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Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



blackshreds posted:

I’m guessing it would not be advisable to try to play this with an Xbox controller?

It's not pleasant.

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mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Optimus_Rhyme posted:

I just want a mod where you play through the X-wing novels. Not the bad ones, but the good ones with Wraith Squadron and the horse and Ewok pilots.

If we're doing the good novels, throw in Alphabet Squadron. Decent-to-good characters, plus I could see the missions unfolding in-engine as I was reading.

Nebalebadingdong
Jun 30, 2005


blackshreds posted:

Iím guessing it would not be advisable to try to play this with an Xbox controller?

i dont know but it SOUNDS fuckin' gross

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4qHsisO1K8

X-Wing VR.

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

I can't find it now but I remember as a kid finding some comment in the game files for the original XvT that was like "tie defender is too op eat poo poo fan boys"

I think i'm going to try and find it because its probably hilarious

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


blackshreds posted:

Iím guessing it would not be advisable to try to play this with an Xbox controller?

I've been playing X-Wing with an Xbox360 controller, sometimes the lack of fine control can be a bother but after you get used to it, it works well enough.

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Yep I found it, this is from the original unpatched version of XvT

code:
*TIE Defender (T/D)
Sienar Fleet Systems
Empire
Advanced space superiority fighter. This craft is too powerful to be put in this simulation. Dream on, fanboy!
Then they just added it in BoP

Other gems:
code:
*Missile Boat (MIS)
Cygnus Spaceworks
Empire
Advanced space superiority fighter. This is the King Hell God Emperor Starfighter of Death and you can't fly it yet!
*Sat3
Mesens Corp.
Various
Blah, blah psuedo-techno jargon BS for fanboys with no life.
0
*Sat4
Mesens Corp.
Various
More blah, blah psuedo-techno jargon BS for fanboys with no life.
0
*Sat5
Mesens Corp.
Various
Still more blah, blah psuedo-techno jargon BS for fanboys with no life.
*Mine4
Arakyd Industries
Various
Even more blah, blah psuedo-techno jargon BS for fanboys with no life.
0
*Mine5
Arakyd Industries
Various
You can't believe there's any more blah, blah psuedo-techno jargon BS for fanboys with no life.
0

Spookydonut fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Apr 5, 2020

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008


I have a Thurstmaster T16000m with pedals and HOTAS. Do you guys know how I can implement throttle control and rudder into the game? I saw something about using TARGET software but donít know if it works. I would love to get back into these games if I can just use multiple controllers.

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

dialhforhero posted:

I have a Thurstmaster T16000m with pedals and HOTAS. Do you guys know how I can implement throttle control and rudder into the game? I saw something about using TARGET software but donít know if it works. I would love to get back into these games if I can just use multiple controllers.

Only xwing alliance has actual throttle + rudder support, xwing vs tie has only throttle support.

You can do janky rebinds and mappings to have the joystick emulate keypresses if you're dedicated.

I kinda hope someone else pops in here and reveals some super awesome community patch that fixes all this though.

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

Spookydonut posted:

Only xwing alliance has actual throttle + rudder support, xwing vs tie has only throttle support.

You can do janky rebinds and mappings to have the joystick emulate keypresses if you're dedicated.

I kinda hope someone else pops in here and reveals some super awesome community patch that fixes all this though.

I think XvT only does 0, 33, 66, and 100% throttle too? Or maybe that's the Windows 95 versions of the older games, I don't remember exactly.

You'd have to keymap the axises and I don't recall if there's a dedicated key on the keyboard for roll? It was usually a toggle with Button 2. Maybe the keypad?

Just have to hope that XWVM comes out some day soon.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


Started playing TIE-Fighter recently and holy poo poo what diabolical rear end in a top hat came up with mines that instantly loose a missile when you destroy them

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Charles posted:

I think XvT only does 0, 33, 66, and 100% throttle too? Or maybe that's the Windows 95 versions of the older games, I don't remember exactly.

You'd have to keymap the axises and I don't recall if there's a dedicated key on the keyboard for roll? It was usually a toggle with Button 2. Maybe the keypad?

Just have to hope that XWVM comes out some day soon.

XvT has true axis mapping for a throttle axis, but not for a rudder axis. rudder is x-axis unless you hold the target acquire button which changes x-axis to roll, yes. XWA added a proper axis mapping for roll + rudder but it defaults to XvT style so you have your left/right stick as rudder and your rudder controls roll, and even if you switch those holding target acquire button flips them

Sombrerotron
Aug 1, 2004

Release my children! My hat is truly great and mighty.



Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Started playing TIE-Fighter recently and holy poo poo what diabolical rear end in a top hat came up with mines that instantly loose a missile when you destroy them
At least in TIE Fighter you could promptly target any incoming missiles with spacebar and actually shoot them. In X-Wing I'd always be frantically hitting T to find the warhead and then spend a precious 30 seconds or so avoiding it because it was impossible to blow up.

edit: actually I might be misremembering that - maybe it wasn't even possible to target missiles in X-Wing at all?

Bedshaped
Apr 1, 2010




Soiled Meat

What made TF better than XWvTF or XW or XWA?

I only ever played XWA and I was obsessed with it. Never understood why nobody seems to talk about it compared to TF.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008


I tried a TARGET profile and maybe because I never have used it but even after turning it off my computer didnít recognize the throttle/pedal combo as a separate device and I had to replug them in.

Also I forgot that in all of these games joy x axis is actually rudder and z is actually roll so I have to redo it anyway.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird

Bedshaped posted:

What made TF better than XWvTF or XW or XWA?

I only ever played XWA and I was obsessed with it. Never understood why nobody seems to talk about it compared to TF.

XWA gets an unearned bad rap for "killing" the whole space fighter sim genre when really it came out at the tail end of an already declining era and was actually the culmination of everything Lawrence Holland's team had learned since X-Wing. It is a very good game that became a footnote through circumstance and no real fault of its own.

Everyone talks about TIE Fighter because it was the one that made the huge splash in their cultural memory. It came along at the right time for 90s PC gaming, and it sticks out still to this day because it was the one and only Star Wars game that let you play for the Empire all the way through and do it unapologetically. Compared to that, the other ones are just more typical Star Wars games.

Sombrerotron
Aug 1, 2004

Release my children! My hat is truly great and mighty.



nine-gear crow posted:

XWA gets an unearned bad rap for "killing" the whole space fighter sim genre when really it came out at the tail end of an already declining era and was actually the culmination of everything Lawrence Holland's team had learned since X-Wing. It is a very good game that became a footnote through circumstance and no real fault of its own.

Everyone talks about TIE Fighter because it was the one that made the huge splash in their cultural memory. It came along at the right time for 90s PC gaming, and it sticks out still to this day because it was the one and only Star Wars game that let you play for the Empire all the way through and do it unapologetically. Compared to that, the other ones are just more typical Star Wars games.
Besides that, I feel TIE Fighter just had a more compelling narrative than XWA, with all the political intrigue and backstabbing going on within the Empire and the personal - and vital - role you come to play in it. Also, you get to fly more exciting craft than in XWA, really.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008


Sombrerotron posted:

Besides that, I feel TIE Fighter just had a more compelling narrative than XWA, with all the political intrigue and backstabbing going on within the Empire and the personal - and vital - role you come to play in it. Also, you get to fly more exciting craft than in XWA, really.

The storyline was great. It also incorporated a ton of the EU content which was big at the time. It also was, or felt, a little dynamic based on just how successful you were with the bonus objectives.

XvsTIE was more of a skirmish mp game. XWA owns and I donít know who would say otherwise. It is the best Ďoverallí, but because sp is the main gig in these games TIE was the most original and compelling.

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

Bedshaped posted:

What made TF better than XWvTF or XW or XWA?

I only ever played XWA and I was obsessed with it. Never understood why nobody seems to talk about it compared to TF.

Oh I love X-Wing Alliance, I've replayed it as much as TIE Fighter.

As for why TIE Fighter is better than X-Wing:
X-wing was a great start, but it was really hard. TIE Fighter was mostly more balanced and had an adjustable difficulty level.
TF also added:
  • in mission voice messages, so you get updates on what's going on
  • Messages appear in real-time, instead of repeating old ones over and over again, which was very confusing, and you have a message log
  • Way better targeting controls & information (e.g. Z-key, 3d display) so you can tell which flight group is attacking the craft you are supposed to protect, etc
  • Mission goals hotkey, which helps you keep track of the mission. Also, secondary objectives so you can feel like a badass, and hidden bonus objectives
  • Reversing the Rebel's theme to a minor key and making it sound evil when their ships show up was just so cool, making the Imperial theme heroic too
  • More interactive briefing officers with side plots
Overall it just polished the X-Wing formula to make it appealing to the masses.

XvT didn't have any campaign mode when it launched which disappointed people who loved TF's story. edit: Also XvT wouldn't launch without a joystick which made some people angry.

Sombrerotron
Aug 1, 2004

Release my children! My hat is truly great and mighty.



I think XWA also got a little overshadowed at the time by the Freespace games. Having played those for the first time recently, though, I can confidently say that XWA deserved much, much better.

Anarcho-Commissar
May 22, 2002

"The means of production being the collective work of humanity, the product should be the collective property of the race. Individual appropriation is neither just nor serviceable. All belongs to all."
- Pyotr Kropotkin



Did X-Wing have the adaptive music, too? That always stuck out with me with TIE Fighter.

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

Anarcho-Commissar posted:

Did X-Wing have the adaptive music, too? That always stuck out with me with TIE Fighter.

yes

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


Charles posted:

Oh I love X-Wing Alliance, I've replayed it as much as TIE Fighter.

As for why TIE Fighter is better than X-Wing:
X-wing was a great start, but it was really hard. TIE Fighter was mostly more balanced and had an adjustable difficulty level.
TF also added:
  • in mission voice messages, so you get updates on what's going on
  • Messages appear in real-time, instead of repeating old ones over and over again, which was very confusing, and you have a message log
  • Way better targeting controls & information (e.g. Z-key, 3d display) so you can tell which flight group is attacking the craft you are supposed to protect, etc
  • Mission goals hotkey, which helps you keep track of the mission. Also, secondary objectives so you can feel like a badass, and hidden bonus objectives
  • Reversing the Rebel's theme to a minor key and making it sound evil when their ships show up was just so cool, making the Imperial theme heroic too
  • More interactive briefing officers with side plots
Overall it just polished the X-Wing formula to make it appealing to the masses.

XvT didn't have any campaign mode when it launched which disappointed people who loved TF's story. edit: Also XvT wouldn't launch without a joystick which made some people angry.

TIE Fighter also has a hell of a lot more variation in spacecraft and space stations. For example, in X-Wing there are several missions where they say something like "you need to protect this manufacturing facility, which is made out of converted cargo containers" because that's the only large stationary space structure in the game. Also there are only four warships in the whole game: the Imperial Star Destroyer, the Calamari Cruiser, the Nebulon-B Frigate, and the Corellian Corvette (the latter two doing double-duty as both Imperial and Rebel warships). TIE Fighter adds a lot more variation all around.

That said, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking X-Wing at all - it came out on floppy disk in 1993 and, if I remember right, was supposed to be able to run on a 286. There are obviously significant technical limitations in play there.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014



College Slice

nine-gear crow posted:


Everyone talks about TIE Fighter because it was the one that made the huge splash in their cultural memory. It came along at the right time for 90s PC gaming, and it sticks out still to this day because it was the one and only Star Wars game that let you play for the Empire all the way through and do it unapologetically. Compared to that, the other ones are just more typical Star Wars games.

TIE Fighter also had a really great story that tied in with the then-newly successful Star Wars EU (Thrawn!). I was playing it at the same time I first read those novels and seeing ol' red eyes there in a cutscene was amazing. It's also the first game I can remember where you were one of the bad guys and it was glorious. You come away from that game 100% on the side of the Empire.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008


The Wing Commander Series was also solid. Wing Commander III was the overall best even though it isn't the most polished.

Sombrerotron
Aug 1, 2004

Release my children! My hat is truly great and mighty.



When I first played WC3, somewhere in '96 or maybe '97, I thought it was great. A few years later I tried it again, and oof, for me that had not aged well - neither in terms of graphics nor gameplay. Perhaps it's just me, but I find that the X-Wing series just magically gets the space combat (both in terms of flying and shooting) just right much moreso than other vaunted games within the genre.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008


WC4 aged way better than WC3 did, yes. But the story owned. Also having 8 CDs!

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I really liked X-Wing Alliance's story, but it is a little simplistic. TIE Fighter's story was more provocative and had things like integrated challenges within levels that allowed you to get more depth out of the story. XWA is less polished.

But what really killed it was the fact that Rogue Squadron came out in 98 and XWA came out in 99, so XWA had to deal with being behind the technology curve (in ways that seemed more impressive at the time), being an overall slower-paced, and then just being a less accessible game.

And then 4-9 years later Rogue Squadron got killed by corporate mismanagement.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008


So I got a TARGET profile for my Thrustmaster FCS to work. I still need to tweek it with keybinds to my hotas but boy was it awesome to use a full FCS setup

Looking to see if I can mod the Steam versions of the series to be in widescreen now.

Also I put yaw on my pedals and roll on my x axis like a pro.

I wish there was some way to incorporate TrackIR.

dialhforhero fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Apr 28, 2020

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird

SlothfulCobra posted:

I really liked X-Wing Alliance's story, but it is a little simplistic. TIE Fighter's story was more provocative and had things like integrated challenges within levels that allowed you to get more depth out of the story. XWA is less polished.

But what really killed it was the fact that Rogue Squadron came out in 98 and XWA came out in 99, so XWA had to deal with being behind the technology curve (in ways that seemed more impressive at the time), being an overall slower-paced, and then just being a less accessible game.

And then 4-9 years later Rogue Squadron got killed by corporate mismanagement.

X-Wing Allianceís story was at its best when it was focusing on the family missions and drama. It really sagged when you were doing the boring Rebel Alliance stuff. It would have been a much more interesting and better game if you never actually joined the Rebellion and just brushed up against it frequently while plugging away trying to outrun the Empire on your own/with your surviving family.

Voting Floater
May 19, 2019



It's really awkward how the final missions of Alliance are you flying the Falcon at the Battle of Endor. It makes sense from a marketing point of view, but it's so diconnected from the entire rest of the story. You can essentially view the game as having ended in the previous mission and Endor is just a random bonus thrown in.

Flying through the Death Star core was also a royal pain in the rear end. I suppose it accurately translates what flying a big freighter through a narrow construction site would be like (i.e. poo poo), but it doesn't make for a fun experience. I didn't play the later Rogue Squadrons so don't know if they did the same thing, but I would guess that kind of gameplay would work much better in the more casual Rogue Squadron set-up than in a hard flight simulator game.

Napoleon Nelson
Nov 8, 2012


Voting Floater posted:

It's really awkward how the final missions of Alliance are you flying the Falcon at the Battle of Endor. It makes sense from a marketing point of view, but it's so diconnected from the entire rest of the story. You can essentially view the game as having ended in the previous mission and Endor is just a random bonus thrown in.

Flying through the Death Star core was also a royal pain in the rear end. I suppose it accurately translates what flying a big freighter through a narrow construction site would be like (i.e. poo poo), but it doesn't make for a fun experience. I didn't play the later Rogue Squadrons so don't know if they did the same thing, but I would guess that kind of gameplay would work much better in the more casual Rogue Squadron set-up than in a hard flight simulator game.

There were a few of those "flying inside ships/structures" missions and they were all terrible. I guess it was to prepare you for the Death Star, but they were just garbage. I'd always rotate to slightly the wrong angle for the exit and explode trying to leave.

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

At least with the XWAUpgrade it's made harder by the fact that the cockpit is on the far right. For the one where you steal the shuttle Tyderium it's not that bad. Just use external view as you fly in.

Sombrerotron
Aug 1, 2004

Release my children! My hat is truly great and mighty.



I seem to recall becoming particularly frustrated around the Death Star's core, because the Empire had apparently either foreseen this avenue of attack or really despised some of its soldiers, resulting in a swarm of extremely difficult-to-hit zero-G troopers floating around the chamber and giving me hell.

Mr. Grapes!
Feb 12, 2007
Mr. who?

I played through the entirety of TIE Fighter before I had ever even seen a Star Wars movie. I came out of it firmly indoctrinated into the Empire and honestly, I still can't really shake it. My friend and I played through TIE Fighter at a pretty young age and it required both of us flying the same ship to make it through. One of us held the joystick and handled the piloting and gunning, while the other was "R-2" who managed the power-shifting, target selection, weapon switching, radio commands, etc.

I have since seen every Star Wars movie but I totally root for the Empire all the time (I love Chewie + droids though and would prefer they just not get hurt). It makes me sad to see stormtroopers always miss.

I was actually really excited to see The Force Awakens when I heard that one of the main characters was a stormtrooper. I thought it'd be so interesting to see what it was like from their perspective, even if it was some hellish nightmare. It was a drat shame that it was all over a few minutes into the movie. They then go through two sequels where they barely bring it up, except when he needs to pull some information out of nowhere ("I was a Janitor on Death Star III !"). I thought they would go somewhere dark or thought provoking with it, where somehow Finn might feel shame or guilt for just happily blowing up people that he apparently grew up alongside and shared burdens with, who are revealed to be child-soldiers. Nah, he whoops and hollers and has the time of his life while shooting up the hangar bay presumably full of his friends and loved ones and never brings up the idea of even trying to 'liberate' other members of his cadre that might have felt similarly disillusioned with the Empire or whatever. The most compelling villain of the entire sequel trilogy is the guy who yells "TRAITOR!" at Finn and tries to kick his rear end with a lightsaber baton thing.

Same thing in Solo - the part I was most looking forward to was him actually being a TIE fighter pilot or something (I have never read a book, so I am only vaguely aware of his backstory). Instead we get the Somme in Space which was to me at least the most interesting part of the movie but it is over so quickly and back to the usual nonsense.

Anarcho-Commissar
May 22, 2002

"The means of production being the collective work of humanity, the product should be the collective property of the race. Individual appropriation is neither just nor serviceable. All belongs to all."
- Pyotr Kropotkin



Mr. Grapes! posted:

Same thing in Solo - the part I was most looking forward to was him actually being a TIE fighter pilot or something (I have never read a book, so I am only vaguely aware of his backstory). Instead we get the Somme in Space which was to me at least the most interesting part of the movie but it is over so quickly and back to the usual nonsense.

There was a deleted scene about his TIE training, it's out there. Also the Solo: Imperial Cadet comic goes into a lot more.

Also you should read the TIE Fighter comics run they did last year (ties into Alphabet Squadron) was really good.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


That was something I really hated about Force Awakens. The fact that it starts with this really sympathetic moment showing the pathos of life as a stormtrooper, only to turn around and over the course of the rest of the movie brutally murder a bunch of stormtroopers (more brutally than any movie before) as part of the highest death toll of any Star Wars movie (but specifically not the leader with the most blood on her hands. We all know that leaders deserve to be spared but the grunts deserve to be disemboweled). They introduced the idea of sympathy only to punish anybody who dared to feel the feelings that the movie purposefully engendered. Finn's kind of a psychopath to kill his old coworkers so readily (and spare his awful, genocidal boss for marketing and classism reasons).

Otherwise, I might encourage you to not root for the villains, but you do you I guess. There's a lot more stuff that displays the clone troopers' heroism; the only protagonist stormtrooper story I know is Tag and Bink. I do remember reading some comic once that had some imperial officers having their equivalent of the Zulu Wars.

Mr. Grapes!
Feb 12, 2007
Mr. who?

SlothfulCobra posted:

Otherwise, I might encourage you to not root for the villains, but you do you I guess. There's a lot more stuff that displays the clone troopers' heroism; the only protagonist stormtrooper story I know is Tag and Bink. I do remember reading some comic once that had some imperial officers having their equivalent of the Zulu Wars.

I consider just about everybody in Star Wars to be pretty villainous and the war isn't 'realistic' enough for me to actually give a poo poo about the nonexistent politics they are supposedly fighting over. It's not like I'm rooting for Nazis - the Empire is just a collection of cartoonish scenery chewing cranks with lots of cool toys. Most of the terrible things they do are done by the good guys as well. On a surface level everything is PEW PEW WHOOSH WHOA (so who cares?) and if you go deeper analysis then the good guys are pretty awful too (so also doesn't matter). I admit I also root for the orcs in Lord of the Rings. Maybe I just like their design and vibe? Maybe I'm more fascinated by the narrative of someone forced into a lovely situation with the chaos of combat in front of them and a cruel uncaring command structure above them and no possible happy end in sight than the Rah Rah Morally Righteous Stuff?


But yeah, I completely agree with your other thoughts. I do not need yet another videogame or movie about yet another hot-shot X-wing pilot or Dashing Rogue With A Heart Of Gold. A side-movie from the actual perspective of an Imperial that doesn't end in the utterly predictable Rebel-Turn would be tantalizing.

The most shocking thing about TIE Fighter was that you actually remain a loyal Imperial pilot for the entirety of the game.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Anarcho-Commissar posted:

Also you should read the TIE Fighter comics run they did last year (ties into Alphabet Squadron) was really good.

And of course, read Alphabet Squadron. Whoever wrote that knows the X-Wing/TIE Fighter games very well (and it's still a good novel). I could see all the space action sequences in my head as if they were gameplay videos from a kickin rad DLC campaign.

If you're in this thread Alphabet Squadron is extremely your poo poo.

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fever
May 23, 2020


Star Wars Galaxies was pretty good back before SOE broke their tiny manhood off into it with the pre-CU and NGE. Tried a few emulators since, but its just not the same. Yeah, I'm still pretty upset about all that.

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