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Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



ungulateman posted:

no, he's funny, you're just insipid

lol

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Roth
Jul 9, 2016


ungulateman posted:

no, he's funny, you're just insipid

Icanhazcheeseburger.rofl

Calico Heart
Mar 22, 2012

"wich the worst part was what troll face did to sonic's corpse after words wich was rape it. at that point i looked away"





hey sir, I'm just going over the budget. It looks like we're sending a trillion credits a year to... A planet that makes clones? Is that right? It says we've sent ten trillion credits there/ You didn't notice that? No one did? Should I do something, maybe just send them a single text or email or whatever? No? Okay. I'm sure we're sending them a trillion credits a year for some reason and someone knows why.

ungulateman
Apr 18, 2012
Hello I am a person doing a thing via buttons. It's amazing what electronic singnals traveling through space can accomplish.

Makes ya think.

Purple m&ms are the best.

my country's government just blew 60 billion dollars because when asked how many employees they had small businesses said '1500' because they were saying how much money per week they were expecting to receive, so yeah, i'd believe it

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


With god as my witness I will rebuild the broken institution of democracy and restore the rule of law solely to responsible and well intentioned adults who take their duties seriously and never act in a way that is even slightly incompetent just so that people will stop saying "my governor sucks, prequel trilogy checks out to me!"

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil. But what really is... evil?

If you really want a No-Prize submission, try this one: Count Dooku is independently wealthy (he's an aristocrat) and involved in the plot, so he paid the down payment on the army, possibly supplemented by an insufficiently scrutinized fund controlled by Palpatine once he became Chancellor.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Dooku didn't do it though, it was Sifo Dyas who Dooku convinced to do it.

Also he probably just paid for it all up front.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



CainFortea posted:

Dooku didn't do it though, it was Sifo Dyas who Dooku convinced to do it.

Also he probably just paid for it all up front.

He just mind tricked the Kaminoen into thinking they'd been paid.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil. But what really is... evil?

CainFortea posted:

Dooku didn't do it though, it was Sifo Dyas who Dooku convinced to do it.

Also he probably just paid for it all up front.

The Kaminoans say explicitly that they never met with Sifo-Dyas, but his representative, Tyranus, who is Dooku.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Blood Boils posted:

Why does Boba Fett have those hair braids?
Why is threepio goldplated instead of silver or bronze?
Why do we never see Chewie use his pouch? What's he keep in there

So hungry for answers, yet Lucas is starving me

Why

Boba Fett is a bounty hunter, he keeps trophies. (He's also been at it long enough to have scars all over his armor.) C3PO is a high-maintenance robot (less the gold and more the polish), befitting his prissy personality. Chewbacca looks like a beast but he's a capable mechanic and pilot, so he needs a place to keep his things, like any person.

Star Wars character and costume design does a great job of telling you who someone is by what they wear and what they look like, a quality shared by both the OT and the prequels.

Note that people are not demanding this sort of information about C3PO and Chewbacca, who are reasonably well-developed characters, but were deathly curious about Boba Fett, who has no real role in the story beyond narrative contrivance. It's just that more of the characters in the prequels are underdeveloped and driven entirely by whatever is needed to move the plot along.

Bongo Bill posted:

If you really want a No-Prize submission, try this one: Count Dooku is independently wealthy (he's an aristocrat) and involved in the plot, so he paid the down payment on the army, possibly supplemented by an insufficiently scrutinized fund controlled by Palpatine once he became Chancellor.

This is a good explanation and AOTC would probably be more interesting if it explored this sort of thing!

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/s...332023332003841

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Bongo Bill posted:

The Kaminoans say explicitly that they never met with Sifo-Dyas, but his representative, Tyranus, who is Dooku.

star wars wiki posted:

Even though the other Jedi had rejected his project, he found a way to carry it out without their consent. Sifo-Dyas contacted the Kaminoans, who were reputed for their clone hatcheries, and secretly commissioned them to grow a clone army for the Republic, which he pretended was a request of the Galactic Senate.

The Clone Wars has more details on it apparently.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil. But what really is... evil?

Cease to Hope posted:

This is a good explanation and AOTC would probably be more interesting if it explored this sort of thing!

"How do rich people pay for things?" isn't much of a mystery.

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

oscar winning cinema enthusiast





Bongo Bill posted:

The Kaminoans say explicitly that they never met with Sifo-Dyas, but his representative, Tyranus, who is Dooku.

Jango's the one who says this, the Kaminoans do claim to have met Sifo-dyas.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Bongo Bill posted:

"How do rich people pay for things?" isn't much of a mystery.

AOTC doesn't even suggest at any point that Count Dooku is rich.

Don't get this mixed up; the story would be more interesting if it have Dooku something to do that's actually in the movie. But fanfic constructions of what happened behind the scenes, however interesting, aren't that.

Cease to Hope posted:

Note that people are not demanding this sort of information about C3PO and Chewbacca, who are reasonably well-developed characters, but were deathly curious about Boba Fett, who has no real role in the story beyond narrative contrivance. It's just that more of the characters in the prequels are underdeveloped and driven entirely by whatever is needed to move the plot along.

A finer point on this: the problem isn't that there isn't enough story about Grievous or Dooku or Maul or whoever in particular; it's that the prequels spend so much time on apparently-pointless excuses for action scenes that what little story they have, what isn't characters blundering from narrative contrivance to narrative contrivance, is spread very thin. It doesn't have to be this story, it just needs to be a story.

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 15:55 on May 22, 2020

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Dooku is like, a baron at best. Not exactly "fund an army for a galaxy spanning polity" level of spending cash.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


As a Dracula reference, Dooku is a noble. Like a Count or something.

a.lo
Sep 11, 2009



governments in star wars are either corrupt or incompetent or both

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

oscar winning cinema enthusiast





Cease to Hope posted:

Boba Fett is a bounty hunter, he keeps trophies. (He's also been at it long enough to have scars all over his armor.)

Cease to Hope posted:

AOTC doesn't even suggest at any point that Count Dooku is rich.

Don't get this mixed up; the story would be more interesting if it have Dooku something to do that's actually in the movie. But fanfic constructions of what happened behind the scenes, however interesting, aren't that.

Doesn't feel like you're being equitable here; Boba Fett, who we never once see take a trophy, obviously has the braid as a trophy - but Count Dooku, who is an aristocrat with a posho voice who holds council with industrialists and trade federations, isn't even suggested to be rich.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



josh04 posted:

Doesn't feel like you're being equitable here; Boba Fett, who we never once see take a trophy, obviously has the braid as a trophy - but Count Dooku, who is an aristocrat with a posho voice who holds council with industrialists and trade federations, isn't even suggested to be rich.

He hangs out on a dirty planet with a bunch of bugs who haven't even invented lasers, despite mass-manufacturing laser equipped droids. Clearly he gambled away his family's wealth as a young space-musketeer, and now has a title with no holdings to give it meaning as the merchant class accumulates wealth and displaces the old nobility. After he joined the Jedi Order he couldn't hook up with a rich widow to regain his wealth, so he did the next best thing and walk the Trade Federation and other merchants straight into a clone army as revenge for usurping his rightful place in society.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


Dooku is a force vampire who sucks out the force from your neck.

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

oscar winning cinema enthusiast





Some Goon posted:

He hangs out on a dirty planet with a bunch of bugs who haven't even invented lasers, despite mass-manufacturing laser equipped droids. Clearly he gambled away his family's wealth as a young space-musketeer, and now has a title with no holdings to give it meaning as the merchant class accumulates wealth and displaces the old nobility. After he joined the Jedi Order he couldn't hook up with a rich widow to regain his wealth, so he did the next best thing and walk the Trade Federation and other merchants straight into a clone army as revenge for usurping his rightful place in society.

I concede defeat.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

josh04 posted:

Doesn't feel like you're being equitable here; Boba Fett, who we never once see take a trophy, obviously has the braid as a trophy - but Count Dooku, who is an aristocrat with a posho voice who holds council with industrialists and trade federations, isn't even suggested to be rich.

That's fair. I should say that Count Dooku's wealth isn't ever brought up. He's clearly an aristocrat, but at no point does he ever really do anything aristocratic other than dress the way he does and have Christopher Lee's accent.

eonwe
Aug 11, 2008



Lipstick Apathy


yes

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Hair Elf

Grievous also takes trophies, more impressive than scalps; the primary weapons of his hated enemies, which he then wields with a skill to rival the master's.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Blood Boils posted:

Grievous also takes trophies, more impressive than scalps; the primary weapons of his hated enemies, which he then wields with a skill to rival the master's.

Like I said, his single personality trait is that he menaces the protagonists.

And you're comparing him to Boba Fett, who I pointed out doesn't have much role or personality beyond narrative contrivance. If you're saying the Grievous is like Boba Fett, I absolutely agree.

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 02:20 on May 23, 2020

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



Grievous isn't really any different from Darth Maul, who also collects lightsabers, or Count Dooku, who also collects lightsabers

as a character he's retro-foreshadowing for Darth Vader, who also collects lightsabers

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Lt. Danger posted:

Grievous isn't really any different from Darth Maul, who also collects lightsabers, or Count Dooku, who also collects lightsabers

as a character he's retro-foreshadowing for Darth Vader, who also collects lightsabers

He isn't very different from Darth Maul, who has a vaguely-sketched history of mastering combat to hurt the Jedi, or Count Dooku, who has a vaguely-sketched history of mastering combat to hurt the Jedi.

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



On the one hand Darth Maul, Count Dooku and General Grievous all have two legs, but on the other hand only Grievous has four arms, so it's impossible to say whether they're all the same or not

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



Yeah, but unlike Darth Maul, Grievous is funny.



FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


Bogus Adventure posted:

Yeah, but unlike Darth Maul, Grievous is funny.





It's like the beginning of a new hope, directed by some guy who hates robots

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


Bogus Adventure posted:

Yeah, but unlike Darth Maul, Grievous is funny.





Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



FunkyAl posted:

It's like the beginning of a new hope, directed by some guy who hates robots

Grievous is a cyborg, goonfriend.


Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Lt. Danger posted:

On the one hand Darth Maul, Count Dooku and General Grievous all have two legs, but on the other hand only Grievous has four arms, so it's impossible to say whether they're all the same or not

Yeah you can list all the superficial differences you want, but the problem remains that the prequels have a lot of inane tasks in lieu of a story, along with a series of underdeveloped villains.

Kart Barfunkel
Nov 10, 2009



They’re not underdeveloped, though. It’s just that the visual designs do most of the heavy lifting, as opposed to the dialogue. I think this is what appeals most to the prequel fans.

E: What I also like about them is the economy of information found within the dialogue. For example, Maul only gets a few lines, but background that couldn’t be conveyed in his character is all packed into the line “At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge.”

Palpatine’s response doesn’t acknowledge this political struggle Maul has. Clearly he’s using him. But from that line of dialogue it’s not difficult to infer that Maul’s species/religion/whatever has been impacted by the Jedi and he’s been radicalized.


https://youtu.be/gug3R-bKt9U

Kart Barfunkel fucked around with this message at 07:30 on May 23, 2020

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Kart Barfunkel posted:

They’re not underdeveloped, though. It’s just that the visual designs do most of the heavy lifting, as opposed to the dialogue. I think this is what appeals most to the prequel fans.

They have little role in the story other than as obstacles to be overcome.

Kart Barfunkel
Nov 10, 2009



Cease to Hope posted:

They have little role in the story other than as obstacles to be overcome.

I think the three villains of the prequels, Maul, Dooku, and Grievous would greatly change the story if they were removed. But you’d have to talk about them individually.

Maul not only runs personal tasks from Palpatine that he otherwise couldn’t do while in office, similar to John Lithgow in Blow Out for example, he represents the outside dangers that the Jedi have neglected to acknowledge/overcome. It’s a major theme of the film and represents the beginning of the end for the republic.

Dooku is the corruption from within the institution. A former Jedi who now is involved with dismantling the order because of his disillusionment. Again this is all stuff that’s pretty clear cut in the dialogue and represents one of the major themes of the film.

Grievous on the other hand is more tertiary to the plot than the other two. The proto-Vader cyborg body and leader/‘hero’ of the droid army is just cool. But also there wasn’t really a character established who would really be a military leader for the other side of the conflict. We only saw the very start of the war at the end of episode 2. Who else could they have used? Anyway as he’s the figurehead of the droid army his role means that getting him = ending the war. It keeps things simple where it would otherwise be messy, when you need to wrap the war up to advance the plot.

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



Cease to Hope posted:

Yeah you can list all the superficial differences you want, but the problem remains that the prequels have a lot of inane tasks in lieu of a story, along with a series of underdeveloped villains.

Han, Luke and Lando are all male Rebels who struggle internally to do the right thing and also fancy Princess Leia. they have little role in the plot but to induce tension by agonising over choices and competing for Leia's affections

at a sufficiently low resolution any film dissolves into broad archetypes and plot devices; no text can survive contact with a deliberate bad faith reading

Sharkie
Feb 4, 2013

Something looks fishy.







If I were rich I would commission and finance the rest of this movie

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FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


Bogus Adventure posted:

Grievous is a cyborg, goonfriend.

So are Threepio and Artoo. They have little guys inside!

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