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ShaneB
Oct 21, 2002



kick em away, boy

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Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of


Hypothetical: I have a fresh fiora, swing with a full board. They block with 4 dudes, I judgement targeting my Fiora. She definitely levels, right? Do I win the game right there, or does the game not check for Fiora's alternate win condition until leveled Fiora kills a mans?

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012




Locke Dunnegan posted:

I wonder if the reason that works is if it resolves all spells in a single step, and Claw is checked between # of spells cast and the actual effect of those spells, so it is counted as available for combat at both beginning and end of the check? Or it's wizards

The wording on claw is play not cast. So the second your hand sees you have played two spells in a given round any claws you have get summoned from hand.

Its triggering from your second spell not single combat and as claws is still on the field single target resolves as normal.

Boxman posted:

Hypothetical: I have a fresh fiora, swing with a full board. They block with 4 dudes, I judgement targeting my Fiora. She definitely levels, right? Do I win the game right there, or does the game not check for Fiora's alternate win condition until leveled Fiora kills a mans?


Immediately win the game.

ShaneB
Oct 21, 2002



Boxman posted:

Hypothetical: I have a fresh fiora, swing with a full board. They block with 4 dudes, I judgement targeting my Fiora. She definitely levels, right? Do I win the game right there, or does the game not check for Fiora's alternate win condition until leveled Fiora kills a mans?

I have won and lost games this way.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009


Sedisp posted:

The wording on claw is play not cast. So the second your hand sees you have played two spells in a given round any claws you have get summoned from hand.

Its triggering from your second spell not single combat and as claws is still on the field single target resolves as normal.

But it goes to hand from the recall effect in the middle of it.

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012




PJOmega posted:

But it goes to hand from the recall effect in the middle of it.

Doesn't matter it's essentially a board state check.

Have you cast two spells at any point of the round? Put claw into play. Lets say that claw survives the single combat and the opponent really want to make sure your claw stays off the field so they try to will it back into your hand. Will of ionia resolves putting the claw back into hand which will then fart itself back onto the board.

Edit: Alternatively Claws gets farted out because although it returns to your hand according to the stack you have played two spells this round thereby farting claws back out.

Incidentally this is why I prefer mtgs stack.

Sedisp fucked around with this message at 02:23 on May 20, 2020

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Sedisp posted:

Doesn't matter it's essentially a board state check.

Have you cast two spells at any point of the round? Put claw into play. Lets say that claw survives the single combat and the opponent really want to make sure your claw stays off the field so they try to will it back into your hand. Will of ionia resolves putting the claw back into hand which will then fart itself back onto the board.

Edit: Alternatively Claws gets farted out because although it returns to your hand according to the stack you have played two spells this round thereby farting claws back out.

Incidentally this is why I prefer mtgs stack.

What happens if you draw a brand new Claw in the middle of the round, after casting two spells?

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012




Clarste posted:

What happens if you draw a brand new Claw in the middle of the round, after casting two spells?

If I am recalling from a game I played a couple days ago correctly she immediately gets farted out.

Hauki
May 11, 2010



Sedisp posted:

If I am recalling from a game I played a couple days ago correctly she immediately gets farted out.

Yes

also, if itís the first card drawn in a series etc., it will hit the battlefield before drawing the next card for whatever thatís worth

and if you have a full board, it can be a good way to just mill yourself

Hauki fucked around with this message at 03:08 on May 20, 2020

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011




Alright, so I think the game wants me to make a swain deck.

This is from a gold region chest.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

Expeditions are a loving shitshow at the moment, with every other deck being seamonsters and/or stealing half your cards and what's the betting they don't actually do anything about it in tuesday's patch?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I don't really expect anything for constructed from the patch next week. Here are the top winrate decks on ladder:

https://lor.mobalytics.gg/stats/decks

You'll notice a lot of different archetypes with high winrates, all of which have different power cards. Boomcrew rookie, grizzled ranger, they who endure, and Vi are all run in extremely powerful decks that have very little overlap. What can you safely change, and for what goal?

Buckets in expedition will be changed for sure tho (scout it out specifically will get nerfed).

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004



ShaneB posted:

After reaching finished collection I finished off Deep and Lee Sin stuff and holy poo poo Lee Sin decks are very hard to play well and Deep is loving fun. It just has such insane endgame.

Have you played the mirror match yet with Maokai/Nautilus? It ends up being a very funny game of chicken with both players racing to get Maokai off first (which makes the bottom of your deck very likely to be champion cards, which means you can easily have the whole thing obliterated when he levels) or hold a Nautilus to shuffle back in tossed cards

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle


goferchan posted:

Have you played the mirror match yet with Maokai/Nautilus? It ends up being a very funny game of chicken with both players racing to get Maokai off first (which makes the bottom of your deck very likely to be champion cards, which means you can easily have the whole thing obliterated when he levels) or hold a Nautilus to shuffle back in tossed cards

Speaking of which, I think it's incredibly bullshit that Maokai's level up is a guaranteed obliterate on every single champion in your deck. Considering the wording I originally thought it mean it didn't even touch champs so you'd have champs + 4 non-champs, but nope! A single 1/1 spidey boy can survive Maokai but not a hundred Tryndameres

ShaneB
Oct 21, 2002



goferchan posted:

Have you played the mirror match yet with Maokai/Nautilus? It ends up being a very funny game of chicken with both players racing to get Maokai off first (which makes the bottom of your deck very likely to be champion cards, which means you can easily have the whole thing obliterated when he levels) or hold a Nautilus to shuffle back in tossed cards

The Mirror is definitely a Deep race, and I have no idea how to play it best yet at all.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009


Locke Dunnegan posted:

Speaking of which, I think it's incredibly bullshit that Maokai's level up is a guaranteed obliterate on every single champion in your deck. Considering the wording I originally thought it mean it didn't even touch champs so you'd have champs + 4 non-champs, but nope! A single 1/1 spidey boy can survive Maokai but not a hundred Tryndameres

If it didn't obliterate champions it would be awful due to champion spells shuffling champion copies back in.

srulz
Jun 23, 2013


Pilchenstein posted:

Expeditions are a loving shitshow at the moment, with every other deck being seamonsters and/or stealing half your cards and what's the betting they don't actually do anything about it in tuesday's patch?

Not sure if we're playing at different times or with different MMR, but the strongest faction in Expedition currently by far is Demacia, followed by SI. Deep is good as well, but only really strong during the first few rounds in which you started with less cards. Other than that, you are usually winning or almost winning by the time they went Deep.

Also the factions seems to be quite well balanced (other than Demacia as mentioned earlier), with the weakest probably being P&Z at the moment. Though I haven't had much practice with that region admittedly.

PJOmega posted:

If it didn't obliterate champions it would be awful due to champion spells shuffling champion copies back in.

Exactly. This is why Maokai is like that.

srulz fucked around with this message at 02:07 on May 21, 2020

Shabadu
Jul 18, 2003

rain dance

I've been having decent success with Noxus/SI and Noxus/Bilge aggro but they're not as free as the Quinn pick every Grizzled Ranger decks

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle


I don't understand why that is an argument for it. I guess just to keep two no win con Maokai decks from cycling Sap until turn limit?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Maokai straight up wouldn't be a win con if champions stuck around. The card would destroy your opponent's deck, then they would just loop their champion spells forever which I guess could be a win con sometimes, but usually not.

There's still potential for that, but it's not as common as you'd expect.

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle


Literally who gives the slightest poo poo if someone does that though? If you're playing against someone who can completely stall you out with the same card every turn after you've blown up their deck then they deserve to win or tie.

I mean, I'm not arguing it should change. I just think it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and isn't a problem if it did.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


That's the whole point of the card, you win when you wouldn't otherwise. Maokai can win even if he doesn't have board control and is otherwise losing the game, the level up would serve no purpose otherwise.

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004



I think Locke Dunnegan is saying "make the 5 remaining cards completely random", not "champions are immune from the obliterate effect". The latter would be a huge nerf, the former wouldn't change the power level too much but I think the mirror could end with two Maokais infinitely attacking into each other, regenerating, and playing sap more often than anyone would want it to

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


oh, in that case I'll mention I think maokai into pilfered goods is supposed to be an intended (but not super competitive) combo.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013


In expeditions:

Damacia / Bilgewater feels like playing constructed.
Pure Shadow Isles is evil, especially with a bunch of the drain 1 per unit that dies guys.
Shadow Isles / Damacia is mega evil.
Shadow Isles / Noxus is hard to get right though it feels like it should work.
Bilgewater / Freljord has a lot of synergies and combat tricks
Ionia / Damacia is not bad
Ionia / anything else seems like a mess.
Piltover & Zaun is OK alongside one of the good regions.

srulz
Jun 23, 2013


doingitwrong posted:

In expeditions:

Damacia / Bilgewater feels like playing constructed.
Pure Shadow Isles is evil, especially with a bunch of the drain 1 per unit that dies guys.
Shadow Isles / Damacia is mega evil.
Shadow Isles / Noxus is hard to get right though it feels like it should work.
Bilgewater / Freljord has a lot of synergies and combat tricks
Ionia / Damacia is not bad
Ionia / anything else seems like a mess.
Piltover & Zaun is OK alongside one of the good regions.

It's interesting that the faction identity is even more apparent when doing Expedition. Like, currently I'm playing Noxus/SI/Bilgewater, and I'm just destroying stuff by very early turns. Throwing Whirling Deaths (battling unit strike battling unit) everywhere & putting down 2-drops with 5/2 stats & hitting the Nexus directly. 4 mana 5/5 also just eat all those Demacian units. My Nautilus is literally twiddling his thumbs every game, and I've traded him out for a Darius just now.

Of course, I got absolutely destroyed by 2 Neverglade Collectors that never ever enters combat, so my Whirling Deaths are essentially dead. My misplay though as I've used my 5/1 Challenger a little bit too early. Though to be fair, opp does have that "deal 1 make 1 spider" spider, so eh.

Though I find it curious that the devs saw fit to "nerf" Noxian Might bucket by removing the best aggro early attacker, namely the 1-drop 3/2. So there must be something that we are all missing here, and Noxus may actually secretly be the best faction in Expedition, since aggroing stuff down by turn 5 or so mean that most of the lategame bombs are essentially dead. Need more testing.

Still, I'm starting to think that while Demacia is probably the best "fair" region in Expedition, namely in purely outvaluing opponent & grinding them down, the best "unfair" region is almost certainly SI. Kalista + Rekindler combo is just pure evil, and very easy to assemble since Rekindler is not even an Epic. Plus all those Neverglade Collectors. Plus the Vengeances. The list goes on.

Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of


I try playing decks that aren't ez/karma combo but nothing feels as good as durdling around for 12 turns then deciding its safe enough to go off and 20-0 my opponent.

Am I the baddie

boredsatellite
Dec 7, 2013



Its okay im in the same boat

I tried playing Karm Lux but it aint the same

PJOmega
May 5, 2009


Boxman posted:

I try playing decks that aren't ez/karma combo but nothing feels as good as durdling around for 12 turns then deciding its safe enough to go off and 20-0 my opponent.

Am I the baddie

Nah, so long as you practice at the deck and aren't pulling to the timer every turn.

While working through platinum I timed myself with karma/lux for a bit and learned I play too quickly (leading to some obvious dumb mistakes) and omfg people are so slow.

At least in diamond it seems people tend to have an idea what they're doing.

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017


Wollawolla posted:

It just feels like bullshit because most regions have no real answers for it.

SI has nothing.
P&Z has Hextech Transmog if itís not on a champ.
Demacia has Purify or Detain.
Freljord has She Who Wanders on weak followers.
Noxus has nothing.
Bilgewater has Riptide if Naut is in play or Devourer.
Ionia has Will of Ionia, Minah, or Dragonís Rage.

And of any of those possible options, Purify and Will are the only ones that are both viable and easily slotted into decks with those regions.

changing unyielding spirit from burst to fast would greatly widen the number of responses to it. it would probably need to be kicked down to 7 mana to compensate, though

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


If Karma gets better next Tuesday I dont know if I'll be able to take it. If they have to nerf burn re-buff Hecarim or something, SI's early/mid game isn't oppressive anymore (although thinking about it I still cuss when I see Elise on 2... I guess they still have that one broken thing)

No Wave fucked around with this message at 23:51 on May 21, 2020

dudeness
Mar 5, 2010

Cat Army


Fallen Rib

Make Unyielding Spirit a plunder effect.

The other nerf I can think of for it would be to make it Followers only.

Munkaboo
Aug 4, 2002

If you know the words, you can join in too
He's bigger! faster! stronger too!
He's the newest member of the Jags O-Line crew!


gently caress the treasure spell that gives 5 free random cards. What a load of poo poo.

Lost two straight when I was significantly ahead because of it.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

When I logged in just now there was a button next to "quests" and "weekly vault" that said "loot" and had a notification symbol on it with a 1 in. When I clicked it, it made a noise and vanished and I've no idea what it was about

Pants Donkey
Nov 13, 2011

Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.


No Wave posted:

If Karma gets better next Tuesday I dont know if I'll be able to take it. If they have to nerf burn re-buff Hecarim or something, SI's early/mid game isn't oppressive anymore (although thinking about it I still cuss when I see Elise on 2... I guess they still have that one broken thing)
Iíve been playing that deck and have one loss to a demacia/ionia which I think is more my own inexperience with Ionia v Ionia which requires a bit more thought.

I donít even have three karmas or Lux!

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004



Pilchenstein posted:

When I logged in just now there was a button next to "quests" and "weekly vault" that said "loot" and had a notification symbol on it with a 1 in. When I clicked it, it made a noise and vanished and I've no idea what it was about

Maybe related to the Twitch promos? They call that "Twitch Loot". Speaking of, originally it only had the two wildcard packs in there, but it looks like now there's two additional ones "coming soon": https://twitch.amazon.com/prime/loot/lor

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

goferchan posted:

Maybe related to the Twitch promos? They call that "Twitch Loot". Speaking of, originally it only had the two wildcard packs in there, but it looks like now there's two additional ones "coming soon": https://twitch.amazon.com/prime/loot/lor
I'd already claimed both of those ages ago but who knows

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


I've been climbing with a old undying deck that's mostly just pre-expansion cards, today Mogwai made a video of a undying/bilge version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV0WTGNbKE4
I was theorycrafting a undying deck with bilge cards but was always too lazy and cheap to craft the cards instead of waiting for random unlocks, gave this a run and it does seem stronger then the demacia version with Tianna being outclassed by the cheaper rally effect and vulnerable spam working real well with undying to make up for missing single combat.

I am adding a caretaker or two into the deck and it slots in easily for those saplings to challenge or chump block.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

Got to say I'm absolutely loving the one-two combo of Pilfered Goods being insanely strong in expeditions and Pilfered Goods being available for seemingly every loving deck in expeditions

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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

I've been climbing with a old undying deck that's mostly just pre-expansion cards, today Mogwai made a video of a undying/bilge version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV0WTGNbKE4
I was theorycrafting a undying deck with bilge cards but was always too lazy and cheap to craft the cards instead of waiting for random unlocks, gave this a run and it does seem stronger then the demacia version with Tianna being outclassed by the cheaper rally effect and vulnerable spam working real well with undying to make up for missing single combat.

I am adding a caretaker or two into the deck and it slots in easily for those saplings to challenge or chump block.
I face these decks so much... they seem like they win for free if they get keeper+butcher on 2 into undying on 3.

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