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While I'm waiting for the meta to settle a bit, someone tell me how the gently caress to play expeditions, because I'm apparently awful at it.
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Mar 5, 2021 15:19
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Boxman posted:While I'm waiting for the meta to settle a bit, someone tell me how the gently caress to play expeditions, because I'm apparently awful at it.
LoR complicates/trivializes some of those by offering you certain "types" of picks where you can just blindly stack Discipline or w/e and then tiebreak on the above criteria when not offered it. The LoR specific way to draft is to check out ftpbust's tier list. They specifically tell you if should "stack" the archetype you picked or try to draft reasonably with the combination offered. The problem is most expeditions don't offer combinations on the tier list. Let's say you have a bad combination of champions/drafts to do a "free win" draft. When this happens you can still get 5-7 wins no problem provided you can play to the board most turns, use most of your mana each turn, answer threats efficiently, and eventually field something your opponent can't answer. You'll drop a loss here and there but it's fine with how LoR expeditions work. I've been forced into plenty of "t4" bases on ftpbust and still ran over tons of t1 drafts. Not through what the t4 draft intended, but through just playing a really simple midrange draft strategy that works in almost any ccg's limited format. The most common mistake I see in expeditions is people overdrafting expensive and not so great cards. If you draft too top heavy your hand is going to be unplayable and even weak cards will run you over. If you draft too situational, too win-more the same will happen. When I'm given bad choices I almost always favor a "base" of ~0-4 1 cost, ~6-8 2 cost, ~6-7 3 cost (3 cost tend to be disproportionately powerful in LoR and carrying over mana allows grabbing more of them than in a game like hearthstone), ~6 4 drops, ~4 5 drops, whatever else is left for Good Cards At Any Cost. In there I try to grab as much hard removal as is reasonable, some balance of removal:followers, combat tricks are surprisingly effective in this game and are even some regions' removal, card draw (also good usually because in expeditions you can frequently run people out of cards in hand). I strongly prefer being the player asking questions whenever possible in limited formats, and if someone has a better draft+draw you'll quickly have to shift into providing answers. I haven't reviewed the math and am just going by experience/feel here - it's likely the truly most efficient curve (ignoring spells) would have an additional 4 drop, 2-3 6 drops, 2-3 7 drops, etc. It's not that important to hit those though because answering stats in LoR isn't usually that difficult & spell mana provides flexibility. All cards are not created equal, and there are plenty of 3 drops that are better than most 4-5 drops. It's far more important to have powerful/resilient/efficient units & spells. Sometimes you'll have 7 5 cost cards and that's okay. Sometimes you'll have 9 2 cost or 10 3 cost and that might be okay if your draft can support it. The idea is more that in a vacuum you'd generally want to play things efficiently each turn and have a combination of cards that lets you combine them to do strong things t2-t9. In some archetypes you'll have a ton more removal (like one time I had 6 mystics shots + 6 thermogenic beams in an ezrael draft and got a rage concede after the 4th beam in game 7) and others don't offer efficient removal or direct removal so you have to rely on combat tricks (freljord is burst-speed, unanswerable combat trick reliant). In some archetypes you won't really grab the more expensive guys and will instead heavily favor hitting your curve and not allowing your opponent onto the board at all. This is much harder to draft than just playing increasingly strong guys and taking even or efficient trades when possible and using removal on anything you can't actually handle. In other drafts you'll grab a bit less low cost cards. As you get more familiar with LoR's expeditions you're able to draft more synergistic things and not rely on the curve as much. But, worst-case if you can just play okay followers and back them up with a few spells you can beat people who are doing greedier/worse things. And expedition doesn't seem to have mmr so those players are very common. Plus, a bad draw can happen anyone so if you have a deck that consistently throws reasonable things out there you're setting up for at least 35%-40% win rate vs even the best drafts. edit: There's far better people than me out there for expedition advice, too. I've only played a few months and just casually do expeditions, but it's a far softer format than hearthstone's arena or limited events in mtg. Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 15:53
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Thank you for that fantastic write up
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Mar 5, 2021 17:11
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Big news: predict has a SKIP button on the right if you don't want any of the cards.
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Mar 5, 2021 18:47
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Shurima is a whole lot of fun. I put together an Azir Renekton mono deck and having them both out, playing the level up spell and then having them level up again because of the sun disc is just  Cost me all my shards but WORTH IT
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Mar 5, 2021 19:09
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Pro-tip: Out of the way makes the loaded dice buff permanent. Meaning for the rest of the game you nab a card every single time you damage the nexus. I'll play this 20% winrate deck I made until I finally get a mill win, this I swear.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:15
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Swim’s Lee Shurima is hilarious if you get the combo prices and have lee survive after you drop him.
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Mar 5, 2021 23:20
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Trying out Nasus/Thresh and it's really fun and doing rather well. Thresh naturally levels really quick from Shadow Isles' shenanigans and by the time he throws out a lantern Nasus is suitably large to be an immediate threat and almost certainly level up right there. Level 2 Nasus' passive -1/-0 to all enemies is super good too and can put people in range of being unable to block the giant dog.
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Mar 6, 2021 06:31
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I got back into the game after some time away and picked up the Sivir/LeBlanc premade. Sivir at least seems pretty fun. I haven't yet actually drawn LeBlanc.
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Mar 6, 2021 17:18
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I have only beaten lab of legends with Miss Fortune and Lucian, and in MF's case only because I lucked into a 1 cost 5/4 Katarina. Several times I get to Sejuani, Foundry or Guard Bots and they roll me over. It's extremely frustrating.
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Mar 6, 2021 19:33
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you probably arent focusing enough on cheesing early game. all these decks are weak as hell early so you have to exploit that and kill them before they get going.
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Mar 6, 2021 19:56
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Yeah, even Mistwraiths becomes unbeatable if you let the game get to round 9 or 10.
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Mar 6, 2021 20:03
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Awesome! posted:you probably arent focusing enough on cheesing early game. all these decks are weak as hell early so you have to exploit that and kill them before they get going.  Generally by the time you reach the PnZ decks, you want to have either a lot of value or a buffed champion they can't remove easily. Taking the health pot item can also really help, especially if it's on a spell that repeats itself somehow.
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Mar 6, 2021 21:35
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YoshiOfYellow posted:Trying out Nasus/Thresh and it's really fun and doing rather well. Thresh naturally levels really quick from Shadow Isles' shenanigans and by the time he throws out a lantern Nasus is suitably large to be an immediate threat and almost certainly level up right there. Level 2 Nasus' passive -1/-0 to all enemies is super good too and can put people in range of being unable to block the giant dog. Going to need a deck code there, chief
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Mar 6, 2021 21:45
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CitizenKeen posted:Going to need a deck code there, chief this is bbg's version CMBAKAIFEIUCWMJUAYCAODI2EYXTWUICAECAKEACAECQCHIBAEAQKGI
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Mar 6, 2021 22:18
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CitizenKeen posted:Going to need a deck code there, chief This is the variant I've been trying out that I found from /r/lorcompetitive. CECAKAIFBMOTAMJUAQCAOAQ2F5IQEBAFAMIACAQFAQBACBAHBEAQCBIZAA
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Mar 7, 2021 00:36
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Did they ever get the kinks in Shyvana ironed out? The stat buff was nice but it still felt like she kind of struggled with a lack of cheaper Dragons.
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Mar 7, 2021 03:42
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Pilchenstein posted:This is good advice but the Foundry deck is absurdly strong early - it can play multiple units and multiple removal spells on turn 1 yeah, sometimes foundry just has an absolutely dumb hand and shits out a full board every turn while clearing yours repeatedly I've played a lot of lab to grind quests or whatever and frankly that one encounter has directly or indirectly resulted in more losses for me than any other
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Mar 7, 2021 03:51
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lol imagine losing with the emperor's deck also that zoe was in there from a previous game and i've no idea how or why some cards/icons linger on the map but lol
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Mar 7, 2021 10:12
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Azir scouts is super fun. You just poo poo out so much chaff that your opponent has to make bad trades or die. The sand soldiers are so disposable that it doesn’t even feel that bad eating a aoe because you have another 2-4 coming out with that second non-scout attack. You also get to live the 0 cost remembrance dream pretty often too.
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Mar 7, 2021 15:34
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Sivir and Kindred are so good in expeditions. After one bad expedition where I didn't get offered any of the new goodies, I got back to back 7 wins in both of my next two runs using these two. Kindred is a persistent source of on-demand removal while also having a solid body with quick attack. Unless the person is running a chaff deck (much less common in expedition) they are going to have to deal with her or lose. If they have equal parity board presence with you this is going to seriously hurt them for playing on curve. Sivir is just a generally powerful card that would work in literally any expedition deck. Good stats, quick attack, and spell shield for 4 mana. If you play her on curve, your opponents are going to have a very rough 1-2 next turns until they can get a creature on the board that can block her. You can use this to snowball your advantage. One draft I got them both which was wonderful. Sivir would eat up all their chump blockers in time for Kindred's ability to actually land on their good creatures.
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Mar 7, 2021 22:09
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I got 3 miss fortunes, i was thinking about making a MF + Azir deck for lots of cheap value. Does that sound good to anyone?
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Mar 8, 2021 00:51
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I preferred Lucian Azir, but I know some people posted MF lists as well that they were reportedly having success with
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Mar 8, 2021 01:39
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ketchup vs catsup posted:I have only beaten lab of legends with Miss Fortune and Lucian, and in MF's case only because I lucked into a 1 cost 5/4 Katarina. The mode gets easier if you'll willing to aggressively reroll for specific starting boons. Or if you pick up insane combination of effects like double-casting Go Hard, but that's pretty luck-based so I won't get into that. MF is probably the easiest champion to get wins with for me (currently at 16 wins) with the +2/2 to 1-cost units, since she has 2 (3, if you count the one summoned from the 4-cost Scout). For your secondary, you can pick up Zoe (Elusive 3/3 whose set also comes with another 1-cost unit) or Elise (even better if you get her down to 1-cost with buffs). Other great boons are the ones that give you 3 spell mana each turn (especially if you're using Zoe, but Elise decks can also benefit through Vile Feast and Brood Awakening), Poro/Saplings (who are all 1-cost and therefore benefit off the starting boon), reduce enemy power on damage (especially if you get spell/boosts that allow you to swarm the board harder). Bilgewater spells that summon 1-cost units (Jailbreak, Double Trouble) are great. Spell buffs that summon random Poros are also great. If you get Scout or Twin Shadows on Zoe, that's also great. 1-cost MF is in my opinion the most powerful non-RNG-based deck in Labs. I can't play on other champions in Lab anymore because she gets through the annoying first 3 fights so quickly compared to anyone who's not Hecarim. Aphelios: 3 Spell Mana on Round Start good cause it gives you leeway to cast Aphel's weapons. Going Gifts from Beyond -> Crescendum lets you have a 2-cost unit out on Turn 1. Zoe is a good partner for Aphel cause she's 1 cost, benefits from spell mana, and I think each Moon Weapon counts as a unique card for her level up requirements? Aphel's also the only champion who's guaranteed to have Lifesteal (Hecarim's deck has it too but it's on a Ephemeral unit), which means he has less issues with HP loss than other decks. Other good boons are -1 to Spells (Moon Weapons now cost 1, 0 if Aphel is leveled up), perma buffs (obvious choice), the one that equalizes your health to your attack, etc. You can't really be outscaled once you get permabuffs, except by like Mistwraiths and Turrets. Hecarim: Starting off with Saplings is a good choice and synergizes very well with Barkbeast. Attacking with Saplings + Barkbeast is 5 damage on Turn 1, more if you have other buffs like +2/2 to 1-costs or Twin Shadows on Barkbeast. Rally on opponent's turn is great on every deck, obviously, but especially so with this one cause of Saplings. Good secondary champion is Zed, obviously. It's a very hyper aggressive deck. Buffs that give units +3/3 and Ephemeral are great on units that already have it, especially the 2-cost shark thing that will return whenever you attack (because of Saplings). Riven: 1 extra mana at game start lets you have Riven up by Round 2, and also lets you do something on Turn 1. Stack poo poo on Riven and kill things. Perma-buffs to retain ATK boosts, scale Health to ATK (so Riven doesn't die to spells / can block units without fear of dying), -1 to spells (so the blade pieces don't cost any mana) and 3 spell mana at round start (in the event that you don't have -1 to spells) are all good. Getting Spell Shield/Fury/Challenger on Riven is also good for safety reasons. LuLu: Start with +2/2 to 1-costs and then turn the deck into a Zoe deck. I don't really think perma buffs is that great on this mode early on cause the Support units will die while giving buffs, and LuLu as a limit on how far she can buff a thing. At least +2/2 to 1-costs lets Pix do something while he's supporting a unit (usually Zoe). Heimdinger, Braum: I won with these guys once and I don't remember how. I think the answer was Poros. Just don't choose Vlad as your secondary for Braum.
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Mar 8, 2021 03:24
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Kindred is a superstar in expeditions, she easily kills off a unit every round and gets bigger with no answer. If you get two of Nasus/Renekton/Azir in your first two hero picks, the game actually allows you to draft the sun disk along with them. I once got a 2 Azir/Nasus/Renekton pure-shurima deck and even got all 3 to level 3 before, but it's honestly really hard because everyone is picking Shurima to try it out and the 4 mana 2/4 destroy a landmark is everywhere.
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Mar 8, 2021 03:43
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:The mode gets easier if you'll willing to aggressively reroll for specific starting boons. Or if you pick up insane combination of effects like double-casting Go Hard, but that's pretty luck-based so I won't get into that. Heimerdinger just kinda sucks because he costs way too much and doesn't do anything on the turn you play him to help turn things around if you're losing or close things out if you're winning. You gotta rely on your secondary champ to do all the actual work. Braum is good if you get the "set power to health when attacking" power, because now he does poo poo the turn you play him.
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Mar 8, 2021 03:52
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I stared in horror as a streamer uploaded a video of another nightmare all in immortal Fiora deck and was quickly relived when a different streamer uploaded a video of a deck based around Ionia's recall cards to make your opponents units just disappear. The Yin and Yang of cards games.
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Mar 8, 2021 06:23
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Whitenoise Poster posted:I stared in horror as a streamer uploaded a video of another nightmare all in immortal Fiora deck and was quickly relived when a different streamer uploaded a video of a deck based around Ionia's recall cards to make your opponents units just disappear. The Yin and Yang of cards games. Was the second one this Grapplr deck? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTsbETGPiLc Game 2 is especially wild
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Mar 8, 2021 12:30
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Khorne posted:The fundamentals of limited are: good lord thank you Whitenoise Poster posted:I stared in horror as a streamer uploaded a video of another nightmare all in immortal Fiora deck and was quickly relived when a different streamer uploaded a video of a deck based around Ionia's recall cards to make your opponents units just disappear. The Yin and Yang of cards games. lol yeah Swim has a deck with Fiora and literally zero other bodies on his site and I sorta want to play it but also it sounds like pure agony I'm not sure I want to inflict on anyone. Boxman fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 14:55
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Yeah, that Lisandro/Trundle deck with like every Recall effect in the game is a lot of fun to play and a real pain in the rear end to play against. Here's the code CMDACAQCAUAQGAIGAECACBICAEAQYMQCAEBCCMIDAMBAKEYWAIAQCAROAQBQCAYEBIJQA
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Mar 8, 2021 15:51
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goferchan posted:Yeah, that Lisandro/Trundle deck with like every Recall effect in the game is a lot of fun to play and a real pain in the rear end to play against. Here's the code CMDACAQCAUAQGAIGAECACBICAEAQYMQCAEBCCMIDAMBAKEYWAIAQCAROAQBQCAYEBIJQA I've been playing liss/trundle with SI removal but this sounds even funnier, I'm definitely trying this today
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Mar 8, 2021 15:55
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Is there a glitch with changing a deck cover? I can put on any unit... save for the champions actually in the deck. Edit: I have to take the card out of the deck, make it the deck cover and then put it BACK in the deck. Sure, okay.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:04
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Boxman posted:good lord thank you I played against this deck and was pretty close to uninstalling afterwards. Deeply unfun hopefully easily countered.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:14
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Yeah I think of all the potential stuff in the game hyper focused Fiora decks are probably the least fun decks to play against in the entire game. Like even when you eventually kill her with Hush/blocker or Vengeance or so on its tedious
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Mar 8, 2021 17:38
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I actually had lethal the turn she killed me which was the worst part.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:32
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Dawgstar posted:Is there a glitch with changing a deck cover? I can put on any unit... save for the champions actually in the deck. Yeah, there is a glitch with the new patch. You have to have an "extra" copy of the card to add it as your cover, which means owning a third copy of a card that's only in your deck 2x, or doing what you said
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Mar 8, 2021 19:04
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I wish it would just let you choose your initial bonus in the Lab of Legends and not randomize it. I'm assuming most everyone just hits 'retire run' until they get the starting bonus they want, right?
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Mar 9, 2021 00:45
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Vandar posted:I wish it would just let you choose your initial bonus in the Lab of Legends and not randomize it. I'm assuming most everyone just hits 'retire run' until they get the starting bonus they want, right? Yup!
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Mar 9, 2021 00:54
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i havent been fishing for specific ones but i restart if all 3 initial ones suck
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Mar 9, 2021 01:09
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I've been playing a bunch of Lab today incidentally. Still trying to get wins for Aphelios, Heimer, Riven, Braum, and Hecarim.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:11
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