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Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

it's such a nonspecific burn that you can apply it to pretty much anything

If RotS has better burns than you, you gotta question your path. Are you a poster... or a poser?

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Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

nine-gear crow posted:

People like to forget that Rian Johnson also directed Ozymandias, the best episode of Breaking Bad, and according to a lot of people, the best episode of television in history...

Those people forget that there was a whole show preceding that episode. It was a fantastic episode, mind you.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

A Gnarlacious Bro posted:

George Lucas was a pretty obvious pedophile imo

Because he made movies in the USA?

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Lemniscate Blue posted:

Because Indiana Jones hosed Marion when she was a child (Lucas specifically wanted her to have been 12) and when she calls him on it it's treated like a lovers' spat and she's being unreasonable. Then she falls in love with her abuser again.

Oh poo poo, right. That.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

If you meet a Star Wars on your path, kill it.

Not cosplayers though, that would be murder.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

nine-gear crow posted:

Yes, Rey turns into a Star Wars Fan when Han Solo shows up, who’s suddenly very knowledgeable about the events of the Star Wars Film Franchise despite living along on a backwater desert world her whole life.

The Force told her!

The Force is like the Internet.

We are all Force users.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

CelticPredator posted:

kill it, actually

TLJ has made it plenty clear that history is pretty swell, the present sucks and needs to die.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

If Marvel ever introduces Hercules and if they ever include Ares I hope they also have the balls to somehow include Ares' "You want the other god of war" speech,

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Hodgepodge posted:

check out this awesome poo poo from the 5th century poem Dionysiaca:

*Sheev cracks his knuckles*

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

It's true that Star Wars always had silly hairdos for the few ladies on screen, people still make fun of Leia's Danish-rear end buns to this day... on the other hand, the Danish-rear end buns were at least colored normally, imagine if Leia in RotJ had weird Brigitte Nielsen hair.

edit to make my point clear, I think it's ok to complain about Holdo's lovely hair and am tired of that complaint being framed as a chud thing every single time it comes up.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Sanguinia posted:

Do me a favor and google Queen Amidala, and then tell me how complaints about Holdo's hair having the audacity to be purple is not loving dumb.

I have no idea what point you think you are making here, people tore into Amidala's outfits a lot. Admittedly they tended to complain more about wooden acting and whatnot, but Geisha Padme and BDSM Padme were absolutely a target of complaints. Those complaints are different from complaints about Holdo though because Amidala's wardrobe helps characterizing her. I would love to hear what Holdo's hair is saying about her as a character, apart from "Disney is aware of Liberal Feminism".

I also have no idea why you bring up alien characters and a character from an animated series. Those tend to held to different visual standards, which is such a painfully obvious thing that I feel dumber for having to explain it to you.

quote:

The complaint about purple hair IS a chud thing, because Colorful Hair On Woman is something Chuds have contributed to being coded as Liberal Feminist, and therefore it's almost as important for creating a direct bridge between legitimate criticisms of her writing to their "Man-Hating Faux-Empowered Feminazi," caricature as when they call her Admiral Clinton. If that makes you uncomfortable don't bring it up because "her hair color is distracting/weird for the setting," is already a lame criticism

Okay, so nobody can ever say a bad thing about women with colorful hair again I guess. I'll let it be then, because this has turned into exactly the lovely kind of finger pointing I am tired of.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Tag yourself, I'm the soypro.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

McCloud posted:

It's like white privilege.txt. A world full of yoga soccer moms drinking tea, reciting dumb poetry and eating only vegan soy products.

It's like they are openly baiting chuds into attacking the character, which on the one hand is super funny and makes me wish Holdo was the main character of the ST, and on the other hand is unfortunate because you can't ever say something negative about the character without being put into the chud camp by people who liked the movie and feel they need to defend it against the meanies.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

I don't really buy into these reverse psychology narratives so much that it's just the same sort of lazy pandering story as all of the EU licensed writing.

You are probably right, it's just that the toxicity surrounding the discussion of TLJ is so depressing that I would love to be able to pin it on malice rather than stupidity.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

I don't think it's "performative wokeness" so much as just a fantasy people find appealing in and of itself. Schlocky SF has been doing it as long as I can remember, just pandering to different fantasies as tastes changed.

Well, so far I have only heard about it being a fantasy for chuds. Like, is there anyone who actually identifies with Holdo? I mean, Laura Dern is doing her best and people should identify with Laura Dern, but I kinda doubt anyone is actually doing that for Holdo. Be happy to be proved wrong.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

I'm the teenage atheist assurance that I hate you so much that I want you to go to hell even though I'm not religious.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

BiggestBatman posted:

The original star wars is very much underappreciated because much of what makes it good gets carried over into the also very good empire strikes back.

Star wars hints at a larger, lived in, universe much more than empire, for one thing

I'm still struggling to put into words how ANH manages to pull off making its world feel large and lived in where the sequels just mention stuff that the audience can tell will probably show up in a cartoon, spin-off, video game or comic book.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Some Goon posted:

The prequels are a low point in cinema. Every minute is agony, like when Anakin is back with Padme. The closer you watch, the worse it gets. The thought of the horrific acting and dialogue-- I can't breathe. I'm haunted by the movies George should never have given me. My heart is beating, hoping that those movies will not become a scar. They are in the very soul of the the fandom, tormenting me. What can I do?

Lighten up about Star Wars?

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.


Well, at least it's not just you posting Plinkett.

e: ah, clever.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

expert joke identifiers ITT

In my defense, this is the forum that created that Blockbuster subforum because so many goons are a bunch of weiners.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Well, she is thirsty for Poe, which should make her relatable to 95% of the audience.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

The idea that Luke became the Hero of the Republic isn't supported by the ending of RotJ at all. He mourns his father in a private ceremony and then joins his friends, but nobody knows that Luke was instrumental in killing the Emperor... before Lando would have blown him up, anyway. Maybe there is some residual fame to Luke's name from blowing up the first Deat Star, but his transition into this near-mythological hero figure is pure meta commentary. We know Luke is a savior, therefore every Star Wars character knows.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

I think its easy to skip over blowing up the first Death Star, at least for viewers... Aside from the medal ceremony Luke never appears to be treated as a galactic hero in the OT. The ST treats the loving Knights of Ren with more awe than Luke ever got in episodes 5/6.

Yeah, his friends are clearly all aflutter about Luke's new sick Jedi skills in RotJ, but in the briefing for the Endor mission nobody seems to care much about his arrival except for Leia and Han. And that's the entirety of Luke's contact with the Rebellion in the movie, he barely hangs out with them at all and interacts with no other rebels besides Leia.

As for him blowing up the Death Star, that was a glorious victory but the Rebellion got its poo poo kicked in a while after with Luke barely surviving. That tends to dull the glory a bit, even though it could build towards a myth where this war hero is just too tough to die or something. But it's still a long way away from the boner every single character, no matter the alignment, seems to have developed for Luke Skywalker in the ST.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

josh04 posted:

Solo suggests, "not well".


Cease to Hope posted:

Rogue One suggests the same.

Yeah but, the reception to those movies might have been influenced by Disney's announcement of a trillion Star Wars movies from now on until you die. It's pure conjecture on my part, but I think many people got proactively kind of sick of Star Wars when Disney made clear just how hard they were going to milk the franchise, and of course the movies not being part of the trilogy structure were going to catch the worst of that. Not that Solo doesn't suck.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

Rogue One was a confusing mess until the final act. I don't think framing it any different way would've fixed that.

e: Like I can't speak for anyone else, but my objection to Rogue One is that for most of the movie it's difficult to tell where a given thing on screen is happening, why it matters, or why I should care about anyone involved. If I stop and think about it, it does strike me as odd that a Star Wars movie is trying to be this gritty and cynical and bleak while still having a robot cracking wise, but it wasn't my chief objection while I was actually watching it.

I thought Rogue One was pretty straightforward and rather simple, so I found a lot of entertaining things to focus on, most of all the Imperial Middle Management subplot. The tone was rather bleak, but if I'm not mistaken it came out after TFA and kinda came across as a bit of an unofficial ESB, the second movie in a Star Wars trilogy, but not. A movie about a mission where everybody dies, and we know it because we have never heard of those characters. I thought the movie handled that narrative burden well enough without getting too cute about it.

Also, the cynical robot owned and was a fine mirror of fussy useless C3PO, a dull gray figure being an rear end in a top hat about everything and killing with the flick of his wrist.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Darth Maul did nothing wrong.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Should have gone with the Vuvuzela Vongs, or whatever they are called. Opening crawl telling us that there has been peace and boredom for 30 years and now BAM Force-eating Cenobites from the outest of outer space.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

SolarFire2 posted:

I thought it was real dumb that first order TIEs have a gunner seat that faces backwards, controlling weapons that fire forwards.

They're space ships, you're meant to look at screens and poo poo to fire at targets, not literally out the window.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

PeterWeller posted:

Hence the big open canopies and windows everywhere.

Well sometimes it's nice just to look outside.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

mind the walrus posted:

That's because actual Nazis were among the people driving the criticism. There's a reason over half of it was about "SJW propaganda."

That already started happening with TFA, lest we forget the Little White Cuckball thing. And chuds latched onto Battle Angel Alita because they thought they could use it against perceived SJW darling Captain Marvel. Turns out movies can still be lovely even when lovely people dislike them, or be good even though lovely people try to use them for their agenda.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

CainFortea posted:

Different strokes for different folks, I know i'm not interested in discussing why so much as making sure we're all on the same page.

Eh, people can think that a movie is bad for very different reasons. Remember how chuds were up in arms about the little white cuckball? Seeking solidarity with people just because you dislike the same movies runs the danger of chumming up with idiotic assholes, so a little more thought than "It's bad, agreed?" would be great.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

In my opinion, the one and only good thing about the sequels remains Kylo Ren. He is a dumb idiot, but that's at least something. Him throwing tantrums was something different from everyone else going through the motions in TFA. He seemed unpredictable in a way that was interesting, as opposed to the other off the rack characters. His trajectory to super space Hitler in RoS was kinda lame, then the face turn in Return of Palpatine was the stupidest poo poo. But at least the character went through some poo poo. I have no idea how to describe Finn's development. A Stormtrooper who became a became a not-Stormtrooper, fell into a 12-hour coma and then was a rebel. The end. Or Poe Poe: Rebel master pilot. The end.

Really riveting stuff.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Rose is there in in TROS?

Also lol, I couldn't quite keep the names of the last two movies apart. gently caress it, is it last skywalker or revenge of skywalker or what. Such lovely lovely names.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

All of Kylo's development in TFA and TLJ comes at the cost of the rest of the cast. Especially in TLJ.

But Rose was there in TLJ? Like, did you want the Casino Planet scenes to go on longer?

I am also not quite sure what additional time would have done for Finn, or loving Poe. Maybe we could have cut a Kylo scene to actually see how Phasma goes into the trash compactor. Or am I reading your comment wrong?

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

All of the other characters are the same people at the beginning and end of each movie. Kylo develops, Rey kinda does, everyone else is just there. It's not a matter of extending particular scenes; a movie that was fundamentally about how (for example) Finn feels about anything would just be an entirely different movie.

I completely agree, but I don't see how any of that "comes at the cost of" Kylo's development. They succeeded at showing Kylo developing, kinda, and pathetically failed at doing the same for any of the other charcters. They didn't fail because they showed Kylo's development.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

Developing a character takes time and story focus. That's in short supply because all of the sequels are overstuffed with characters, especially OT characters. Look at how many OT characters have the basic role of "Kylo has an important relationship with this character, while everyone else gawks at them."

Sure, agreed. But it's still laughable to say that Kylo took up all the space for development instead of saying that the writers and directors just have done a lovely job. Like, Han took to Rey in TFA, and they have done nothing with that. She was basically Leia's adopted daughter in TROS and it just felt hollow. That has nothing to do with Kylo's development, it's the movies being lovely at handling anyone besides him. Which I think we are basically agreeing on, but from different perspectives.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

It's an example of how they did a lovely job, and reconciles what people like about the sequels with what people do not like.

I took it to mean that the shouldn't have went with doing what they did with Kylo, my apologies.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

nine-gear crow posted:

I want it purely for the meltdowns it would produce among the dribbling shitheads who've convinced themselves that Only George Lucas Can Save Star Wars Now. I want them to get their wish and I want them to spend the rest of their time on this good earth regretting ever having asked for it.

Rise of Skywalker came close in terms of that "NOT LIKE THI-HI-HI-HISSSSS " schadenfreude, but not quite.

The best thing is that Lucas would be 100% on board with trolling those fans like that. I can see him going, "I told you they died, you should have gone with that "

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

ungulateman posted:

i mean it's violent, barely controlled, spitting sparks everywhere, and obviously not as refined and sensible as other lightsabers. it's an insanely obvious metaphor for his character

also they put it in the first trailer for the exact same reason they put darth maul revealing his double sided lightsaber in tpm's first trailer so it needed to be unique in some fashion or another

I dunno about the bolded part, op. To my untrained eye, Kylo's lightsaber works exactly like a regular one.

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Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

it visibly wavers and has a ragged edge

you can see it really well in his fight with rey at the end of TFA, contrasting with the much cleaner look of her lightsaber's arcs

Agreed that it looks different, but that doesn't seem to affect its function in any way.

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