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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Poopernickel posted:

I agree with this post.

TLJ had much better ideas but it was a terrible movie. I haven't seen ROS so i'm not sure if it's good or better, but given my wiki reading I'm going to guess worse.

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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





vyelkin posted:

TFA introduces weapons that can fire across a whole galaxy and obliterate planets instantly

To be fair though it's easy to obliterate 5 planets at the same time when they're all in orbits closer to eachother than the moon is to the earth.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Chuck Buried Treasure posted:

Poe was right to mutiny in TLJ because Holdo refused to tell him that she had a plan, for no reason, so as far as he knew she wasn’t doing anything and was going to get them all killed. If they had like one line of dialogue where she says, “I can’t tell you my plan for operational security but I have one and I need you to trust me” then he actually would be a cocky hotshot and not just a guy trying to keep his friends alive.

This basically.

The movie was very much trying to convince the viewer that Poe is right. Which subverts the whole idea that it's some kind of teachable moment for Poe, when it seems a lot more like them going "you fool, you absolute fool" to the viewer for believing that maybe the plucky hot shot protagonist might be right about something.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





cams posted:

...i genuinely do not know how you watch the first 20 minutes of the movie and come away with this read of it

pretty much every choice he makes from minute one is wrong and leads to getting people killed for no reason

i actually do know it is because people are pre-disposed to thinking the charismatic attractive male lead is the hero and you should be on his side

There was an entire previous movie with him in it before where he didn't end up killing everyone through mistakes. Just FYI.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





chitoryu12 posted:

Except Holdo is equipped to manage it. She created a plan that was perfectly workable, and in a situation where operational secrecy would be vital (they still didn't know how the First Order was tracking them through hyperspace and they have a Force user on their side who's known for just pulling thoughts of of your mind during interrogation) she had absolutely no reason to tell anything to the hotshot pilot who violated the chain of command, stormed the bridge, and demanded to know all of her secrets. It was like if a sergeant stormed into General Patton's tent and demanded to see all of his upcoming battle plans before he would do anything, then trying to start a mutiny when Patton told him to gently caress off.

The only mistake Holdo made was allowing Poe to still roam the ship after that instead of stripping him of everything and throwing him in the brig.



Except none of that is presented to us. That whole bit in the movie is spent showing US, the viewer, that she has no plan and that Poe is right.

We've heard of Patton and know he did some big general things before. Holdo is just unveiled to us with no prior knowledge and in a way that suggests maybe they're not as good as their non-existant reputation that is being expositioned to us right now is.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





chitoryu12 posted:

I'm sure you spent an extensive amount of time after ROTJ questioning whether Admiral Ackbar had sufficient qualifications to be granted his rank and was, in fact, allowed to be in the chair.

The only conflict Ackbar had with anyone was when he wanted to retreat and Lando convincing him to give the ground crew more time.

It wasn't some kind of Teachable Moment For The Protagonist or some such.

cams posted:

you can argue about the execution of it, cause i think there were quite a few execution problems in tlj, but the narrative intent of the poe/holdo conflict seemed pretty obvious to me. hell, she is even a lady covered in wacky lady colors that guys are inherently gonna find absurd.

You SAY we can argue the execution of it, but when we do you insist anyone who disagrees with you is sexist so I'm going to take this statement as false.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





chitoryu12 posted:

You got fooled because you thought that this was going to play out as a formula and that whoever the movie shows in a sympathetic manner has to be the one who gets proven right in the end. Rian Johnson subverted expectations by playing on the belief in formulaic writing and then showing realistic consequences and mistakes. That was your own Teachable Moment.

Yes, I understand it's a subversion, my point is that it's a really poorly done one. Like, a good subverted trope is one presented and resolved fast enough for it to be your gut response to a thing that proves to be wrong.

Not over an hour with the director building a case brick by brick why the protagonist is right.

It's like watching a mystery but none of the clues revealed at the very end were ever in the movie before hand. It's just badly done.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





cams posted:

this was you incorrectly evaluating what the movie was trying to tell you because it was subverting your expectations hth

nah

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





cams posted:

i mean when i wrote that option i thought it was a funny joke because she absolutely should not have done that because poe is not deserving of special treatment just because the viewer is pre-disposed to prefer his point of view over the female character's

You understand these aren't real people right? I'm not sure you do, but heads up. Like, Poe doesn't deserve or not deserve anything, he's just a character.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





cams posted:

...i genuinely do not understand the point you're trying to make. people, including you, are making value statements on the judgments of his actions, so... i dunno man you lost me with this tantrum

At first I thought you were just trollin, then I took you seriously, but now i've circled back because we've now hit the "lol u mad" stage.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Chillgamesh posted:


Yeah Poe is in the wrong in this situation. He's also gone and mutinied, which as commander is the number one thing you were supposed to keep the guys under your command from doing. good job commander

It's a pretty clear indicator of failure of leadership if you have a mutiny.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





So, does TROS just totally poo poo all over the change Poe had after this "teachable moment and subverted expectation"? I'm going to assume yes given the context of everything else i've heard about this movie.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





chitoryu12 posted:

The only real solution to this argument is "You're right, Poe should be brigged." Arguments about popularity are for disputes over decisions between relative equals

This is where clarity might be useful, because we don't know that they're not close in the hierarchy. For all we know he's the 2nd ranking member on that whole ship (who wasn't in a coma). It's also heavily implied that he's one of Leia's confidants and possibly being groomed for greater command.

Edit: I just remembered he got demoted to Captain right at the start.

quote:

It only nearly failed because of one guy working actively against his commander.

Well, and a bunch of other people.

CainFortea fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jan 25, 2020

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Clearly in a cinematic universe where every single problem was caused by blind faith in authority, "don't have blind faith in authority" is def not a stance anyone can take.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Regardless of where people end up on the whole Poe Holdo thing, I think the big take away here that we can all agree on is TROS is 2 hours of JJ Abrams pouting like a child.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





If they wanted somewhere to film that was basically a shithole no one cared about they could have just filmed it in Idaho.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





nine-gear crow posted:

From my point of view, ejector seats are life support.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





zoux posted:

Loudest possible

They're dumb too.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





HootTheOwl posted:

I'm starting to think that JJ Abrams isn't good.

People laughed when we called him JJ "Lense Flare" Abrams.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Squizzle posted:

the other 2 are a mission impossible, and super 8

He produced Lost before any of those movies got directed by him.

That should have been the warning sign to maybe not let him touch stuff.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Isn't into darkness the one that made all starships useless by letting people teleport across sectors?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Don Dongington posted:

TLJ seems to have followed on directly from TFA, so I'd buy that it might take a little time to get things together.

But the big takeaway from TLJ is that no one came when they called. Which kinda felt weird, since the last time the empire decided to start blowing up planets yea everyone was all aboard the rebel train.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





2house2fly posted:

The difference is that the Empire targeted Alderaan to demonstrate their power, but then their weapon got destroyed, while in the ST the First Order targets the seat of power and decapitates the whole Republic; their weapon got destroyed as well but the Republic government is still wiped out and the First Order is taking over

The planets who joined the rebellion broke away from the seat of their government power specifically to rebel.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





HootTheOwl posted:

She also kills him anyways, so ritual complete, I guess.

Eagerly awaiting Star Wars: Palps back again anyway

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





TremorX posted:

There's nothing to argue though, that entire movie is stupid.

That's right ROTJ is the worst of the entire saga, I said it, fight me

Bold claim when the entire PT exists.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Up Circle posted:

I'm afraid to read the prequel thread why are there 3000 unread posts in it?

The important thing about the PT thread isn't why there are 3000 unread posts in it, but the friends we made along the way.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





TremorX posted:

They are of equal quality

You wound me.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Roth posted:

Back to the prequeldome with ye

That's my secret Cap'n. I never left.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Smirking_Serpent posted:

Star Wars Episode 16, Palpatine returns in an exclusive Twitch broadcast. The chat goes CRAZY!

Sheeve: "And don't forget to smash that like button and subscribe. Next week i'm doing a crazy giveaway, i've got a Victory Class Star Destroyer from Kuat Drive Yards"

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Emrikol posted:

You know, it would have made a ton of sense to have Rey heal her broken lightsaber crystal on-screen in the movie where she discovers her special ability is healing, and not because she read Lightsaber Repair for Dummies offscreen between films.

It's stereotypical, but oh my god, there's so much that could have been done with "Rey the Healer".

I mean, healing typically is used in fantasy tropes as a way of damaging the undead. And if sheev was liching around....

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004






That which is not bad, but is also not not bad. Nor can it be worse than bad.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Chuck Buried Treasure posted:

When I watched TLJ I walked away with a perfect feeling of , didn’t like it but didn’t think it was bad either, just found it mostly boring though it had its high points.

Funny, i'm the other way around. Even with it's giant plot holes I think it's the most interesting of the ST, but most of the good within it is ruined from the terrible pacing and editing decisions.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





drat horror queefs posted:

"This is the saddest day in the history of the rebel alliance and all of our friends are dead"

5 seconds later:



Okay, what the hell is from?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





I don't know. Ray being magically awesome and everything she does only when the camera is rolling, but not at any point previously is pretty weird.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





nemesis_hub posted:

The entire ST is a complete mess, not just TROS. They each have some redeeming facets but overall are stunningly bad. They have a layer of superficial modern blockbuster slickness that keeps stupid people entertained (or at least just momentarily distracted which is what big budget movies are now) but they, and not the prequels, deserve the incomprehending derision.

Nothing, not jar jar, not yipeee, not nooooo, not any of the insane anti prequel hysteria memes, is as insultingly, nihilistically stupid and bad as the Fortnite transmission, the neoliberal hillarybot centrism of TLJ, the pathetic cantina scene in TFA, etc.

If you buy into the idea that the prequels are legendarily, epically bad but that the sequels are good,ok, or even just “normal” bad, you are an idiot. The depiction of Finn is much more racist than anything about Jar Jar. The difference in the reception of the two trilogies is a scathing indictment of nerd culture.

Source your quotes please.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





PinheadSlim posted:

Lmao gently caress me, maybe I should watch them more than once.

Why do you hate yourself?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





JethroMcB posted:

TROS made $20 mil in China, they literally do not give a poo poo about this franchise

Okay, but someone making a movie hoping that China will give a poo poo about it might make choices based on their idea of what chinese viewers might object to.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Is twitter just going to be the new EU where every single character ever on screen for more than 4 frames will end up having their own story tied to either the FO or the Resistance?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Squizzle posted:

sheevs clone, sheeev

Shuuv

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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Ghost Leviathan posted:

I get the feeling the whole extra confusing storytelling style of over-explaining the blatantly obvious

I dunno, you have people even today trying to pass off the idea that some of the star wars movies are actually stories of how the Jedi Order are evil and were rightfully destroyed.

Lots of people will blind themselves to the blatantly obvious given even the slightest amount of unexplained bits.

Also, what legendary "put her hair in a pony tail" thing? I have not heard of this legend.

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