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Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Back to TFA, doesn't Rey call the Falcon a piece of junk only to then SQUEE about how it's THE Millennium Falcon?

I could be remembering it wrong. I only saw TFA once, and that was it for me and the sequel trilogy.

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Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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nine-gear crow posted:

Yes, Rey turns into a Star Wars Fan when Han Solo shows up, who’s suddenly very knowledgeable about the events of the Star Wars Film Franchise despite living along on a backwater desert world her whole life.

Just lmao

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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I honestly have no idea what Disney & Co. were planning with the Sequel Trilogy outside of capitalize on OT ties, and produce a movie based on the IP. After seeing TFA, I NOPE'D out of the Sequel Trilogy. I was quite impressed that Disney managed to kill my interest in Star Wars, but my wallet is incredibly grateful.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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CelticPredator posted:

They had a plan but that fucker bob igar rusher the whole thing and caused a ripple effect that couldn’t be stopped.

Did they, though? It seems like they had an idea of what they wanted their main characters to look like, but nothing about who they should be, what they should fight for, and how they fit in the story. Having two directors take big meaty shits on their counterparts' films didn't help, either.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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I could just be looking at it in an overly cynical sort of way. I just remember getting into the movie theater and constantly wondering what the gently caress I was watching. It just felt like set pieces were being fetishized (the Millennium Falcon, Vader's burned mask, the Rebel Pilot helmet, Anakin's lightsaber), and that their inclusion was far more important than telling a story about the characters and the galaxy. Rey scavenging in the downed Star Destroyer is a pretty good analogy for how I felt about that movie. It was stripping the OT for parts to sell to the audience.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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TFA is a really bad movie

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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I dunno. It didn't trick me, but I'm also a Star Trek fan and saw what JJ did to it. I thought he might treat his first love better, but lmao that he did worse by it.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Angry Salami posted:

It's great how, based purely on the movies he made, you'd assume JJ is a casual fan of Star Trek who didn't quite get the nuances right, but has nothing but contempt for Star Wars and just threw some crap together to get it out the way.

Uh, i dont know what post you think you read, but that's not what i wrote at all. He's been pretty open about how huge a fan he is of Star Wars. He was such a big fan that he put a bunch of Star Wars easter eggs in Star Trek, like Pike saying " Punch it" to tell Sulu to go to warp speed, and the way Kirk''s escape pod spirals down to Delta Vega.

So. Lmao.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Angry Salami posted:

Sorry, I meant 'one would assume', not you specifically.

I see, my bad

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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I still like Cloverfield. Less for the overall story, but more for Lizzy Caplan being awesome and the ridiculousness of Jessica Lucas walking barefoot through a ruined NYC.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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That makes a lot of sense.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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nine-gear crow posted:

It got six seasons and it ended on its own terms even after ABC begged them to keep it going for another like three years. Lost went out on basically at the top of the world.

It was the Twin Peaks or Game of Thrones of its era. Everyone talked about it. It was insufferable. Then that ending happened.

l m a o
m
a
o

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Ghost Leviathan posted:

Honestly I'm surprised all the 'mystery box' criticisms turned out to be exactly right.

Heroes was more turbofucked by the writer's strike iirc, but then even after they had no excuse was still a dumpster fire.

Heroes got really bad really fast. The first season was fun, but it spiraled way out of control with the dumb circus villains.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Tulip posted:

If Heroes had simply flat ended at the end of S1 it would have been fine, or if later seasons had focused on "normal people getting super powers and having trouble with it" with a new cast each season that also would have been fun. The characters weren't actually any good but if you didn't spend too long with them that's not that big of a deal.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Tulip posted:

Finn is the DnD character played by a guy who shows up only randomly and barely knows the rules and just wants to roll some dice without any complication, and when he's not around the other players just have him autopilot through encounters so that he's not a meaningfully different character when the player shows back up.

This is painfully accurate

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Wonder Woman rules. It has a weak character villain, but a strong thematic villain: war. It's like Iron Man in that way. Obie may not be the strongest villain, but the thematic villain is the arms industry. (Too bad Marvel lost sight of that, but Disney's gonna Disney).

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Never forget that Amylin Holdo's homeworld is this:

quote:

Gatalenta

Gatalenta was a warm, uncommonly tranquil planet located in the Core Worlds famed for its tea, lengthy, erudite poetry and meditative retreats.[2]

History

A member of the New Republic, Gatalenta was represented in the Galactic Senate for over twenty years by Senator Tai-Lin Garr. New Republic pilot Joph Seastriker also came from Gatalenta,[2] as did Resistance Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo.[4] Due to the country's strong Jedi tradition, Gatalenta became one of Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker's first destinations when he began studying the history of the Jedi Order.[2]

Society and culture

"On Gatalenta we try to lead the life of the mind, and in our culture intentions can have great influence; we discuss them, judge by them."
―Amilyn Holdo[src]

Natives of Gatalenta were renowned for their calmness and serenity, and rose each day to thank the planet's multiple suns for rising.[2]

They widely practiced skyfaring, a form of calisthenics exercise involving the use of scarves to climb wooden scaffolding and suspend themselves in midair, and had a purpose-built skyfaring room within the Gatalentan senatorial complex on Coruscant. Advanced practioners of skyfaring were able to meditate in place, "unmoored to the ground," and so enhance their spiritual well-being and that of those around them. Love and compassion were taught and practiced fondly by the people of Gatalenta, and crying openly was considered a virtue and proof of a caring heart.[3]

Gatelenta was ruled by the Council of Mothers. Slavery was illegal on the planet, and slaves were not allowed to be brought to the planet. If a slave was brought there, and their master was caught, the slave was set free. The Gatalentan people were known for living austerely, wearing only pale grey or white clothing, the only colorful parts of their attire being traditional scarlet cloaks.[3] In the years before the Galactic Civil War, Gatalenta had a strong Jedi tradition, and the old Jedi legends remained alive on Gatalenta in spite of the Great Jedi Purge.

Gatalentan tea was the planet's most popular export along with a healthy meat-substitute known as soypro which could even be found in the Outer Rim Territories.[5] Leia Organa was particularly fond of this tea.[2]

I get what the writers were trying, but geez. It's like GOOP the Planet.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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I'm the lengthy, erudite poetry

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Love and compassion are practiced fondly on Gatalenta. Following orders without question, even when your friends and colleagues appear to be needlessly dying, is also considered a virtue.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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It doesn't help that the screen crawl in TFA literally tells you "HEY, THIS GUY POE DAMERON IS SUPER COOL!!! YOU SHOULD LIKE HIM!!!"

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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"Why would you have Anakin Skywalker help right Ben Solo when you can just have HAN FREAKIN' SOLO do it???"
-JJ Abrams

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Barudak posted:

The film is a series of missed opportunities that are the inverse difficulty of the death star run

The entire sequel trilogy is. Random picture to make amends for my griping about the sequel trilogy.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Cease to Hope posted:

this is the griping thread, friend

True. I stand by that picture, though. I have 100% Beef with the Sequel Trilogy because it is a thing that exists. I am, however, eternally grateful at how much money it has saved me by killing my interest in Disney Star Wars stuff.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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That's not what Wide-lo Ren looks like at all. He doesn't have a v-shape. It should have a u-shape.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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It's because the Sequel Trilogy had the build up of the WWF's mystery egg gimmick, and landed with the same grace and effect as gimmick's reveal.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Cease to Hope posted:

Surely Shockmaster is the better comparison.

Did Shockmaster have a buildup? I thought it was just a terrible reveal.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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The Prequels rule because they are willing to show you the universe rather than tell you about it. You see strange, new worlds that aren't just cynical copies of past settings. Naboo, Coruscant, Kamino, Geonosis, Utapau, Felucia, Kashyyyk, Mustafar are all beautiful and unique. The aliens you encounter are different and recognizable. They tell a complete story about how the Republic fails when people trust a few select people to tell them what to do rather than participate as a group in the political process. People shouldn't expect a solitary "strong leader" to make decisions for them, even when that option seems. People shouldn't rely on a strange cult of mystical ascetics to protect them. People need to participate in the system and work together. People need to care. Those are the themes that get brought into the Original Trilogy, and allow for that final triumph over evil in Episode VI. The good guys win because everyone is working together. It sounds like a sappy moral for kids, but that's what attracted me to the movies in the first place.

I stopped watching the Sequel Trilogy after TFA because I honestly had no idea what the story was about, or where it fit into that narrative. Seeing the victory in ROTJ rolled back to reestablish a crapsack galaxy without an explanation why was frustrating, and there is better media for me to spend my time on. Like rewatching Cats 2019.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Sanguinia posted:

... how is any of this in the Prequels? There are no on-the-ground perspectives, no insight into the common people's thoughts on the war, Palpatine or the Jedi, nothing in the narrative that serves as a call to action or a condemnation of apathy. Our point of view characters are entirely driven by their personal convictions and the story never tries to relate those personal motives to the systemic structure of the galaxy or its politics. The Original Trilogy consistently painted the Old Republic as a golden age and the Rebels as fighting to reclaim it from darkness, and while the Prequels do show us a disconnect between that romanticism and what reality was, they never address or engages that disconnect in any way.

Anakin was a slave in a society that had purported to abolish slavery because of corruption and anemia, and was raised up into power and prosperity because of his abilities. Can we infer that this history informs his being enamored with authoritarianism and might-makes-right ideology, as well as the possessive nature of his concept of love which drives him toward evil after the loss of his mother and the threated loss of his wife? Yes! Does the movie actually do anything with that idea? No!

Could we read that Padme's neglect of her once-proactive and progressive political career in Revenge in favor of wrapping herself up in her relationship and her pregnancy as a sign of the Republic's institutional failures and its elites inherent complicity in the rise of fascism? Sure. Could we read Obi-Wan and Yoda's choice to go into exile as a tacit acknowledgment of the Jedi's inability to rise to the challenges of evil and a passing of the torch to the common people of the galaxy as the ones who can liberate themselves? We could. Does the movie actually do anything to make that implication text? Of course it doesn't.

I don't know if you're reading later material like Clone Wars and various novels back into the Prequels post-facto or what, but you're giving those films credit they don't deserve for stories they never told. The prequels have two things going for them: solid world/lore building which allowed more competent storytellers to do effective things with their setting and character over the course of two following decades of work trying to salvage them, and a semi-competent two-movie character study/arc (I say two because Phantom Menace is the most pointless film ever made and contributes nothing to the other two) for two of its characters, Anakin and Obi-wan. Maybe 2.5 if you want to credit them for intermitten good scenes for Padme and Palpatine.

I dunno, I always got this out of the movies:

Palpatine becomes chancellor, convinces the senate to grant him emergency powers, and then builds enough of a cult of personality around himself that he is able to end the republic and declare himself Emperor. Nobody chooses to oppose him, despite him effectively committing treason against the Republic. Instead, the politicians just sit and watch. Maybe it is because he's an evil space wizard with ultimate power, but this is something we've seen happen throughout our own history.

The Republic, rather than have a defense force with popular oversight, also relies on the Jedi---reluctant guardians who are ill-equipped to handle war---to fight their battles for them. Valorum sends Jinn and Kenobi to investigate Naboo rather than take more direct action to protect its constituents. They also may or may not have ordered a clone army to fight the Republic's battles for them. The fight at Geonosis in Attack of the Clones is cool to watch, but you see it completely decimate the Jedi. They are not an army. They are not a fighting force. They are just people with powers.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the answer to this quesiton? With the exception of the two Republic Judicial Forces officers who are killed by the Trade Federation, how many other members of the Republic fight or die trying to protect it? There are the Naboo pilots and Padme's bodyguard, but anyone else?

Maybe I'm inventing headcanon or looking at them through rose-colored glasses, but that is the message I see in it.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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josh04 posted:

Hell yeah.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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McCloud posted:

I think it really says something that wearing a mask to protect yourself from a pandemic, on doctors advice, is now something controversial in the US.Culture wars has hosed that country up beyond fixing

Honestly, I think the pandemic is trying to fix that. People ignoring public health recommendations are getting the CNV, they got the 'roni big time!

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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I'll try spinning! That's a good trick!

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Sanguinia posted:

THIS IS MY BANKAI, ICHIGO KUROSAKI!



IT'S OVER 9000!!!!

Also, lol at this

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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I hadn't seen Ep IX Palps, but



Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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nine-gear crow posted:

He seriously looks like some weird fan film's version of what they think Palpatine should look like after having seen the end of Revenge of the Sith maybe once. Also the hilariously understated part about that whole final Palpatine fight was that he creates a whole new wardrobe for himself out of the the Force. He literally uses a part of his granddaughter (and great-grandson, fyi)'s life force to upgrade his wardrobe to look more presentable to an audience.

That is just peak rear end in a top hat Palpatine and I lowkey totally love it

OctoberCountry posted:

The force dyad was so strong that harnessing its power allowed Sheev to conjure up a stylish new robe for himself

I see that outfit and expression, and all I can see is Bill Corbett as the Observer.





I can't explain it, but it just feels like Sheev's got Big Brain Energy going on.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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The triumph in ROTJ hinges on cooperation. All of the heroes do something to contribute. Han, Leia, Chewie, 3PO and R2 need to take out that shield generator, or else Lando and Wedge can't blow up the Death Star. Luke confronts Vader and the Emperor, preventing them from stopping the Rebels (like Vader getting in a fighter and wrecking the Rebel fleet). It's my favorite Star Wars ending because everyone is critical for the final victory.

What immediately turned me off about the Sequel Trilogy is that JJ & Disney have no interest in dealing with that victory. Instead, it goes right back to the crapsack galaxy and an evil Empire that, despite being a "fringe extremist group," dwarfs everyone else in arms, manpower, and money. It basically takes a poo poo all over ROTJ, which is my favorite of the OT movies. It loving sucks, it's not what I waited years to see, and I'm not going to waste my time watching it or "learning to love" it.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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We could make this the Disney Star Wars Superfund Site, a place where we can discuss a toxic mess

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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I mean, Batuu... What the gently caress were they thinking? Imagine if Universal Studios made a Harry Potter world around Frogslime, the fallback school of wizardry for those who don't get into Hogwarts.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Solo is a mess with a few cromulent sci-fi/action scenes. It answers every question the audience might have had about the characters' origins in the worst possible way, ranging from the Imperial recruiting officer giving Han a last name to Lando having a room dedicated to capes. It's literally one of those dumb "The Art/Story Behind Star Wars" books in movie format, and it suffers for it. Also, Darth Maul out of loving nowhere is laughable as hell.

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Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

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Ghost Leviathan posted:

That actually sounds a lot of fun, idiot teenagers with magic.

Instead of drinking Butterbeer and playing quidditch, you're pounding abracadabsinthe shots and eating mage-ajuana brownies.

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