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mistaya
Oct 18, 2006

Cat of Wealth and Taste


Unyielding zed shouldn't ever happen because... like...

You play Zed on 3 (3 mana.) Most decks can drop 2 damage on it- which is why you save it till 3 so you have mana to protect it. If you don't have to protect it you get 7 mana next turn, (4+3 banked) if you do have to protect it then you have less than that, probably 4 because most demacia/ionia protections (barrier, twin disc) are 3 mana spells. Maybe 5 if you got the +1/1 lucian buff that i can't remember the name of.

So you go into round 4 with zed down and an otherwise empty board. You can't get unyielding yet. You hopefully don't lose half your HP because you have nothing to defend with. Or you drop a 1-2 drop to defend with depending on your mana but you must end the round with 3 mana.

Round 5 you can unyielding your zed, at last, and you now have a 3/2 quick attack + clone that can't be killed. It could be a 4/3 if they played no units but if they played no units then your zed almost certainly died to removal OR you had to spend mana on protecting it which means you can't play unyielding yet...

Basically Zed is a powerful early game card that requires a constant drip of spell mana to do its job which doesn't synergize with unyielding's high buy in cost at all. You could potentially run it as a late game OTK bomb and drop it on your 6/5 stand alone'd Zed on turn like 8 or something but that really begs the question of how you are still having your fatty zed around without having won the game yet.

TLDR: Zed gotta go fast, Unyielding is a stall and grind them out card. Do not play well together.
e: Fiora doesn't care that it takes her a bit to get to Unyielding cuz her win-con is 4 kills which you can get on both defending AND attacking rounds plus any single combats she happens to draw into.

mistaya fucked around with this message at 09:28 on May 18, 2020

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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Mobalytics came up with something pretty comprehensive:

https://lor.mobalytics.gg/stats/decks

The deck that stands out to me as underplayed is Elise/Thresh/Tryndamere Endure spiders. There are a few promising deep and keg control decks as well. Otherwise there aren't too many surprises. Also just take a flat 4% off of everything's winrate before considering taking it at face value replay statistics sites tend to have inflated winrates.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:22 on May 18, 2020

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

Since when does Anivia get restored to full health on level up? I don't mean from egg form, I mean Anivia had 2 hp when turn 10 started and then had 5 and it cost me the game

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012




mistaya posted:

Unyielding zed shouldn't ever happen because... like...

You play Zed on 3 (3 mana.) Most decks can drop 2 damage on it- which is why you save it till 3 so you have mana to protect it. If you don't have to protect it you get 7 mana next turn, (4+3 banked) if you do have to protect it then you have less than that, probably 4 because most demacia/ionia protections (barrier, twin disc) are 3 mana spells. Maybe 5 if you got the +1/1 lucian buff that i can't remember the name of.

So you go into round 4 with zed down and an otherwise empty board. You can't get unyielding yet. You hopefully don't lose half your HP because you have nothing to defend with. Or you drop a 1-2 drop to defend with depending on your mana but you must end the round with 3 mana.

Round 5 you can unyielding your zed, at last, and you now have a 3/2 quick attack + clone that can't be killed. It could be a 4/3 if they played no units but if they played no units then your zed almost certainly died to removal OR you had to spend mana on protecting it which means you can't play unyielding yet...

Basically Zed is a powerful early game card that requires a constant drip of spell mana to do its job which doesn't synergize with unyielding's high buy in cost at all. You could potentially run it as a late game OTK bomb and drop it on your 6/5 stand alone'd Zed on turn like 8 or something but that really begs the question of how you are still having your fatty zed around without having won the game yet.

TLDR: Zed gotta go fast, Unyielding is a stall and grind them out card. Do not play well together.
e: Fiora doesn't care that it takes her a bit to get to Unyielding cuz her win-con is 4 kills which you can get on both defending AND attacking rounds plus any single combats she happens to draw into.

Or you can just hand buff him a bunch while you still make the opponent focus on elusive threats then drop him when hes fat enough to survive a round then make him invincible.

neaden
Nov 4, 2012


I think I'm going to get one of the pets, which one should it be and why should it be the baby ghost shark?

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle


The caster minion is pretty cute. I'm a dirty poor so I'm sticking with my weird free blue furby

mistaya
Oct 18, 2006

Cat of Wealth and Taste


Sedisp posted:

Or you can just hand buff him a bunch while you still make the opponent focus on elusive threats then drop him when hes fat enough to survive a round then make him invincible.

I've played enough kinkou elusives to say that if you're using a jeweled protector on zed in the late game, you probably don't need to make him invincible for him to do his job just fine. It's just win-more.

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012




mistaya posted:

I've played enough kinkou elusives to say that if you're using a jeweled protector on zed in the late game, you probably don't need to make him invincible for him to do his job just fine. It's just win-more.

???

Yeah if your opponent is burn. Lots of decks van hold you off till five without being the garunteed victor.

Elvis_Maximus
Oct 7, 2007

Relaxing AND Refreshing


Do you keep the cards you pick with expeditions? Just started playing tonight and got my first free expedition token, so I was going to give it a run tomorrow.

Not that I'm planning on rare drafting or something, which doesn't seem like it would work anyway given what I know about the way you do picks. But it's always nice as a tie breaker!

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

Elvis_Maximus posted:

Do you keep the cards you pick with expeditions?
You do not. You're guaranteed some cards as a reward though.

Hauki
May 11, 2010



neaden posted:

I think I'm going to get one of the pets, which one should it be and why should it be the baby ghost shark?

as far as animations go, Iím partial to t-hex and the blazing blue butthole beast, baley

I havenít made a decision yet either though

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

The exploding monkey is obviously the best pet

OxMan
May 13, 2006

COME SEE
GRAVE DIGGER
LIVE AT MONSTER TRUCK JAM 2KXX





I'm very annoyed at how quick attack seems to be broken in expedition. (on Android if it makes a difference)

ShaneB
Oct 21, 2002



I got the monkey day 1 of 1.0 and kinda just like it ok.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013


OxMan posted:

I'm very annoyed at how quick attack seems to be broken in expedition. (on Android if it makes a difference)

Use challenger or vulnerable to make them block you. Or use removal. Most quick attack units have low health.

OxMan
May 13, 2006

COME SEE
GRAVE DIGGER
LIVE AT MONSTER TRUCK JAM 2KXX





doingitwrong posted:

Use challenger or vulnerable to make them block you. Or use removal. Most quick attack units have low health.

No I mean every now and then I'll attack a 3 3 with a 4 2 quick attack and they'll both die. It's only happened a few times but it happened twice in one match earlier and cost me the expedition. I don't know if it's some kind of display error or an actual bug I don't know if something was buffing them and it didn't show it was just annoying AF

Eeepies
May 29, 2013

No, that's Magic!


OxMan posted:

No I mean every now and then I'll attack a 3 3 with a 4 2 quick attack and they'll both die. It's only happened a few times but it happened twice in one match earlier and cost me the expedition. I don't know if it's some kind of display error or an actual bug I don't know if something was buffing them and it didn't show it was just annoying AF

Are you blocking with it? Quick Attack only triggers when you're attacking, not defending.

OxMan
May 13, 2006

COME SEE
GRAVE DIGGER
LIVE AT MONSTER TRUCK JAM 2KXX





Eeepies posted:

Are you blocking with it? Quick Attack only triggers when you're attacking, not defending.

No, like I said, it was an attack, but it was during a rally on the opponents turn so maybe that had something to do with it.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


Pilchenstein posted:

Since when does Anivia get restored to full health on level up? I don't mean from egg form, I mean Anivia had 2 hp when turn 10 started and then had 5 and it cost me the game

I have noticed some oddness at times when on levelup a champion fully heals and it's been around since the beta, if I had to guess the programming of it I think it has to do with having a full board while a new unit is being added to the board and the champion replacing itself with a fresh version instead of destroying itself to make space.

Seems like something they should of fixed right away though and have not seen it happen lately.

Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 08:28 on May 19, 2020

srulz
Jun 23, 2013


OxMan posted:

No, like I said, it was an attack, but it was during a rally on the opponents turn so maybe that had something to do with it.

I've played only on Android, and just now finished multiple games with Katarina levelled up, and Quick Attack + Rally seems to be working just fine. Are you sure it's not Barrier? Or Tough? Or Single Combat? Anyway if you have some videos/pictures I can probably help explain the situation somehow.

Obviously 1 other possibility is some connection hiccups. This may cause some states of the game to be skipped for example. Only happen to me a few times when I'm at a horrendous low-signal place though, this game's netcode is miles better than other comparable games, eg. MTG Arena.

OxMan
May 13, 2006

COME SEE
GRAVE DIGGER
LIVE AT MONSTER TRUCK JAM 2KXX





srulz posted:

I've played only on Android, and just now finished multiple games with Katarina levelled up, and Quick Attack + Rally seems to be working just fine. Are you sure it's not Barrier? Or Tough? Or Single Combat? Anyway if you have some videos/pictures I can probably help explain the situation somehow.

Obviously 1 other possibility is some connection hiccups. This may cause some states of the game to be skipped for example. Only happen to me a few times when I'm at a horrendous low-signal place though, this game's netcode is miles better than other comparable games, eg. MTG Arena.

I think single combat might have been it. If you're attacking when it's cast already and it doesn't go off that's kind of crap.

I also noticed with double attack if the first kills the enemy the second won't go to life points which again, kind of crap.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


OxMan posted:

I also noticed with double attack if the first kills the enemy the second won't go to life points which again, kind of crap.

Unless you have Overwhelm having a unit opposite of the attacking unit will block all damage to the nexus, including double attack, but with overwhelm you can damage or remove the blocker to do full damage.

Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 09:34 on May 19, 2020

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

Unless you have Overwhelm having a unit opposite of the attacking unit will block all damage to the nexus, including double attack, but with overwhelm you can damage or remove the blocker to do full damage.

Which is why Miss Fortune gets Overwhelm and it's hilarious.

ShaneB
Oct 21, 2002



After 10 weeks of play, I have reached set complete! Or at least the equivalent of it, in that I have enough wilds and shards to finish it off. There are plenty of cards I'm not bothering to craft.

It's pretty crazy that this game is that easy to F2P.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


So was looking at the region track rewards and noticed this.

Noxu
s!

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004



OxMan posted:

I think single combat might have been it. If you're attacking when it's cast already and it doesn't go off that's kind of crap.

Right, "striking each other" is not the same as you attacking and them blocking. I can see why it's confusing though since the quick attack symbol is lit up whenever you're attacking

Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of


OxMan posted:

I think single combat might have been it. If you're attacking when it's cast already and it doesn't go off that's kind of crap.

I also noticed with double attack if the first kills the enemy the second won't go to life points which again, kind of crap.

It's hilarious how many these interactions are sort of weird in the abstract but completely natural if you've played enough Magic.

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle


OxMan posted:

I think single combat might have been it. If you're attacking when it's cast already and it doesn't go off that's kind of crap.

I also noticed with double attack if the first kills the enemy the second won't go to life points which again, kind of crap.

Quick Attack is specific in its use. It is only when attacking. Single Combat literally says that the units strike each other, so Quick Attack literally does not come into play there, even if it's during a combat phase otherwise. Single Combat resolves in its own pocket, where it is non-combat.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009


So, fun interaction with Claws of the Dragon. If you have Claws of the Dragon in play, cast Single Combat targeting your Claws of the Dragon and an opponent's creature, they recall your creature, and you respond with any spell, the stack will resolve like so.

Second Spell > Claws of the Dragon recalls > Single Combat casts, summoning Claws of the Dragon to participate.

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005

Tits and cooters, Mr Bond.


PJOmega posted:

So, fun interaction with Claws of the Dragon. If you have Claws of the Dragon in play, cast Single Combat targeting your Claws of the Dragon and an opponent's creature, they recall your creature, and you respond with any spell, the stack will resolve like so.

Second Spell > Claws of the Dragon recalls > Single Combat casts, summoning Claws of the Dragon to participate.

It... definitely seems like it should not work like that, but nice find

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle


I wonder if the reason that works is if it resolves all spells in a single step, and Claw is checked between # of spells cast and the actual effect of those spells, so it is counted as available for combat at both beginning and end of the check? Or it's wizards

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010



I canít stop drafting Miss Fortune decks in Expeditions. Sheís just so good, nobody else comes close for me.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Fortune smiles.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009


kingcobweb posted:

It... definitely seems like it should not work like that, but nice find

I'm with you, will be doing some testing later when I get done with work to see if single combat was the second Spell or if I misremembered.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009


Locke Dunnegan posted:

I wonder if the reason that works is if it resolves all spells in a single step, and Claw is checked between # of spells cast and the actual effect of those spells, so it is counted as available for combat at both beginning and end of the check? Or it's wizards

From a MTG background it surprised me, but I suppose it could make sense given that card states are tracked between zones.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I've seen something happen with it similarly where a spell is targeting it, it gets retreated, then it pops back out and the spell is still targeting it. Having single combat itself pull it back out is really funny tho.

Hauki
May 11, 2010



You can do some wild poo poo with claw in those decks.

I was starting an effortpost about it earlier because I've been playing pretty much exclusively varieties of Lee Sin since the expansion landed, but there's tons of bizarre edge cases and like every other day I get surprised by a new interaction, so I don't know how much good it'd be. I've also tried at least 4-5 different variations of it and each one has its own weird nuances. Mobalytics has only tracked 40 games with it, but I think I've played at least twice that many and I'm still discovering things, haha.

ShaneB
Oct 21, 2002



After reaching finished collection I finished off Deep and Lee Sin stuff and holy poo poo Lee Sin decks are very hard to play well and Deep is loving fun. It just has such insane endgame.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009


ShaneB posted:

After reaching finished collection I finished off Deep and Lee Sin stuff and holy poo poo Lee Sin decks are very hard to play well and Deep is loving fun. It just has such insane endgame.

There is no feeling like stabilizing at 1hp with Karma & Lux against a board of sea monsters and daddy Nautilus. If they pair him up with anyone but Maokai that is, Nautilus/Maokai is control's kryptonite.

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Hauki
May 11, 2010



there's also no feeling like stabilizing at 1hp vs. deep & kicking a flipped naut back into their own face for lethal

or karma/ez, invincible fiora, etc.

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