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FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

PinheadSlim posted:

The sequel trilogy feels like a fan film but with the budget and resources of the real deal, I can never escape this feeling when watching the trilogy.

Also I wanted to poo poo on them for including an extremely normal rear end looking casino in their sci-fi epic, but then I remembered Lucas included an extremely normal rear end looking 50s diner as a plot essential scene in his sci-fi epic.

Stilll, the casino set is not terribly well designed or decorated. I felt like there should have been weird alien fine art all over the place, but the walls are all blank. It looks like a casino from star trek

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FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

When will the story be told?

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Saint Drogo posted:

nvm the lightsabre, remember when we thought this character would have reasons to exist?

Here is her reason to exist: She helped leia steal a bounty hunter's armor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thOQwKCm-IY

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
Maybe he's a hologram? He's a hologram in most of the other ones, and he's kinda blue

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
Is there a lot of the Wizard of Oz in these new movies?


Rey starts on a sepia depression world with a little dog, for example, meets three male comedians who take her to see the Wizard of Maz,



Who lives in a castle on an emerald planet and gives everyone a useless trinket to give them confidence (Luke Skywalker's Lightsaber)



Rey is then captured by the Wicked Witch of the West and taken to a castle planet where three goofballs and one in a fursuit have to go save her.

There's also like specific imagery with Snoke, from his throne room to his whole deal being a big holographic head. There may not be much to this but it feels like theres a little.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

nine-gear crow posted:

People like to forget that Rian Johnson also directed Ozymandias, the best episode of Breaking Bad, and according to a lot of people, the best episode of television in history...

And yet, he's no Michelle MacLaren.


FWIW I actually cannot think of any modern director who fits the weird commercial auteur status Lucas and company had in the day. Rian is probably both the closest and the best choice despite his understandable inability to mine a good film out of a desperate corporate mandate.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Cease to Hope posted:

It seems to be what Disney is attempting to cultivate lately, with mixed results. taika waititi maybe?


It's fundamentally impossible for them to cultivate an anti-establishment filmmaker, which is nice. I don't get the Taika hype.


Ghost Leviathan posted:

Lord and Miller?

They're OK! But are they really Auteurs? I feel like if they were we'd have a little more Clone High and a lot less The Lego Movies.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Cease to Hope posted:

I don't think Lucas was ever an antiestablishment filmmaker! Waititi has a distinct authorial (auteurial?) voice that comes through even with Disney's relentless branding machine, I would say.

Well whether his ad copy is an accurate reflection of the kind of filmmaker he is or was, Lucas at least seems to think he was anti-hollywood and in his career took tons of steps to maintain creative control of his work. So much that is establishment now is a result of that rebellious energy, not just from George, and whatever Watiti's strength as a filmmaker he seems content to work within that system, Unlike Lucas, Coppola, Walt Disney, and many others.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

CainFortea posted:

Lucas and Disney only wanted to change the system because they wanted to BE the system. Which they are now.

So how the hell can you restrike that lightning. Who has that fire?

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
Conversely you can imagine the people making these movies, including but not limited to george and steven, as a group of friends who fell into big commercial success and had a blast going on a one time great ride. All the actors and the crew, all the special effects dudes and puppeteers, the editors and a couple of the monty python people and that poo poo. There's a story Carrie Fisher tells where the whole cast were all up all night drinking with monty python the night before the cloud city shoot. They all probably had drama, people got together and or divorced, and they all signed each other's yearbooks at the end of production. Jim Henson is there at the wrap party with his evil bong, the guys who blew up the death star blow a bunch of poo poo up in a field, and some people realize they're alive for the first time.

Anyway, now the board of directors hires the guy who makes movies for very cheap and puts them in a computer simulated lab environment to direct hypercompetent droves of filmmaker/animators, gives them a script and then re-edits the whole thing with a new director after they decide what they don't like. It is marketed as an attempt to replicate the first thing, the rise of skywalker's bonus footage is mostly footage behind the scenes of the OT. There are parties but they aren't very good.


CainFortea posted:

What does that have to do with the price of butter?

Part of the pursuit of money is the pursuit of a hard to sell idea. Having the money means having creative control. The drive to raise that money for that specific, individual idea is a different sort of thing than being paid to have someone's old idea.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

CainFortea posted:

Okay, so you said "So much that is establishment now is a result of that rebellious energy..."

I pointed out that it wasn't rebellious energy, it was simply them wanting to change who was on top.

How can either of us actually pretend to know their real motivation? To me it seems like they were young and wanted to start some poo poo, and that they lucked into most of it, and changed some stuff for a while. I'm sure they wanted to change the pecking order, but isn't that what sparks real rebellions? Are rebels typically satisfied with their social standing?

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Some Goon posted:

George just wanted to make films. Like, he was smart about it, but it seems more than anything he is/was just a film nerd.

Walt...wanted to take over the world?

Walt probably lucked into everything too, despite the fact he successfully took over California.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Dude for all intents and purposes was basically a supervillain.

I wonder if he and Bob Hope were in some kind of villains league together

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Tulip posted:

Outside of film geeks like us going "why they gently caress did so much money/labor get flushed down the drain on such a bankrupt project," everybody who has any emotion about the sequels only actually has opinions on TLJ lmao

Finn doing a 360 on his morality in the first like 20 minutes was probably the moment where I completely checked out.


If Heroes had simply flat ended at the end of S1 it would have been fine, or if later seasons had focused on "normal people getting super powers and having trouble with it" with a new cast each season that also would have been fun. The characters weren't actually any good but if you didn't spend too long with them that's not that big of a deal.

I never watched this show, but I'm curious to find out if they saved the cheerleader

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

This was cool. I'll give it to this.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
I want the Wookiepediesque explanation for the hair. Is there a thermal machine that schporches your hair a certain color of the spectrum? Is the dye made of bantha venom? Or did she go to the store, get a box of purple dye, and do it in her sink on board the republic starship?

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Bogus Adventure posted:

It's because the Sequel Trilogy had the build up of the WWF's mystery egg gimmick, and landed with the same grace and effect as gimmick's reveal.



There is no better wrestler than the gobbledy gooker

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
Master Yoda will be in Avatar 2. Mark my words.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
For all the poo poo the prequels get, imagine if Solo had come out instead of Phantom Menace

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Cease to Hope posted:

swords at dawn in the prequeldome

THREE BAD MOVIES ENTER, MANY BAD POSTS LEAVE

My jedi handicap is that I only watched the first 20 minutes of solo and then turned on scarey movie 2.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
It's like, they had two scenes in a row where a character ham-fistedly names another character, and their names are han solo and chewbacca, and then you realize you can step away from it all

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Cease to Hope posted:

Solo: A Shaggy Dog Story

Harrison Ford is turned into a shaggy dog, ala Tim Allen

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Cease to Hope posted:

That would be a good example of the tight interlinks that end up making every interation feel like there's no distinction between interactions between relatives and interactions between everyone else.

Well, we ARE all one in the arms of the living force

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
You ever think the grift was to put 3-5 crappy movies in theaters so as to motivate interest in Streaming Exclusive The Mandalorian And New Clone Wars Also

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

josh04 posted:

It didn't work, I've only seen three of the movies and I still don't own a Disney+

Well neither did I, but what of the unwashed masses?

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
Phil's knocking at my door, every day, trying to get a discount on his Disney Plus account by recommending a friend. I don't know why he doesn't try any of the other doors, or why he wouldn't accept the five dollars it would cost in the form of cash, but if he REALLY wants to sell me, he needs to take a shower.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
This is a qubi household. End of story.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

SlothfulCobra posted:

Well, ostensibly the throughline of the first movie was the Resistance risking their lives just to get the USB drive of where Luke was, and then Rey was the person they sent on that high-priority mission, so I assume that she had some kind of standing. Or they just kinda decided to abandon the thing they spent all last movie doing for no real reason because nobody at any point ever planned where the series would go.

Chewbacca is also there, but at no point does anything to imply that he has any duties beyond flying the ship.

He doesnt eat a chicken

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Halloween Jack posted:

No, it couldn't. It's an inherently bad idea for Star Wars.

Star Wars is essentially political, and has a degree of social realism that's lacking in, say, Burroughs' Barsoom. All those Death Stars and lightsabers have to come from somewhere; this is emphasized when we learn that they run on the same nonrenewable resources. The stupidest thing in Rise of Skywalker isn't that Palpatine can use the Force to disable a fleet of ships, but that he built a fleet of ships in the galactic equivalent of North Sentinel Island.

This understanding is present in the major influences on Star Wars. The Comanches who abducted John Wayne's niece weren't bug-men from another dimension, they were indigenous people suffering under colonialism. Jesus didn't come to Ben Hur from the moon; he came from an oppressed ethnoreligious minority.

The conference room scene in ANH explains that the purpose of the Death Star is to be the One Weird Trick that makes fascism sustainable. Totalitarianism is hideously inefficient--nightmarish bureaucracy, people only working because they're held at gunpoint, and the skyrocketing cost of policing everywhere all the time. The Death Star allows you to literally hold everyone in the galaxy at gunpoint.

As an example, let's say that the big threat was the Chiss Ascendancy, launching an attack from their little kingdom past the Outer Rim. Okay, but where did they get the industrial capacity to do that? What was the Empire doing while they did it? It would be like the remake of Red Dawn where North Korea somehow invades and occupies the United States.

The entire point of the prequel trilogy is that fascism didn't come out of nowhere. It was the result of various forms of social rot, exploited by someone with vision (however terrible), and it was welcomed by a lot of people who wanted change. From the Republic and the Separatists, to the Empire, to the New Republic, people in this setting understand themselves to be part of a global ("galactic") society. All these star wars keep happening because of these global conflicts. Having a huge army just appear out of the "Unknown Regions" is deliberately jettisoning all the themes of Star Wars so you can have a big dumb space fight without actually writing a story. That sort of thing is actually far more appropriate to Star Trek than Star Wars.

Aye, but what would the social realist of something unknowable be? Say a giant death star eating gorilla appeared, and before the rebels got too glad the gorilla starts popping x wings into his mouth like M&Ms. This would cause huge social and economic upheaval, confusion, strange new alliances, bicycle thieves, gaps in supply chains, insurrections, and everything down from that. And how would you approach that spiritually, with "the force?" it is to ask.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Grendels Dad posted:

Right, these are just the times for "We must forge an alliance with the Space Nazis to fight the giant gorilla" type stories.

The giant gorilla ate most of the space nazis. He also ate most of anybody else who was on a ship, Warrior Merchant or Man. He eats machines and factories. Droids are on the run.

TATOOINE, with its underground means and methods of trade, has become a new capital. CORUSCANT, the jewel of the republic, stands a wreck. Soup lines are everywhere. Famine abounds.

In these worst of times, powerful rival gangs of JEDI, SEPERATISTS and LOYALISTS have risen, each with their own vision for the future of democracy, and the GALAXY....


Then you pan down, see coruscant in the poo poo, like in that movie they didn't use. Buildings are a mess, but there's also grass growing back everywhere so it's got that going on for it. And there's flags and clotheslines and there's still life, there's people rounding up votes for elections and that's our protag, a Youngling who can't get anyone to take his Jedi flyers. The election's also gangs of new york level crooked, people get their arms chopped off, there's like a tamany hall machine, but then a bunch of commandments or like a code of hammurabi appear scorched on one of the buildings in a lightsaber. nobody knows who done it, there is a furious search but none can find. more appear despite efforts, and eventually i think the deal is multiple people make rules and cross them out and it becomes like the silly beginning of a democracy, the protagonist meets the og artist and she is a graffiti jedi, who hatched a bright idea. But really, the tamany machine does not like it at all and they start sending hits out on people, same with the organized leadership of the respective gangs. Just spitballin here

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

nine-gear crow posted:

Well, I guess now that Sequeldome is back, it should be pointed out that a study was done recently analyzing over 1 million tweets and 1,000 YouTube videos talking about Star Wars, and it turns out that the people who are screaming the loudest about Star Wars on the internet are all alt-right assholes who have clear problems with women and people of colour existing.

Weird, huh?

I wonder how many of them got money from bisney from creating you tube videos

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
Today I considered, they brought Frank Oz to do a puppet in the last jedi when he has not done puppets in 20 years. Why was he not a choice to direct? He directed one of the all time puppet effect movies ever! He probably could have done it for half the budget!!

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Bogus Adventure posted:

Imagine loving Force Fraggles explaining that they are midichlorians using people as avatars in the fight between Good and Evil!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DobSmOHMBe8

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Cease to Hope posted:

he's in his 70s and basically retired

He put out two documentaries in the past four years. Granted, Star wars would be a lot more work and a huge waste of his time. But he could have made the what about bob of star wars: Rey is completely dutiful to snoke and destroys the first order. The special effects could be "out of this world"

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

indigi posted:

nobody wants to do things for half the budget. producers and execs all want to be able to list enormously bloated budgets next to their projects to prove how much of a big deal they are


the Force isn't about good vs evil it's about balance

Well, gently caress them! what they want could kill an elephant.

And I posted a clip of it already, but y'all REALLY should watch the Dark Crystal. It's about a lot of these themes and goes further in one film than any star wars does, except maybe phantom menace but can you imagine if henson had directed a prequel. Jim Henson's Phantom Menace. It's spiritual like the force is but importantly comes from the heart of a person who seems to have had an easier time navigating the "force." If he had lived he probably would not have bothered though and mnde several films other that would unlock new potentials, of the human mind.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

SlothfulCobra posted:

The Dark Crystal was incredibly weird. Jim Henson was an amazing filmaker, but he never really managed to crack drama. He managed to create a whole weird crazy world with piles of lore, but extremely little of that lore is in the movie and the actual plot isn't really delivered well.

I wonder what Henson would've thought about CGI. He made his career in practical effects, but was pretty constantly on the cutting edge of what was possible.

I gotta differ! This film is moody as hell and everything you need to know is right on the screen. If it were more dramatic in a way you expect a movie to be dramatic it would lower the distance between you and the place. The Dark Crystal with a "good plot" is Avatar.

And he did do cg! He was doing weird computer muppets and stuff right before he died.

Grendels Dad posted:

For a world as wonderfully rich in lore, I found the Dark Crystal world strangely empty. You got miles and miles of forest with wildlife and whatnot and that part is great and feels alive, but it never feels like a world with more sentient beings in it than the handful of characters we see. The Skeksis are evil and that obviously sucks for that one Fraggle village they keep raiding, but it only ever seems to be about the Skeksis and the Fraggles and then there are about a dozen other characters on the planet and that's it.

The planet is dying, there ARE only a dozen other characters.



Really you shouldn't miss the forest for the trees on something like this. So much I hear complaints about works that are inaccessible or incomplete, but it may be that these are doing exactly the thing intended: activating your imagination! How could you even imagine a better dark crystal, if this bizarre theater company had not poured so much into producing it. They built an astrolabe!!

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

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Barudak posted:

You have a more control then people tend to think about (early action execution is a big deal alongside atb autorefresh), but ultimately its a radical shift in how a battle is managed so if it doesn't work I get it but disagree.

The sequels don't even have that. Theres nothing in them for me to hold onto. Everything is a mess at best and actively, purposefully misleading in order to score cheap points at worst and frequently. It is a franchise built on battles that can't put in the effort to show them or make them sensible.

The most positive thing about the films is that Ian McDirmid delivers absolutely every single one of his horrendous lines with such panache you can let them flow over you without getting bogged down by them.

Alright then wiseguy, riddle me this. How would YOU fix the combat system in the force awakens

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

Barudak posted:

All fights in the film replaced with a round of a children's card game

Now we're playing...with the heart of the cards!

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FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

SlothfulCobra posted:

But what kind of D6?



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