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Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

TremorX posted:

Yeah, I like that.

My original thought after TFA was that Kylo Ren was going deep Dark-Side undercover to get close enough to Snoke/Palpatine/Whothefuckever that he could eliminate them -- that the thing he needed to 'finish' of Vader's was destroying the Sith by harnessing the Dark Side. The 'pull to the light' was what he needed to keep hidden for the plan to work, and killing Han was his attempt to get there. I figured he'd succeed but be unable to 'redeem' himself, so Rey would ultimately sacrifice herself to bring him back. I was close, I guess, but I thought having Kylo be essentially Leonardo DiCaprio's character from "The Departed" had way more potential.


Instead, he became Leonardo DiCaprio's character from Titanic.

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Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

zoux posted:

Wait who are Rey's parents

So it turns out Sheev FUCKS,

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

Abrams, if anything, is undefeated when it comes to totally ruining the mechanics of scale and space travel in a given sci fi universe.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

The JJ films reall sucks at conveying the scale of the star wars galaxy in general. The PT did a better job of that, although they did use a lot of CGI to do it. Forgetting the EU, the prequels showed us that actually yes, the galaxy is a big place, with hundreds if not thousands of civilisations, big fleets, and a lot of territory to cover. The OT didn't cover that many locations, but it did hint at the galaxy being a fairly big place, with a lot going on. The concept that blowing up the galactic capital and a few adjacent important worlds wouldn't result in a massive backlash seems strange, even if the new republic government were wiped out in the process.

The Empire gaining control fairly quickly makes sense, as Palpatine used the clone war victory to garner massive amounts of support from the republic in order to impose authoritarian rule. He didn't totally dissolve the galactic senate until the Death Star was finished, because at that point, Tarkin was promising him that fear of having your planet popped would prevent anyone from trying to defect.

The First Order becoming suddenly dominant in the galaxy after wiping out everyone's galactic representatives and a couple ship yards/commercial/industrial centres or whatever those other worlds were makes far less sense. It is possible that by the time TFA happened, they had already brought a tonne of important/powerful worlds under their influence. Kuat for instance, and maybe some of the former Imperial strongholds that didn't immediately declare independence post-Endor would have jumped on board early, I can see that. But the story we're told in TFA is that the Snoke and the First Order came out of the unknown regions with a fleet of ships and just started loving with people, and that the New Republic is still the dominant government, and in fact they don't consider the first order to be an existential threat to freedom in the galaxy.

Then by the time TLJ happens, there's a handful of Resistance folks between them and total galactic domination.

The notion that the Rebel Alliance were able to get a significantly larger fleet together during the events of Rogue One and ROTJ than the Resistance were post-TFA baffles me. In the original EU, the destruction of Alderaan and the subsequent destruction of the first death star were the fulcrum for a number of planets defecting and providing ships and aid to the rebel alliance prior to Endor, either overtly or covertly. Which makes sense. Planetary governments would be bashing down the Resistance's door to join the war effort after the events of TFA. TLJ seems to have followed on directly from TFA, so I'd buy that it might take a little time to get things together. But by the time TROS started, which is presumably a few months later at the earliest, the resistance should have been much stronger - not necessarily equal to the first order, but not the handful of old rebel alliance tragics hanging around at the beginning of the film either.

TJ;DR: JJ's films make it seem like the Star Wars universe consists of a handful of planets, when the other movies, games, books, all the other material that existed in or out of the current canon, and hell, the presence of so many individual species of aliens indicate it's a huge place.

Edit: The worst part of all of these movies are the goddamn acronyms,

Don Dongington fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jan 30, 2020

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

CainFortea posted:

But the big takeaway from TLJ is that no one came when they called. Which kinda felt weird, since the last time the empire decided to start blowing up planets yea everyone was all aboard the rebel train.

Thanks, that's a far better TL;DR of my terrible rambling post than mine was.

Edit: But honestly, if TLJ did follow on pretty much directly from TFA - and Rey's arc seems to indicate that yes, it does - then perhaps nobody showing up quite yet wasn't too unreasonable. The concept that nobody would show up AT ALL is ridiculous, and if that is supposed to be the big point there, that's kind of dumb.

But the idea that, several weeks/months later, the rest of the galaxy is still sitting around thumb in rear end, is even dumber.

Don Dongington fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Jan 30, 2020

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

I thought the New Republic Capitol planet they blew up was supposed to be Chandrilla, which was Mon Mothma's homeworld, but then I also remember something about a place called Hosnian Prime, which means nothing to me so it's probably that one.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

nine-gear crow posted:

THE DEAD SPEAK!

They say "I'm sick and tired of all these goddamn star wars"

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

Hey thread what do we like more:

The fact that Palpatine's return was revealed in the opening crawl and they didn't even bother with any real build up or exposition;

Or

The fact that the 1991 Tom Veitch comic book series Dark Empire did the whole reborn emperor thing so much better?

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

cuntman.net posted:

the dead speak!

Alex Guinness: "this movie isn't very good."

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

nine-gear crow posted:

Actually Palpatine's return was revealed in 1) the trIler for the movie and 2) Fortnite. The movie expects you to have witnessed either one of those two things, the first of which is already cropped from within the movie itself.

Both are significantly worse than doing a proper dramatic reveal within the movie itself, you know like the whole Vader being Luke's father thing, Vader turning on palps, all the other twists that made the other movies interesting and that this one utterly lacked. Even kylo turning his back on the FO was obvious as gently caress and delivered with no dramatic poise or let's be honest, storytelling skill at all.

Man the more I think about this movie, the more it pisses me off how easily they could have knocked it out of the park.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

gently caress. THAT'S how he was able to afford a massive fleet of planet killer star destroyers.


Patreon.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Darth Maul was technically this, since his double-ender was literally just two lightsabers stuck together that could both function independently. (and it pays off given one of them gets destroyed in the fight with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan)

Thing is, Jedi in the old republic generally didn't have to account for having to fight other people with lightsabers. The Sith were supposedly in hiding for 1000 years until Maul showed up.

I'm sure if Dark Jedi were more of a common thing, this would be a more common occurrence, but the vast majority of Jedi would never face off against another force user outside of sparring. So the risk of damage to one's weapon was significantly lower.

Which is supposedly why Windu and Kenobi were tasked with taking on Palps and Dooku respectively; they were somewhat unique in their focus and training, that being fighting other Saber users. In Kenobi's case it was probably due to being the first Jedi to face a Sith warrior and live in a millenia, and Windu basically invented some crazy Light Saber form that somewhat toed the line towards the dark side, or was one of the only jedi to ever master it. Can't remember which.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

They literally said in the film that they were going to need to ramp the gently caress out of their already existing conscription efforts in order to staff their new sith fleet.

This doesn't make JJ any less of a hack, but it also makes whatever that holocron nonsense is about as good as fan fiction.

(it's bad, OP)

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

I think there's history of The Sith Empire being a thing, with one or two or more sith lords pulling the strings, and an Empire-like army of indoctrinate soldiers handling the military side of things. Otherwise the Republic could just throw a few warships at them and splat them from orbit, dark force powers or not.

Going back even further, apparently there was once a race called the Sith who were conquerors and invaders and may or may not have had force sensitivity, who the sith lords we're more familiar with took the name from.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

a.lo posted:

I went to see ROTS alone the other night and i have other thoughts about the Reylo kiss

I didnít like it one bit, I would like a Ben redemption arc but I wanted it to take longer than like a couple hours.

Yeah sure he always hesitated but he still hurt people specially Ray

Thatís one of the reasons why I donít agree with the kiss.

BUT I do think Ben and Rey share a connection that no one else has with either of them.

They can see what the other thinks (i think) they know each otherís weaknesses and having a bond like that with someone it really is intimate

No one will understand this kind of Jedi experience like the other.

Do I think they share a kinda unique type of connection? Yeap

Is that excuse or a valid reason to make Reylo cannon? Nope

Iím actually glad he died after the kiss

The alternatives in my head were:

-They kiss and he dies

Or

-they donít kiss and he goes with the Resistance

Apart from this dilemma, I think it was a great movie

Reylo was just the ending of titanic except in a universe where people can heal each other so it makes even less sense that they couldn't both make it out alive. Edit: Also the loving ST in general had a boner for making major characters die of exhaustion which is super loving boring. Throw a moon at them at least.

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Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

I mean that definitely wasn't their FIRST mistake...

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