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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Another desert planet really was a dumb idea. Make it an ice planet, or even just a salt flats planet, the whole uninhabitable wasteland thing...okay, maybe not the best example since there's Hoth and the other salt flats planet but still.

Even video games generally have the same level cliche look different in different games

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Was actually an interesting idea that physical healing, maintaining and creating life are specifically a Dark Side power.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Funny probably EU thing is that the TIE fighters are actually descended from the Jedi starfighters you see in the prequels; they're fast but fragile as hell and underequipped because they're optimised for being piloted by precognitive. Also, Darth Vader is considered the most terrifyingly effective pilot in history.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




cams posted:

i dunno most redditmen i've seen were pretty pleased with tros because it dumpstered the last jedi and tied even MORE stuff to the original trilogy

palpatine poo poo so dumb

lol that they made the movie incredibly stupid to please the dumbest possible fans

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




It's really hard to come up with a better 2019 punchline than the finale to the sequel trilogy requiring you to have played Fortnite to understand the plot.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




nine-gear crow posted:

Disney at the start of 2019: we're gonna make Fortnite be a plot point in our franchise ending blockbuster movie.

Disney at the end of 2019: we're gonna make a plot point to our franchise ending blockbuster movie be in Fortnite.

It was more a punchline than a plot point in Endgame at least

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




nine-gear crow posted:

I had to stifle a laugh when I saw the closeup of the literal space duct tape that was holding it together. That was the exact moment I knew the movie was going to be 90 minutes of erasing The Last Jedi at the expense of actually telling its own story.

I'm reminded of Heroes and how it was described as 'at war with its own continuity' at the expense of basically anything else

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Shoulda been Unicron

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Emrikol posted:

I wanna see the Jedi with the foresight to carry a backup saber.

Darth Maul was technically this, since his double-ender was literally just two lightsabers stuck together that could both function independently. (and it pays off given one of them gets destroyed in the fight with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan)

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Don Dongington posted:

Thing is, Jedi in the old republic generally didn't have to account for having to fight other people with lightsabers. The Sith were supposedly in hiding for 1000 years until Maul showed up.

I'm sure if Dark Jedi were more of a common thing, this would be a more common occurrence, but the vast majority of Jedi would never face off against another force user outside of sparring. So the risk of damage to one's weapon was significantly lower.

Which is supposedly why Windu and Kenobi were tasked with taking on Palps and Dooku respectively; they were somewhat unique in their focus and training, that being fighting other Saber users. In Kenobi's case it was probably due to being the first Jedi to face a Sith warrior and live in a millenia, and Windu basically invented some crazy Light Saber form that somewhat toed the line towards the dark side, or was one of the only jedi to ever master it. Can't remember which.

Depends on how things go, some EU stuff has rogue Jedi definitely be a thing (Count Dooku was one before he went full Sith Lord), with one of Qui Gon's apprentices going rogue, enough that they practice lightsaber combat to keep sharp. I think what took them by surprise is that the Sith as an organised force were still out there, and they ran into a full blown Sith warrior with his own refined techniques and skill to match a Jedi Master that they have absolutely no record of. There's some suggestion that the Jedi are aware the history of the Sith is that as an organisation they tend to completely implode because the Dark Side encourages an attitude that makes Decepticons look loyal and stable, so they establish the Rule of Two so that the master and apprentice have incentive to work together until they're sure the apprentice has learned everything they can before disposing of the master. 'Cannibalistic leapfrog' I think the novelisation likens it to. And Yoda senses this one way or another, though they're not sure whether Maul was the master or the apprentice.

And it was a bit of both; Windu's fighting style is said to dip into the Dark Side and he's the only one to ever master it without falling to the dark.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Flavius Aetass posted:

do they loving eat lightning 3x a day or

And poo poo thunder

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Thing is it's extra dumb given the prequels for all their issues specifically establish the importance of logistics; AotC explicitly shows both armies being built from the ground up, the cloning facilities and the droid factories, and the importance to the plot of an ex-Jedi turned literal royalty who funded the clone army with his vast personal wealth. Neither of the armies comes out of nowhere, which is a little ironic given that is absolutely the intended feel in-universe; the Republic suddenly has a fully functional army of expendable clones, so why wouldn't they immediately use it against the violent separatists killing their agents with a massive army of droids?

Even the First Order is said to have conquered and looted unexplored regions of the galaxy to rebuild their forces.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




TheBystander posted:

TROS should have just made the final order an undead army. The massive fleet of star destroyers are clearly the debris of the empire's old armada, covered in burns and blasts, held together only by palpatine's will. The first order cronies look into the window of a ghost ship to see it manned by stormtroopers in armor that is burnt or full of holes, and it quickly becomes apparent that there's nothing inside the armor. Palpatine himself is just the sith equivalent of a force ghost, only existing because of the hatred and fear of his legacy that remains in the universe. When Palpatine gets defeated, the ghost ships crumble into nothing, leaving the first order suddenly on far more even ground with the Resistance.

Anyway, that's my fanfic, please like and comment.

Literally a way better ending than anything else could have been.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The red speeder Anakin steals is a Star Wars version of the car from American Graffiti

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I haven't seen TROS, never will if possible, and still can't really believe they actually made Reylo canon.

Somehow worse relationship writing than Lucas himself.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




3PO's red arm is actually a Metal Gear reference, Venom Snake in MGSV can get a gold arm to match

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




loving lol that disney is having to clarify major plot points in tweets

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Yes

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Sequeldome: Come back George, all is forgiven

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




From what I hear about the issues with Picard, I get the feeling the whole extra confusing storytelling style of over-explaining the blatantly obvious and under-explaining everything that puts it in context is a result of suits who think viewers are idiots who will be confused if characters talk about major events that happened previously, but need what's happening in front of their eyes explained so they don't get confused. IE, suits that are idiots.

That and the theory that Frozen 2 has characters over-explain everything they do because people watched test screenings and complained the plot made no sense, and decided they needed more explanation rather than realising the problem is that the things the characters choose to do make no sense.

Actually it reminds me of that whole legendary 'put her hair in a ponytail but didn't' thread where the OP's response to people's confusion at their near-incomprehensible writing style is to repeat themselves and over-explain random details rather than actually state their core premise and the context for it.

I'm starting to wonder if there's a common theme in that this is what happens when the producers are all senile.

Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 6, 2020

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Rey being dumped on Jakku also seems thematically fitting given the planet's whole thing is being almost featureless but for the relics of the last big war that people scavenge for scraps.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Honestly, I think this trilogy would have been massively better received if they'd had the same director for all three movies. They leaned WAY too hard on TLJ being 'the The Empire Strikes Back of the trilogy', to the point where it became absurd.

Actually, probably a theme is trying to ape the original trilogy and massively overdoing it in each case.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Someone was absolutely right when they said the sequels are like once telling someone you like blueberry pie, and then waking up tied to a chair and they force-feed you blueberry pie until you vomit.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




poo poo, didn't think about it before but that works.

Mind you, could just be the sequels are a dearth of originality and all those are pretty basic wish fulfilment/hero's quest tropes. Not helping that the Wizard of Oz is so influential.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




dialhforhero posted:

I just got to this thread and wanted to say that this is basically the plot of Ghostbusters II only with slime and happy thoughts.

Any movie would be improved by animating a giant statue of liberty and stepping on a cop car

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




What Star Wars needs is more giant robot fights.

Though I'm still living in hope that the next James Bond will finally end with a Metal Gear.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Star Wars Transformers made canon

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Mat Cauthon posted:

They released a bunch more of those Galaxy of Adventures shorts and you'd be hard pressed to understand that Finn was the co-lead of TFA, let alone a main character, from any of them.

Finn was my favourite character in TFA, he's actually got an interesting concept and role, a PTSD-ridden stormtrooper who defects and has to learn how to function outside the evil empire, and even gets his own boss fight that's far more memorable than anything they do with shiny stormtrooper lady. And of course they have no goddamn idea what to do with him after. I thought the were going to be building up to him becoming a Jedi, but welp.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




TLJ is like a movie made by someone who thinks they're a filmmaking genius because they've seen ALL the Star Wars movies.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Guy A. Person posted:

I donít see how this applies any less to the JJ films

Why wouldn't it?

Hence 'seems like', since kind of the problem is that the movies seem keen to only use or subvert devices and elements with Star Wars precedent, and acts as if doing something a Star Wars movie hasn't previously done is a shocking unprecedented swerve that really makes the audience think. Every sign of a franchise that's high on its own farts and sense of self-importance with also absolutely terrified of making its audience confused and angry by doing something different- a grating mix of self-importance and a crippling lack of confidence.

Rogue One works better specifically because it actually homages the stuff that the original Star Wars did; war movies, westerns and wuxia, and by having minimal appearances by the famous Star Wars characters it actually gives them some impact. (Darth Vader making a dad joke and then being a horror movie monster) And even then, it mostly gets by on the final act kicking rear end, the rest of the movie is a mess.

FunkyAl posted:

And yet, he's no Michelle MacLaren.


FWIW I actually cannot think of any modern director who fits the weird commercial auteur status Lucas and company had in the day. Rian is probably both the closest and the best choice despite his understandable inability to mine a good film out of a desperate corporate mandate.

Lord and Miller?

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Some Goon posted:

George just wanted to make films. Like, he was smart about it, but it seems more than anything he is/was just a film nerd.

Walt...wanted to take over the world?

And he would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling kids and your dog

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




FunkyAl posted:

Walt probably lucked into everything too, despite the fact he successfully took over California.

Dude for all intents and purposes was basically a supervillain.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




They went off and had a baby and that baby's name was Harry Potter.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




lol that star wars has prequels it's terrified to acknowledge and now sequels it's probably not going to be able to acknowledge

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




dialhforhero posted:

At this point I am pretty sure the purpose of the sequel trilogy was to gaslight us all into thinking the prequels were actually good.

The prequels are certainly more fun to talk about if nothing else.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Bogus Adventure posted:

I dunno. It didn't trick me, but I'm also a Star Trek fan and saw what JJ did to it. I thought he might treat his first love better, but lmao that he did worse by it.

Unfortunately, there's a certain kind of creative direction that's worse the more the director is invested in it, because they can't see the flaws and pitfalls and/or consider them to be good.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Honestly I'm surprised all the 'mystery box' criticisms turned out to be exactly right.

Heroes was more turbofucked by the writer's strike iirc, but then even after they had no excuse was still a dumpster fire.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




ungulateman posted:

Nah, that's not their style. They're much more inclined to make big showy statements to distract from the gaping holes, like how endgame had every single female character all appear in one scene because all but one of them is not actually relevant to the plot at all, and they'd rather have the conversation be about misogynists getting mad at that scene than about how irrelevant all the women are for the rest of the movie(s)

From what I gather about 90% of women found that scene cringey as hell.


OctoberCountry posted:

Johnson had some interesting ideas, but ultimately seemed too preoccupied with constantly pulling the rug out from under the audience to deliver anything especially coherent or satisfying. It also really hurts that all that subversion ultimately amounts to an ending that says "Your life sucks, but don't worry you still have your Star Wars toys."

Yeah, there's like an almost teenage attitude where he's seemingly just discovered the whole concept of 'subverting expectations' and thinks it's the most cool and clever poo poo ever and they're going to keep doing it until he gets bored.

The whole idea of picking fights with your audience rather than accept criticism, has it ever worked? Mass Effect 3 comes to mind, and that pretty much annihilated the goodwill for what could have been a legendary series.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Luke shoulda been even more like Space Zizek.

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




TLJ tries to get away with the Rogue One thing where an action packed finale makes up for the rest of the movie being a disjointed mess, but it really doesn't manage.

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