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I wish Hayden Christensen had a cameo as a force ghost in TROS 
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Jun 14, 2020 00:57
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One thing I love about TLJ (among a many other things) is that it made the phrase "big rear end <insert whatever>" canon in Star Wars.
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Jun 14, 2020 08:49
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Jun 15, 2020 19:15
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Mmm yes. Ben is Wide&Thick™ unlike many others in the SW universe. Also, the Skywalker boys can't resist showing their nipples in these movies.
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Jun 15, 2020 19:37
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TLJ is genuinely my favorite Star Wars live-action movie. Clone Wars/Rebels remains the best overall SW experience though, imo, with The Mandalorian closely following.
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Jun 17, 2020 09:34
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My tier list: S-Rank The Last Jedi / A New Hope / The Empire Strikes Back A-Rank Return of the Jedi B-Rank The Force Awakens / Revenge of the Sith C-Rank Attack of the Clones D-Rank The Phantom Menace / The Rise of Skywalker / Solo E-Rank Rogue One Some Goon posted:Also, unrelated, but Teagone, is it pronounced tea-gone or tea-gon-ee (like Antigone)? This keeps bugging me. Guy A. Person posted:Teeg one Hah, it's pronounced "tea-gone" 
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Jun 17, 2020 16:23
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Some Goon posted:The sequels are creatively bankrupt, just another spectacle churned out like clockwork from the Disney movie machine. At best it can be said 'they had some cool action scenes'. The Last Jedi is the one film in Disney-era Star Wars that doesn't feel like a committee produced/franchise driven product, and that's why I believe it stands out among the rest and is part of why I love it so much—it's right in line with the OT and PT films wrt being extremely filmmaker driven, with all its weird quirks and directorial trappings (it's easy to pick out TLJ from TFA and TROS simply by how it looks). I could gush over the film for days, easily, and have done so in other threads plenty of times. It just bums me out that others can't see how great TLJ is like I do. Like, I get the divisiveness though and can acknowledge its faults, but maaaaan, lol. TLJ is so good. teagone fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 21:04
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Some Goon posted:It's a solid Luke story, but then the b story of everyone else is largely extraneous. I had recently done a little write up on why I love the Canto Bight scene in particular in the CineD SW thread if you're interested. It's a sequence that I think tells a lot about what Rian Johnson had in mind when setting up the Rose/Finn character dynamic and the "bigger picture" moving forward into Episode IX, but unfortunately the set up RJ gave JJ was completely ignored and those character ideas were never realized in favor of giving Dominic Monaghan more lines than Kelly Marie Tran, and reducing Finn's character to somehow be an even lesser version of his TFA self.
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Jun 17, 2020 22:00
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The hero characterization in TLJ is some of the strongest in the franchise imo. Iconoclast Luke? Amazing path to take the character that I thought was executed perfectly. Radicalized revolutionary Finn? That's such an inspired storyline: defected stormtrooper, turned resistance fighter, now knows the truth behind the war he was raised to fight in and it burns his soul. Love that. Rose being emblematic of the oppressed/impoverished struggle? Her character simply existing opened the door to perfectly embellish a strong narrative through-line in the SW universe; the embodiment of working class folk in the form of a space mechanic (Rose) and a space janitor (Finn) being primed to lead a galaxy-wide revolution against a fascist regime owns something fierce. Such a shame that was never realized. Poe's arc is probably the weakest relative to everyone else's in TLJ, but I have no issues with how his story was handled. Cocky and arrogant pilot who romanticizes war and heroism is brought back down to earth works well enough for me. And then you have Rey going further on her monomythic journey, learning hard truths and deliberately crossing paths with Kylo Ren who she feels and knows is ripe for redemption. AND for a fleeting moment, she feels she has drawn the good in Ben Solo out to thwart a common threat? Rey's story in TLJ is easily my favorite, and I love how its intertwined with Ben's. Though, the best thing about the development of Rey's character in TLJ was that while everyone speculated the story would reveal she was a Skywalker, a Kenobi, or a Palpatine, etc., that she came from a bloodline strong in the Force, Rian Johnson said no; Rey is strong because she's just Rey. And she is enough. I can't really put into words just how disappointed I was with TROS turning Rey into a vessel for nostalgia. JJ and co regressing all of Rey's experience and growth from TFA through TLJ, trading all that in for nostalgic shenanigans? Just, lmao.
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Jun 17, 2020 23:27
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I'm just trying to articulate my own thoughts as to why I think TLJ is the best live-action feature the franchise has to offer in terms of story and character. It's much easier to point out how well TLJ compares visually to the other movies—its production design and general aesthetic is absolutely stellar imo—but most don't want to engage with how well TLJ handles narrative and characterization. And I get it, not everyone agrees with/likes the direction the film took certain characters, or that some plotlines straight up just don't appeal to them, but for me, TLJ hits all the right notes and I try my best to explain as such. I think it's much better than just vaguely claiming "The story and characters are great!" and whatnot, which doesn't contribute much to meaningful discussion.
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Jun 18, 2020 00:20
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Zoran posted:But the real problem is that the film is Rian Johnson's liberal fantasy, and as such its message is not actually iconoclasm or egalitarianism or anything like that. Rather, the conclusion of the movie is that comfortable pablum actually is good and correct. This is a more a cynical way to approach viewing TLJ, but I respect it. I don't agree, but I can see how you're able to read the film like that. I don't believe the film undercuts its classist themes in the way you mention, but instead hands off the narrative with multiple threads open, ready to be explored in the next film. I think your argument works, but only because TROS is a movie that actually exists, lol. [edit] By that I mean, I feel TROS reinforces your idea that the message of TLJ is milquetoast boilerplate-ism is the only way to fly, haha. teagone fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 00:57
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Sanguinia posted:You did great. I was going to gush-post about Last Jedi too but I took a nap and now I don't have to because you did it for me  
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Jun 18, 2020 01:14
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McCloud posted:Poe's conflict with Holdo is dumb. They're being massacred and the Captains response is to do nothing? Oh but it turns out she actually had a plan, and if Poe had only followed orders things would have worked out just fine, he should have trusted the leadership, because they know what they're doing! But the captain couldn't just say that they had a plan or were working on a solution or anything though, because of...reasons? The "your leaders know best and you should shut up and follow orders" theme is reinforced by Leia and Holdo being angry at Poe for...saving all their lives by destroying that super-ship? The Holdo/Poe dynamic is just basic compartmentalization, i.e., information security. I don't see anything wrong with what Holdo did. The reason she withheld information from Poe is because she knows his type: brash, arrogant, foolhardy, etc., why risk handing sensitive information over to someone like that when that person might just go do something stupid with that information? The irony is Poe does stupid things regardless and inadvertently ends up leaking the plan anyways, lmao. And who suffers for it? Holdo, who has to sacrifice her own life because Poe couldn't handle being out of the loop. Holdo was following protocol to ensure the safety of everyone onboard, but Poe was just being a basic bitch about the whole situation. The better question to ask, imo, is what reason is there for Poe to know the details of such a crucial operation? The guy is a glorified grunt imo, so what use is there in him knowing the escape plan? quote:Disney isn't going to follow that up with a movie where Finn organises a revolution that kills the rich and uses their assets for the betterment of the galaxy or whatever. It's half baked, poorly thought out and a clear indicator they had no idea what to do with FN, and I really dislike it. Oh, they also have enslaved sentient horses and slave children. Our heroes take a stand against slavery by freeing the horses. gently caress them kids though. You can tell Finn is a force sensitive because screwing kids over is a proud jedi tradition. I think I responded to you in the CineD thread wrt why I like the Canto Bight scene, so I won't repeat those musings. But two things here: 1) Disney not following up what RJ had in mind for Rose and Finn is something I can't fault TLJ for. Sure, I can agree it does feel like a lack of foresight when you speak of it how you did, but it does seem like Trevorrow's take on Episode IX would have propped up the revolutionary Finn we saw sparked in TLJ. I guess Disney didn't like that narrative through-line for reasons lol (gently caress Disney), and 2) Rose and Finn weren't on Canto Bight to free anyone; they used the horses as a distraction so they could escape. That they were able to free the space horses was just a bonus. Whether or not you believe the horses stayed free and weren't immediately re-captured is up to your own purview though
teagone fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 16:42
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PeterWeller posted:They free the horses instead of the children because they can't ride on the children to escape the cops. Also this.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:56
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I said he's a "glorified" grunt. He might have the respect and rank, but he still falls under chain of command, and remember, he also had recently been demoted by Leia herself due to his blatant insubordination. And I'm not saying Holdo's plan was the greatest or worst tactical endeavor, because that's just being pedantic. The point is Holdo had no reason to let Poe know what the plan was, and that made Poe furious lol.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:13
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Up Circle posted:But that doesn't hold up at all. What stupid thing could he possibly do with the information that there was in fact a plan?  I'm just judging the film based on what happens.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:36
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I'd agree that maybe they could've played up a narrative angle that maybe there's a mole on the ship feeding the First Order intel/coordinates of the Resistance fleet's location or something. But I felt the drama between Poe and Holdo was effective enough "as is" to demonstrate the whole need-to-know concept wrt top secret information and whatnot. But I get how that could be unsatisfying for some.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:43
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Up Circle posted:This is why I can't even understand how you can praise the movie like you do. I can be critical of something but also enjoy it, and there's more to engaging with film than just pointing out its plot holes and analyzing its messages. I try my best to not get caught up with trivial things that don't really affect the story being told either. Obvious gaps in logic and inconsistencies do stand out, but having them deter one's enjoyment of a movie isn't how I prefer to engage with the medium as an artform. I don't believe there's anything wrong with that approach, but it's just not how I personally like to watch movies. A significant part of what contributes to my own personal enjoyment of a film is its art direction and production design, shot composition, and how well directed certain scenes are, among other things. [edit] And I think The Last Jedi is easily the best looking/directed film compared to most others in the series. teagone fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 20:15
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Cease to Hope posted:People have raised good concerns about why this subplot doesn't make a lot of sense I agree. It's not the greatest story arc, and relative to the other plot threads present in the film, I've acknowledged it as being the weakest one. But with all the shortcomings of the sequence, and questioning whether or not it was a "suitable" addition to the series, those criticisms of the Holdo/Poe dynamic aren't enough to deter me from enjoying the film or label it as "bad" imo. I hold to my own opinion of course, and that all these experiences are purely subjective.
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Jun 18, 2020 22:15
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Darth Maul apparently has some interesting stuff going on in the EU. He basically becomes the evil Obi-Wan Kenobi. Darth Maul's arc from Clone Wars through Rebels is up there as one of the best character dramas of the series imo. It's amazing how much depth they were able give him, given his basic bitch intro in TPM, lmao.
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Jun 20, 2020 20:52
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https://twitter.com/SWTweets/status/1342194698568433665
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Dec 25, 2020 01:45
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Grendels Dad posted:The idea is fine, but that doesn't mean you can just... not provide any further info or characterization or elaborate on the character's history and connection with others, or their goals. We don't know anything about any of that by the end of TLJ and "lol he's a nobody" doesn't cut it. Why? What else do you need from Snoke? His character is no different from the Emperor in the OT when it comes to characterization nuance—they're both pretty cut-and-dry villains. From TFA we know Snoke wants to wipe out the Jedi and has tasked Kylo Ren to hunt down Skywalker to snuff out any remaining hope in the galaxy. Kylo fails that task, and we learn in TLJ that Snoke had been grooming Ben to realize the potential of his bloodline and become a new Vader but now doubts Ben's ability to do so because of how unbalanced he became after killing Han... so he takes matters into his own hands and manipulates Ben and Rey in order to get Rey into his Throne Room to try and cull the information of Skywalker's whereabouts himself and is successful. Then he dies because Ben is super horny for Rey.
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Jan 12, 2021 20:57
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Grendels Dad posted:Uh, because there is a whole ton of stuff you could mine for potentially interesting content? For example, Snoke's role in turning Kyle is a complete afterthought. They made it an afterthought, it didn't have to be. Sheev slowly working Anakin in the PT lead to some of the best scenes in that trilogy, the ST couldn't even put Kyle and Snoke in a room together for more than two scenes. If you can't give a poo poo about your characters because their relationship and role are so blindingly obvious to everyone that you don't even need to show anything lest people get sick of seeing it again... maybe don't put these characters in your movie in the first place? You should be comparing the Snoke/Kylo Ren dynamic to the OT's Emperor/Vader dynamic, not the PT's Sheev/Anakin character dynamic. Pitting Snoke against PT Sheev isn't a fair comparison considering how integral Sheev is to the PT's story. Snoke, by comparison, is just a prop for Ben's story, much how the Emperor was to Luke's in ROTJ. The comparison of character roles is almost 1:1 between Snoke/Emperor in TFA:ESB and TLJ:ROTJ. I feel like that's how you should approach Snoke's character. Expecting him to be super nuanced is fine, but I don't think it was necessary since the ST clearly is supposed to be Ben and Rey's story much how the OT was Vader and Luke's.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:37
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:He's the Cobra Commander to the Emperor's Space Hitler, except Cobra Commander actually does things and can explain where he gets his stuff. Ignoring the PT exists, how would you rate OT Emperor as a villain, then? Where did he get all his stuff? I think part of the issue people have with Snoke is there's not another prequel trilogy for the sequels to explain how Snoke got all his poo poo/came into power. The expectation of characterization isn't fair when someone like Sheev had a whole other trilogy to build up his character that we see in the OT. [edit] TFA should've been Episode 10, TLJ Episode 11, and TROS Episode 12. Then Disney could've leveraged the gap between Episode 6 and Episode 10 to showcase the downfall of Ben Solo, Luke's Order, and show how Snoke came into power in another "prequel" trilogy in like 2030 or something. teagone fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Jan 12, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 22:43
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Would mainstream media be too confused if in 2015 Disney released Star Wars: Episode X - The Force Awakens?
teagone fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 23:10
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SlothfulCobra posted:Leaving such a prominent character who is apparently playing an active onscreen role in driving the whole plot without a background just seems cheap and lovely. I'll disagree and say that Ben killing Snoke is what makes Snoke's character great. He ended up just being some would-be poser king and I love that; the revelation of his death plays up the whole Wizard of Oz theme surrounding his character really well and fueled one of the best character moments in the entire saga imo. Like, this probably isn't a great comparison, but imagine criticizing Heath Ledger's Joker in the Dark Knight because the character has no background—he's just a force of nature. I feel like the criticism of Snoke not being fleshed out is putting too much stock in exactly how important he is to the narrative, or what his role is in the bigger picture regarding the development of what is clearly Ben's story. teagone fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 00:11
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Grendels Dad posted:The Emperor wasn't a prop for Vader in ANH. Vader was just a monster at that point, imagine how lovely ANH would have turned out if they tried to shoehorn in some of the stuff about Anakin/Sheev we got in the PT, but it's only exposition by Tarkin and Obi Wan. That's how Snoke feels. The Emperor wasn't even a character in ANH. I made a clear distinction that Snoke's appearance in TFA is more akin to the Emperor's appearance in ESB. The Emperor exists in ESB as an exposition dump that bolsters Vader's character. [edit] Grendels Dad posted:I am just not able to look at the way he was introduced and handled in the ST and go "good enough". We just disagree about the purpose of Snoke's character on a fundamental level I guess. I enjoyed the reveal of him just being some punk-rear end bitch in service to Ben's story. teagone fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 05:54
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Ghost Leviathan posted:You really are supposed to be a cranky, concussed toddler at Disneyland- shut up and enjoy the flashing lights and smiling people, oh gently caress oh poo poo here's the stuff you remember never mind none of that mattered, oh hey have a fun twist on things oh gently caress oh poo poo no no nevermind that doesn't matter, look it's luke and han and yoda and please stop being mad and buy our toys oh gently caress we forgot to make anything new to make toys of Lmao, I won't deny this is absolutely how Disney handling Star Wars has felt.
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Jan 13, 2021 06:17
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The only Disney Star War I don't like are Rogue One and Solo, otherwise everything else they've produced has ranged from fine to my favorite Star War ever, lol. [edit] Oh poo poo, I forgot Episode 9 exists  gently caress that movie.
teagone fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 06:49
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The movie's constantly wanting to have its cake and eat it too in alluding to wider context but not committing to any detail at all. Sounds just like how Disney operates tbh, lol.
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Jan 13, 2021 14:51
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I feel like everyone is being too generous wrt the Emperor's characterization in the OT. TFA's opening crawl gives enough information of the First Order's goal imo:quote:Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. and what Leia is doing to prevent that: quote:With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. What more is necessary, and why? There's a small scale conflict going between Leia's Resistance and the First Order that eventually escalates when the Hosnian system gets blown up by Starkiller base. What I deffo feel could have been better explained in the films is what exactly the Hosnian system was comprised of and what the New Republic loses when it was destroyed. It sort of gets muddled in Hux's speech: General Hux posted:This fierce machine which you have built, upon which we stand, will bring an end to the Senate! To their cherished fleet! All remaining systems will bow to the First Order! And will remember this… as the last day of the Republic! But otherwise, I'm not sure what else the story needed to provide regarding the First Order's motivations.
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Jan 14, 2021 14:38
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nine-gear crow posted:“What’s your name?” Lmao
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Jan 19, 2021 15:53
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nine-gear crow posted:Not Star Wars related, but you remember how we talked earlier about Ethan Van Sciver having a sketchbook full of drawings of Hilter and how he got blacklisted by the entire professional comics industry for being a horrifying racist? Well... What the fuuuuuuck. [edit] https://twitter.com/rewritingripley/status/1373037673158352898 Dude...jfc what loving insane loser pyscho.
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Mar 20, 2021 06:39
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Has anyone read Light of the Jedi? New High Republic poo poo. I was just notified it's available from my library to check out digitally.
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Apr 3, 2021 23:19
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