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Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



cuntman.net posted:

the dead speak!

"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent this story less lovely" - Quigon Jinn

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Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



The implication that she learned all these advanced techniques for "healing Kyber crystals" and poo poo, and then just hastily duct-taped and welded the Anakin saber back together instead of forging her own is -- if anything -- way more insulting to people's intelligence

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003




Christ imagine how backed up a Jedi gets. You can probably block a lightsaber slice with those blue stones

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Yeah TFA got a lot of good will for being the first and having a pretty charismatic cast and seemingly setting up some interesting dynamics moving forward. It's not amazing by any means but was solid enough as an "okay I am looking forward to seeing these guys all have adventures together and see where a few of these plot points are going".

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Edgar Allen Ho posted:

He just wanders around the background of Jakku. Heís a cantina alien except the movie isnít as memorable and alien prosthetics are less impressive on their own than they were in 1977.

He's not on Jakku is he? I thought he was at Maz's place. I thought he was one of the guys FN tried to escape with.

That was such a weird set piece, it's where they put all the interesting looking aliens but they just stuff them all in there and don't do anything interesting with them. By contrast the Mos Eisley cantina is over pretty quick but you have two action beats (Obi Wan cutting off that dude's arm, Han shooting Greedo), and some memorable dialogue.

Phasma was also weird because she was fairly prominent in the first one then shows up just to die in the second one in a really pointless way, and then FN's arc is basically over since they refuse to follow through on his attraction to Rey for some reason.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Btw the knights of Ren all survived and theyíre all friends again so donít worry

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



It could've actually been a decent plot to have the failing clone be the specific reason why Palpatine needed to seek out his progeny that he previously didn't give a poo poo about. Like his DNA had become unviable through weird experimentation or something and all the clones came out badly deformed and aged to dust within months or something.

But yeah that's just flat out not what's in the movie, you don't fuckin' clone someone as a crumbling old man puppet on purpose, and cloning has been established not to work like that in Star Wars. It makes an already insanely dumb plot even dumber to "fix" one aspect (Sheev being thrown into the core of a space station that was vaporized 5 minutes later) that was the least stupid part.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



I will be the first to admit I was talking right out of my rear end when i said he got thrown into the core but I also didn't expect that to be the takeaway

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Lmfao this literally gets stupider by the second

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Squizzle posted:

sheevs clone, sheeev

Speaking of Sheev Palpatine loving are you familiar with the "Bigger Sheev" fan theory? You can guess what it is about

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Sheev has kids all over the drat galaxy

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



nine-gear crow posted:

It seriously looks like he's a weird CGI recreation of what people think Palpatine is supposed to look like,

Yea it looked like a loving Palpatine snap chat filter and I was waiting for it to gently caress up and briefly reveal the real actor when he moved his head too fast or whatever

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Squizzle posted:

galpatine

my Gal-Pal-Tina

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



nine-gear crow posted:

Yes. He does exactly one thing in each of the three movies.

In TFA he shows them where Luke is. In TLJ he shows Luke Leia's oldass hologram. And in ROS he restores C-3PO's memory.

You could easily replace him with a literal garbage can with a walkman and a USB drive bolted to it and it would serve roughly the same purpose.

It's hilarious that they made R2 a literal machine for returning the Star Wars status quo, holy poo poo

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Ghost Leviathan posted:

TLJ is like a movie made by someone who thinks they're a filmmaking genius because they've seen ALL the Star Wars movies.

I donít see how this applies any less to the JJ films

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



ďHan Solo? The terrorist war criminal?Ē

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Yea Iím too jaded by how it all played out to really argue what could have been done better, but at the very least having Kylo Ren do what Vader hinted at doing and killing his boss to take over was the best decision in the ST by a lot. Both thematically appropriate while also setting up a new and interesting dynamic for the finale, but it was totally squandered by JJ.

To a lesser extent clearing Luke from the board for the finale to force the new generation to forge their own path was probably also ultimately a smart move.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Mat Cauthon posted:

I don't know how anyone can disagree with this. It was the logical evolution of the character and Hamill played it extremely well, regardless of his personal feelings. TLJ wasn't perfect but it got this right if nothing else.

I mean, even TLJ was kind of between a rock and a hard place because TFA set it up as "Luke has fled the galaxy in cowardice because his pupil turned into space hitler 2.0 and his best friend robot is in a coma out of despair" or whatever. I don't know a lot of ways to resolve that set up that wouldn't have Luke coming off at least somewhat bad given that he abandoned everyone, laying that at the feet of Johnson seems unfair at the very least. But I think Luke being played like a cynical bastard was great work by Hamill and he got his cool moment before dying.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Sanguinia posted:

The misery that Last Jedi brings to hateful dickheads by existing and being a giant success gives me such joy.

Seriously this alone should be reason enough for any rational person to love the movie

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Ghost Leviathan posted:

I find it funny that the only people who seem to like the movie are apparently outright admitting it's purely out of spite

Weird! Who did this?

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Some Goon posted:

Also, unrelated, but Teagone, is it pronounced tea-gone or tea-gon-ee (like Antigone)? This keeps bugging me.

Teeg one

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



cuntman.net posted:

i can understand not liking the prequels but actually thinking the sequels are better is a completely bizarre concept

People have legit put so much effort into making the prequels the worst abominations in cinema history that the idea that anything could be worse does not compute. How can something that destroyed your entire childhood not be worse than some cynical empty corporate cash-in from when you are already a hollowed out middle-aged consumer.

Like, the prequels at least form a narrative arc across 3 movies which the sequels botched hilariously. The prequels IMO were always just, at worst, another set of mediocre blockbusters in a sea of them. Compared to other existing Star Wars they looked like trash, but it could always get worse (and holy smokes did it get worse lol)

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Cease to Hope posted:

TLJ's plot emerges from, "So where the gently caress is Luke?" though. It's opening JJ's mystery box.

Yeah this is the problem: TFA is all about how the most important thing in the galaxy is finding Luke and then ends on the first ever Star Wars cliffhanger with Rey arriving on Luke's little planet with Finn in a coma or whatever.

Every other star war including TLJ ends with some kind of resolution where you could have things begin in media res a year later or whatever, instead of literally requiring you to start right at the moment the previous movie ends. Imagine if TLJ actually tried to gloss over Luke's importance, there'd be even another level of bitching than what we got.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



I played through the first Phoenix Wright but it was annoying to me that you would drop some bombshell logic and the person would just be able to stumble around and figure out another lie while on the stand which you then needed to disprove.

Also in order to prove a defendant innocent you needed to prove another person present in the courthouse guilty. Like imagine if the guilty person just left town.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



TLJ is good, I donít know what that nonsense above is tho

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Some Goon posted:

That's exactly what you said, it's barely even a paraphrase.

I know this is the internet and nuance is long since dead and relegated to whispered rumors, but what they said was "Boyega didn't like TLJ as much for [these admittedly weird speculative reasons]"

Boyega's issues with Disney are a lot broader and deeper than just "not liking TLJ as much"

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Ghost Leviathan posted:

So what's the answer? Cede ground to the Nazis? Pretend to like things to spite them, proving them correct?

Just be firm in your convictions and post.

Also realize a ton of people going "so if I dislike this movie I'm a nazi!?" are either nazis themselves or at the very least just whiney idiots who want to muddy the waters anytime someone challenges their views. Actually, the same goes for people saying you're a nazi for liking/disliking certain movies.

The same poo poo happened in the Ghostbusters thread around the time GB '16 came aout where the ratio of people saying "so I'm a nazi if I don't like this movie?!?" and people actually claiming anyone who didn't like the movie was a nazi was 10:0 (as in, there were literally zero people ever making the latter claim in the thread, despite how much it came up as a defense)

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Yea def not defending TFA or Rey as a perfect angel or whatever. I do think at that point in the story tho Rey mostly views herself in contrast to other scavengers who she violently lashes out at in disgust, tho I think self loathing is a big part of it.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Cease to Hope posted:

oh this is dumb CD "i like this movie therefore it's leftist" claptrap, carry on then

Cease to Hope posted:

what are you blathering about

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



I mean the other thing about the MCU is that it started out with modest successes until every one with RDJ started consistently cracking a billion and even now some of the non-core films donít get near that level without much comment.

So itís super weird to compare the success of Marvel to DC when Marvelís early movies were making 300-400 million and you still have stuff like Ant-Man and Doctor Strange that do around 500-600 million and most DC movies have done at least as much as those latter two, except for Shazam! and BoP being the outliers there.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Ghost Leviathan posted:

Actually getting a cinematic universe off the ground requires patience, consistency and being willing to actually learn from both successes and failures, all things that are near anathema to the modern business way of thinking.

Yea and WB was definitely not equipped for that, but the thing that always fascinated me is how fans bought into that thinking, which is why itís still a meme that DC movies were all failures which people started saying as of their second and third movies (in the shared universe)

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Ghost Leviathan posted:

Like everything else, TLJ Luke is trying to be provocative and surprising without any actual idea of what the wider context is supposed to be.

The issue with TLJ Luke is that he had to be written after and as a consequence of TFA Luke, who we already knew 1. had his star pupil and nephew turn to the dark side 2. had all his other pupils killed 3. went into hiding without telling his family. There's a very obvious answer to "why would this guy go into hiding and let the galaxy fall into darkness" which is "because he hosed up really bad and knows it".

There's potentially other explanations but a lot of them require overlooking plot points in TFA. If he was kidnapped/lured into a trap why would R2 know about his location and keep it a secret for so long (and why wouldn't he just force message Leia for a ride home). If he went to find some ancient Jedi texts to learn sick new moves, why did he not leave any kind of message for his family and, again, why did R2 hide this for so long. There's also always the "he blamed himself for Ben's fall even tho it wasn't really his fault" but this is likewise an incredibly selfish and short-sighted to abandon everyone for so long until some girl he didn't know came and gave him a pep talk.

Basically I'm unconvinced you can take the ending of TFA and turn that character who was running from his problems into a wise bad rear end.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Angry Salami posted:

It's not like TLJ's explanation works particularly well either, though - it still doesn't explain why there's a map.

Yeah I definitely feel that, but also that just puts even more of the blame on TFA, since the whole contrivance of "Luke fled but there's a secret map to him that R2 is protecting"...doesn't make a lot of sense in any scenario.

quote:

The obvious explanation for me would be that he's guarding something - granted, that'd still leave the question of why he didn't bother filling anyone in on what he was doing, but make it some dark side weapon or somesuch nonsense, something he can't risk anyone even knowing about, and it sort of works.

I feel like with that one his goal should be "go anywhere where that thing isn't" since apparently everyone in the galaxy doesn't know about that thing is but is looking for him. So he'd be better off going to the opposite end of the galaxy and leading the bad guys on a wild goose-chase, letting whatever dark weapon fade into obscurity.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003




I feel like this is functionally really close to what we got and what I described in my "Luke blames himself" scenario, with some extra details thrown in (like, not sure why the "hundreds of schools" really factor in). So instead of being depressed by his failure he's just honestly confused. He goes to read the Jedi version of "how to be a successful people manager" self-help books, but he still leaves a cryptic map and doesn't tell his friends, disappearing for years and not taking responsibility to combat the rise of fascism again. Instead of making one really huge and potentially unforgivable mistake, he's just kind of a giant flake in this version.

I think the obvious thing JJ wanted to do was to be like "okay so Luke is Yoda now and Rey goes to train with him in the second one" but he just kind of half-assed it. I also realize I've set myself up to spend the entire day responding to different pitches on how you could make a competent Luke out of the ending of TFA; I don't want to do this but might not be able to restrain myself.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Barudak posted:

For why I added more schools it gives Luke something to have been doing for a while and a reason for him to identify himself as the issue.

Ahhhh okay I assumed the other schools were before his failure with Ben, this makes sense.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Cease to Hope posted:

Nah. I don't buy SMG's explanation that TLJ is the only Luke story you can tell.

I don't know what this is. I am not SMg and I didn't say it was the only Luke story you could tell, I'm saying that based on the story in TFA that TLJ was kind of written into a corner.

So your pitch is fine and similar to the "searching for powers through the Jedi Texts" scenario I proposed,. In this version Luke still plays a hand in Ben's corruption and then bounces leaving everyone else to deal with the consequences, he's gone for years, and then he's on the exact planet that the map points to which means he seemingly hasn't been doing much "searching" --- if "searching" requires combing through the Jedi texts for clues why not do that while helping to stop the First Order.

Han does outright say Luke left having felt responsibility for Ben's fall but maybe this is just a misunderstanding. If Ben was corrupted by the grail quest that does explain why he hasn't told anyone else tho I suppose and maybe would even keep it secret by lying about his reasons for leaving.

I honestly think it's even less of a "TFA2" than TLJ was since you're taking the fairly straightforward story from TFA (Ben fell and Luke felt responsible and left) and then throwing a good chunk of that out, saying "well nah, actually I left for another reason but it did sort've contribute to Ben's fall but I don't feel guilt so much as I just want to find this weapon".

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Cease to Hope posted:

I'm genuinely unclear on why Obi-Wan would be murdering Dexster Jettster.

I'm pretty sure that was a separate thought to the Sleazebaggano thing, and GD was just saying that Dexter was smart

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Saying ďnostalgiaĒ is a key similarity between two movies puts the prequels in the same category as like ďpogsĒ or ďska musicĒ

Itís not about knowing what words mean itís about using them so they make sense

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



The prequels are a lot like my childhood home in the suburbs in that Iím nostalgic for both of them

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Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



CainFortea posted:

"How do you explain people who liked the movies at the time of release?"
"They like it because of nostalgia"

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