much.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012






Don Dongington posted:

Sithwave is pretty kickass. Star Wars sequels not so much.

Nebalebadingdong
Jun 30, 2005


hell yeah tie fighter thread

really the only things TIE Fighter needed was a way to do some more fancy flying (but not go full sim with it) and the later missions get too easy because the TIE defender is ridiculous. and also the missile boat is dumb and boring

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



So this and the armada threat have me wondering, are there any games where you're directing fleet-scale battles in 3d space?

MJP
Jun 17, 2007

Are you looking at me Senpai?

Grimey Drawer

ItBreathes posted:

So this and the armada threat have me wondering, are there any games where you're directing fleet-scale battles in 3d space?

Seconding this, I've started reading the Honor Harrington books and by God is it a good Space Battles Capital Ships In Space book. Doubly so if you liked Horatio Hornblower books.

I would kill a human for the Star Wars fleet combat PC game

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Empire at War came out in 2006 but it's undergone a minor modding renaissance lately -- check out the Empire at War Remake and the Thrawn's Revenge/Fall of the Republic mods on the Steam Workshop. The ground battles are garbage though, just spam AT-ATs and autoresolve

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

ninjahedgehog posted:

Empire at War came out in 2006 but it's undergone a minor modding renaissance lately -- check out the Empire at War Remake and the Thrawn's Revenge/Fall of the Republic mods on the Steam Workshop. The ground battles are garbage though, just spam AT-ATs and autoresolve

If you're the Rebels I just spawn a bunch of Snow Speeders and slowly destroy everything. I only play on easy, otherwise is just a slog, so they don't build much AA stuff.

I still play that game though. Vanilla. I really like it.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



ninjahedgehog posted:

Empire at War came out in 2006 but it's undergone a minor modding renaissance lately -- check out the Empire at War Remake and the Thrawn's Revenge/Fall of the Republic mods on the Steam Workshop. The ground battles are garbage though, just spam AT-ATs and autoresolve

That does look pretty cool, but it looks like it's all on a flat plane. I'm hankering for something in full 3d space, where you / the enemy can attack from any directions, hide behind objects, etc. Full on enders game directions are arbitrary kinda deal.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012






ItBreathes posted:

So this and the armada threat have me wondering, are there any games where you're directing fleet-scale battles in 3d space?

Homeworld?

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


Yeah Homeworld and its sequels are pretty much where it's at for full 3D fleet actions. Gearbox did a Homeworld Remastered re-release a while back that makes Homeworld 2 more compatible with modern versions of Windows, and also ports in the Homeworld 1 content into the HW2/remastered engine.

I think there's a Star Wars mod for it... also a Lego space mod for it, I think called Brickspace lol.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


ItBreathes posted:

So this and the armada threat have me wondering, are there any games where you're directing fleet-scale battles in 3d space?

Homeworld, House of the Dying Sun, Flotilla.

Homeworld does a really cool thing where all the units have their own little radio chatter that's not overpowering, but manages to paint this whole autioscape of a whole army fighting all at once. Homeworld: Cataclysm (or Homeworld: Emergence now) is my favorite game out of the Homeworld series, although the original game has its own unique and timeless appeal. Cataclysm gives each class of unit its own unique voice, where the miners are grizzled old men, the scouts are cheery young women, mimics are creepy as hell, hive frigates are calm, destroyers are gung-ho marine types, it all ends up feeling very personal.

Somtaaw 4 lyfe.

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009

Postin in the springtime




I loved the radio chatter in homeworld and the concept of 3d space battle RTS but I'll admit i never got very far in it

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



I need to get back into HotDS, but it's not quite what I'm looking for. I'll have to check out homeworld. Thanks y'all.

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Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


nine-gear crow posted:

I said a few years ago that we've entered the golden age of pandering to Millennial Childhoods and I've kind of yet to be proven wrong. Everything old that you loved when you were a kid is new again and rebooted for your nostalgia pleasure in glorious high definition this time. And some of it actually doesn't suck.

So I get my monkey paw wish where we get a Freespace 3, but it sucks rear end? Fair enough

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