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Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


PinheadSlim posted:

How many horrible lightsaber wounds and deaths are there in the ST? There's Snoke but I can't really remember any more.

Kylo got a pretty disfiguring wound on his face at the end of TFA, but them TLJ moved it so it wouldn't look as bad. Rian Johnson apparently thought it looked 'goofy' going all the way across his face.

Disney probably should have hired some people that wouldn't do stupid retcons of the previous movie.

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Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


dialhforhero posted:

While I agree that Finn‘s character arc is wasted, the potential from Benicio Del Toro’s DJ from TLJ is COMPLETELY wasted.

...what narrative potential is there in a character who's defining attribute is "Doesn't give a poo poo about anything going on around him"?

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Bogus Adventure posted:

I dunno. It didn't trick me, but I'm also a Star Trek fan and saw what JJ did to it. I thought he might treat his first love better, but lmao that he did worse by it.

It's great how, based purely on the movies he made, you'd assume JJ is a casual fan of Star Trek who didn't quite get the nuances right, but has nothing but contempt for Star Wars and just threw some crap together to get it out the way.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Sorry, I meant 'one would assume', not you specifically.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Milkfred E. Moore posted:

The prequels she thought were overall weird but she liked a lot of their visual designs which I think is what kept her watching.

The prequels just have great designs in general. Like how the Trade Federation has its own visual language that doesn't echo anything from the OT, yet still feels like part of the same universe. Or the fantastic detail that the Jedi star-fighters have elements of the TIE fighters in them; the Jedi are already part of the Imperial machine, they just never noticed.

The closest thing to an original design the ST comes up with is "Star Destroyers, but with a bigger gun" or "A casino, but there's aliens there."

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Black Panther took the controversial position that fictional magic Africans are good, while African-Americans are bad.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


The thing about Holdo is that there's no character there; she's just an abstract representation of 'authority'. There's a reason people always bring up her purple hair – it's because chuds are sexist assholes that's as close as she gets to having a personality trait. It's impossible to sympathize with her because there's nothing there to sympathize with – she's just an obstacle for most of the film.

And you could have done interesting things with her – emphasize how much stress she's under, that she's clinging to the rules and regulations of the military because doing otherwise would be admitting that the Republic is gone and that they've lost the war. Give her something so that while she might not be a sympathetic character, she'd at least be a character who's viewpoint we can understand. Instead, she's a cypher who inexplicably goes from martinet to martyr without ever passing through human. And it means that in the conflict with Poe, we end up siding with Poe even when he's being a jerk for no reason because at least he's a character we can relate to.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Yeah, those slave kids were totally happy with their situation until Rose came along.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


2house2fly posted:

Tran's character was specifically created for the movie. I don't think they create characters first and then decide what their role in the plot will be later. I mean maybe Disney does, but in general I assume it's the other way around

I kind of feel Rose only existed because of the decision to split Finn and Poe up - and that may well have come about due to studio pressure.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Robot Style posted:

According to Johnson, Rose was created after he found that the Finn/Poe adventure he originally conceived wouldn't have any tension between the two, and he needed a better foil for Finn. How he managed to put the poster boy Resistance hero together with the indoctrinated Stormtrooper deserter and not find a way for them to conflict with each other is beyond me, though.

Yeah, Johnson's explanation makes no sense whatsoever, which is why I think it must have been studio mandated. TLJ mangles, contradicts and walks back its own themes so much that I have to assume there was just as much studio interference as there was with every other Disney Star Wars project.

It would not surprise me at all if Disney was pushing hard to pair Finn off with a non-white woman, and Johnson, who already didn't seem to have much of an idea what to do with Finn alone, ended up throwing both characters off on a shaggy dog story.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Star Wars Galaxies was basically the last big MMO before World of Warcraft came out and ditched a lot of the tedious and unnecessary grind, and, quelle surprise, found that they could attract a hell of a lot more players by doing so.

And so SWG spent most of its existence trying to attract that same audience at the expense of the players who'd stuck by them because they didn't want a WoW experience.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


The problem with TLJ isn't the timeline, it's that just by existing, the casino plot completely undermines the chase plot.

"We can't go to another star system because the First Order is tracking us!"
"I have a solution - I'll go to another star system to hire a guy to shut down their tracking!"
"Brilliant!"

You can't build a tense siege story and also have characters blithely wander off to go elsewhere for half the movie. If they can go to Casino planet to waste time, why can't everyone go there? Why can't Finn and Rose go to the outer rim to call for help if they can leave so easily?

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Porgs were legitimately the best thing in TLJ.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Rise is clearly a corporate product that was the result of high-level meddling, and it's impossible to tell how much of it is Abrams' fault and how much of it was decisions made elsewhere. I really don't think it was Abrams' decision to have a major plot point be presented only in Fortnight, for example. And Abrams hasn't really made much of an effort to talk it up or defend it after it came out.

Last Jedi's weird decisions and baffling plot points seem to be almost entirely Johnson's choices - though it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that some of the stranger moments were the result of corporate meddling. And Johnson and his supporters have been pretty aggressively defending the film's choices, so that leads to a more combative atmosphere.

And, of course, Jedi came out first, so it got the stronger backlash; nobody was expecting Rise to pull the trilogy out of its nosedive.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Snoke is both the mastermind manipulator who orchestrated Kylo's corruption, Luke's failure, and every other major event of the last few decades, and also an empty shell who neither Kylo nor anybody else owes any loyalty to. His death is both a major moment in Kylo's development as a character, and also a non-event that changes nothing.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Their secret plan, it should be noted, was "Fly towards a planet, then get into smaller ships to land there."

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Because he's such a shallow character, Snoke's death has absolutely no impact. Is it Kylo finally getting revenge on the monster who corrupted him? Is it Kylo turning on another mentor because of his lust for power? Is it Kylo overthrowing a cruel tyrant, only to fail to break the cycle by taking his place? I have no idea what motivates him because his relationship to Snoke is barely sketched out.

And without any idea of what Snoke or the First Order is like, the potentially interesting change of Kylo seizing power doesn't mean anything; what's he going to do differently? I don't know, because I don't know what Snoke was doing in the first place!

I mean, sure, Rise dropped the ball on doing anything with that plot point, but it's as much of an empty mystery box as any of the things Last Jedi ignored and discarded.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Here's a question - why the hell do they jump to the middle of nowhere in the first place? They didn't know they were being tracked, so presumably their initial plan was just "Fly to Crait, use the abandoned bunker there as our new base."

But they don't hyperspace to Crait directly, instead they jump to the edge of the system and decide to do the rest of their travel at sublight, even though they know they barely have enough fuel to reach Crait.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


It's not like TLJ's explanation works particularly well either, though - it still doesn't explain why there's a map.

The obvious explanation for me would be that he's guarding something - granted, that'd still leave the question of why he didn't bother filling anyone in on what he was doing, but make it some dark side weapon or somesuch nonsense, something he can't risk anyone even knowing about, and it sort of works.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


nine-gear crow posted:

Hux kills himself with Mace Windu's lightsaber because it turns out he was actually a Jedi weeb this whole time. he lost the star wars.

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Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

the maximally cynical read on this is that in putting the Jedi to bed and making it so that ~anyone can be a wizard Force-user~, Disney is looking forward to eventually doing Marvel-style superhero movies, but in Star Wars

The Last Jedi espoused the radically egalitarian philosophy that anybody born with Force powers can use the Force. This was a radically diversion from previous films, where Jedi had to come from a specific noble bloodline. Except for Obi-Wan. Or Yoda. Or Qui-Gon. Or Palpatine. Or-

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