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Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?



Hot Rope Guy

Clarste posted:

Like a lot of these bad decks, your goal should be to get a good 2nd champ to rely on
On this topic, it's helpful to remember your ABCs:
  • Always pick le
  • Blan
  • C

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CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


2.11 is a month from now, not two months.

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




Pilchenstein posted:

On this topic, it's helpful to remember your ABCs:
  • Always pick le
  • Blan
  • C


I am undefeated with Zed as second champ

Kris xK
Apr 23, 2010


breaks posted:

I think calling it pr bullshit is a little harsh, they’ve been pretty good about doing what they say they’ll do. I’m sure it takes some time to change course as far as the scope of the adjustments they want to make in these patches. A bit late but hopefully it’ll liven things up.

I see where you're coming from and readily admit that I'm a cranky old fart, but I stand by the PR bullshit designation. It's basically a copy paste of what they said after the 2.8 patch. They only touched Irelia, but did nothing about the giant loving control wall that is TLC.

As someone earlier pointed out, there used to be dramatic and sweeping balance passes. Now it's tiny changes drip fed and I'm not thrilled about it.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?



Hot Rope Guy

Treat Malphite's deck like Taliyah's (her old one, I don't need to play the new one and nobody can make me ) and just ignore it as best you can - pick a generically strong first power (+1 mana gem, rally every turn, summon poros, full spell mana etc) and then build around your second champ. His deck is total loving dogshit in almost exactly the same way Taliyah's was - you take far too much damage while you're trying to build board presence and when it does pay off it's underwhelming. You could maybe shoot for a rally every turn/levelled Malphite stun combo but why bother when you could just grab Trifarian Might and Leblanc?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Kris xK posted:

I see where you're coming from and readily admit that I'm a cranky old fart, but I stand by the PR bullshit designation. It's basically a copy paste of what they said after the 2.8 patch. They only touched Irelia, but did nothing about the giant loving control wall that is TLC.

As someone earlier pointed out, there used to be dramatic and sweeping balance passes. Now it's tiny changes drip fed and I'm not thrilled about it.
The thing that confuses me is landmarks are such a mess. Compare hibernating rockbear and the countdown reducing 2/2 to butcher/keeper. What is the deal with Spiral Stairs? What decks did they see these cards going into? How did this hold up in testing vs Azirelia? There's not even a highroll possibility, it's just weird.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?



Hot Rope Guy

No Wave posted:

What is the deal with Spiral Stairs?
Remember back in beta when one of their core design goals was "no bad cards"?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Pilchenstein posted:

Remember back in beta when one of their core design goals was "no bad cards"?
It mostly is, most cards I can see some justification for most cards' statlines. It's why spiral stairs sticks out so much to me, it just makes no sense. It should be 1 mana.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?



Hot Rope Guy

No Wave posted:

It mostly is, most cards I can see some justification for most cards' statlines. It's why spiral stairs sticks out so much to me, it just makes no sense. It should be 1 mana.
I think maybe they were thinking you'd pay over the odds for helping with Malph's level up but even then it's not good. After being forced to use it in the lab, I have to say it'd be way more useful if it just gave you a unit with those stats or the buff was burst speed.

Kris xK
Apr 23, 2010


Pilchenstein posted:

I think maybe they were thinking you'd pay over the odds for helping with Malph's level up but even then it's not good. After being forced to use it in the lab, I have to say it'd be way more useful if it just gave you a unit with those stats or the buff was burst speed.

What, paying 3 mana + a board spot, waiting 3 turns, and then casting two slows spells isnt fast enough for you?

YoshiOfYellow
Aug 21, 2015

Voted #1 Babysitter in Mushroom Kingdom


The fastest way to level up Malphite is to just play Eye of the Ra'Horak with Daybreak. You instantly get 10 mana worth of Landmarks from one play, and the landmark itself is actually almost resembling decent for being some wide stuns.

Still doesn't make Malphite good unfortunately. I think back when he came out people tried running Malphite/Leona stun heavy decks but I don't think they went anywhere of relevance.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


That one landmark makes Malphite even worth considering playing, but it probably isn't good design to have a single card be the one turn "malphite leveler" card that ignores the need for any other landmarks on his requirement.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


While we're talking about balance changes boy I would like to see the make it rain nerf reverted.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?



Hot Rope Guy


I want to say Zilean's deck is pretty good but this was an absolutely overpowered run so it needs more testing

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


They should really change Zilean to have a per-round effect instead of a on-play effect, it's weird that it's optimal to kill him off and then play a fresh one for a better chance of getting him leveled.

Kris xK
Apr 23, 2010


Holy poo poo two advanced preps? I had no idea the powers could duplicate.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?



Hot Rope Guy

Kris xK posted:

Holy poo poo two advanced preps? I had no idea the powers could duplicate.
I believe stuff like "everyone is a dragon now" or "rally every turn" where there'd be no point are never offered as duplicates but most of them are fair game and it can lead to some truly obnoxious combos

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010


Tried out Irelia and Liss so far and got my rear end kicked repeatedly.

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:

Tried out Irelia and Liss so far and got my rear end kicked repeatedly.

Lissandra and I got through spiders with < 10 health

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


I got two of the "allies get a keyword" and it was a degenerate mess.

YoshiOfYellow
Aug 21, 2015

Voted #1 Babysitter in Mushroom Kingdom


Lissandra/Vladimir with two copies of "allies that survive damage get +1/+1" is pretty busted too. Who needs Scargrounds?

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010


I hate that Spiders has Grasp now.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?



Hot Rope Guy

ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:

I hate that Spiders has Grasp now.
It's always had it.

Kris xK
Apr 23, 2010


What the gently caress I'm getting bullshit like +1 power on draw as my best choice mid run

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


How to beat Zilean in Lab:

- Get Viktor
- Discount Viktor to 1
- Get Arise!
- Discount Arise to 0
- Mulligan hard

Khorne
May 1, 2002

Goonstone Champ x2

Kris xK posted:

What the gently caress I'm getting bullshit like +1 power on draw as my best choice mid run
+1 on draw can be pretty good if you have ways to draw cards or flood the board. One of the more consistent strategies to beat legendary with old Taliyah was to go poros -> +1 on draw. Although there are many better choices than +1 on draw. +1's power is it offsets lots of the enemy powers and overstatted minions and lets you trade using total garbage.

Lots of the common choices are surprisingly strong even though they aren't "free win" type 2nd/3rd picks. Draw 1 fleeting is probably one of my favorites and I will even stop rerolling with it as a first pick with most decks. You no longer need to get card draw rolling for consistency, although it's still nice if there aren't better choices, and your chances of outright bricking and losing to a terrible draw pretty much vanish.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jun 4, 2021

Canopus250
Feb 17, 2005

You guys are taking me along this time? Right? Wait Shaundi is going? This is bullshit man!



I just got two Trifarian Mights as powers in my Lissandra lab run. That plus Ashe with a summon an ethereal copy carried me without needing to think.

Kris xK
Apr 23, 2010


Khorne posted:

+1 on draw can be pretty good if you have ways to draw cards or flood the board. One of the more consistent strategies to beat legendary with old Taliyah was to go poros -> +1 on draw. Although there are many better choices than +1 on draw. +1's power is it offsets lots of the enemy powers and overstatted minions and lets you trade using total garbage.

Lots of the common choices are surprisingly strong even though they aren't "free win" type 2nd/3rd picks. Draw 1 fleeting is probably one of my favorites and I will even stop rerolling with it as a first pick with most decks. You no longer need to get card draw rolling for consistency, although it's still nice if there aren't better choices, and your chances of outright bricking and losing to a terrible draw pretty much vanish.

Yeah I'm probably just tilted because I hate these new decks that are filled to the brim with garbage.

YoshiOfYellow
Aug 21, 2015

Voted #1 Babysitter in Mushroom Kingdom


YoshiOfYellow posted:

Lissandra/Vladimir with two copies of "allies that survive damage get +1/+1" is pretty busted too. Who needs Scargrounds?

Speaking of which. This deck went out of control in the best way. Special shoutout to Scarmother Vrynna just getting huge at frightening speeds due to her own passive attack gain on surviving damage.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?



Hot Rope Guy

Kris xK posted:

Yeah I'm probably just tilted because I hate these new decks that are filled to the brim with garbage.
Zilean seems really good to me so far, think he'll work well with a huge range of champs/strategies.

snergle
Aug 3, 2013


Khorne posted:

BBG & Swim were underlords streamers before LoR.



ive been following bbg since he streamed eternal which was the first game he streamed. its a decent ccg he should consider going back to.



ever want to just ground slam your opponents to death? the corsair triggers the make them cheaper thing. one hand i had her and 3 ground slams and i just removed every unit to ever be in her way and then layed down sej who has tabis and just poke'd em to death with a 5/6 elusive. the 3/2 hit everything for one was crazy with the +1+1 to everything that survives dmg.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Pilchenstein posted:

Zilean seems really good to me so far, think he'll work well with a huge range of champs/strategies.

Zilean's got a number of decent (well, "playable") cards, but all his landmarks as well as Zilean himself are dead draws, imo. The time bombs just don't do enough damage to justify their cost when the enemy is playing overstatted minions, and of course they will directly lead to your death in that one match where the enemies get buffed from taking damage. Even against the spiders they come out too slow to make them a good counter to the deck (compared to every other deck just steamrolling the spiders easily). I thought maybe they'd be better with "cost -1 for created cards" but honestly, not really. I ended up just using Zoe for that run and discarding Zilean with her 1 cost Invoke follower.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?



Hot Rope Guy

Clarste posted:

Zilean's got a number of decent (well, "playable") cards, but all his landmarks as well as Zilean himself are dead draws, imo.
This hasn't been my experience at all, Zil and his bombs rarely win games themselves but all the predict and draw going on usually gets you stuff that will.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Pilchenstein posted:

This hasn't been my experience at all, Zil and his bombs rarely win games themselves but all the predict and draw going on usually gets you stuff that will.

By the time you have enough mana to get that engine going, you could've already won the game twice over if you'd focused on filling your deck with better cards. IMO.

That said, I'm hardly an expert at this game or any other card game, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. Speaking of which, I just won with a Taliyah-focused Taliyah deck and and tbh I think it's pretty decent now? You've just got to choose the Hibernating Rockbear as your starter passive and use her tools to boost it out early.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?



Hot Rope Guy

Clarste posted:

By the time you have enough mana to get that engine going, you could've already won the game twice over if you'd focused on filling your deck with better cards. IMO.
It's not about getting an engine going, it's just usually the case that if you don't have a strong play on any given turn you can predict and/or draw so you've got a better play coming up. Also you can get some absolutely obnoxious statlines going with the researchers and that dork who buffs himself when predicted. I went Zilean/Soraka with the "get +1/+1 for surviving damage" power and won 3 or so games by drawing Star Spring late and just doing 22+ healing on the turn I played it

hit button
Mar 18, 2012




Malphite's deck is easily the weakest of the new lab champs imo. The landmark archetype isn't too hot to start with, and some of the cards they picked for him really suck. It also suffers from the mode being disproportionately punishing to slow decks (mainly because of foundry). That makes Lissandra a bit awkward too, but at least she has a bunch of native nexus healing in her deck.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Pilchenstein posted:

It's not about getting an engine going, it's just usually the case that if you don't have a strong play on any given turn you can predict and/or draw so you've got a better play coming up. Also you can get some absolutely obnoxious statlines going with the researchers and that dork who buffs himself when predicted. I went Zilean/Soraka with the "get +1/+1 for surviving damage" power and won 3 or so games by drawing Star Spring late and just doing 22+ healing on the turn I played it

You need an engine if you're relying on the Time Bombs to draw, otherwise they are just dead draws themselves that cost 2 mana to get rid of. Predict is fine, sure, but Zilean has other, better, Predict cards in his deck. Like, even the 2-3 2-drop he's competing with personally has a better stat line in most cases.

Wollawolla
Jan 15, 2007

Are you gonna smash my skull and breathe my blood-mist?


None of the secondary champion packages really do a great job supporting or complementing the landmark focused decks. Lissandra’s thralls are strong enough when they come online to be able to make up for a slow start and clogged up board space, but Zilean and Malphite feel horrible. I figured Riot had learned their lesson with how horribly received the original Taliyah deck was, but apparently not.

Super Librarian
Jan 4, 2005

HAIRBALL, CATNIP, AND YARN, HEED MY CALL





I don't know if it's a weird Labs thing or what, but I definitely just had a block disappear on me. AI queued up an attack plus a Vile Feast on a 2/1, I used the 2/1 to block a normal-rear end spider, used Shakedown to deny the Vile Feast, and I didn't get the phantom blocker thing. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things (unless I go on to lose to Thresh by 1 HP) but it seems like that happens to me every once in a while in Labs and it gets annoying!

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hit button
Mar 18, 2012




Super Librarian posted:

I don't know if it's a weird Labs thing or what, but I definitely just had a block disappear on me. AI queued up an attack plus a Vile Feast on a 2/1, I used the 2/1 to block a normal-rear end spider, used Shakedown to deny the Vile Feast, and I didn't get the phantom blocker thing. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things (unless I go on to lose to Thresh by 1 HP) but it seems like that happens to me every once in a while in Labs and it gets annoying!

If you used shakedown before actually pressing the Block button, then it would resolve at burst speed and remove your unit before the block was committed. The only way it could have worked the way you wanted was if you used it in response to an opponent's action after committing your blocker.

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