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neaden posted:The element of the game that I find kind of frustrating from an MtG background is actually burst spells. Both the fact that they are unanswerable and that they let you do multiple things in a row without losing priority. I don't think they are too bad right now, but Riot will really have to be careful with them in the future. 
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May 29, 2020 14:28
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 23:46 |
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That's actually how unyielding kegs wins! You cast unyielding spirit on a powder keg, then stack until you have x6 kegs, then warning shot three times. EDIT: behold - the top 3 highest winrate faction combinations all have Freljord: https://lor.mobalytics.gg/stats/regions Early days but endure looks far from dead. No Wave fucked around with this message at 15:01 on May 29, 2020 |
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May 29, 2020 14:49
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I feel like even outside of expeditions Maokai/Naut is too good - the whole idea of "well Naut and Maokai are really strong but you have to sacrifice most of your deck to get that power" is kind of bullshit since tossing most of your deck is almost trivially easy and just makes your hand and board better because you can't toss champs and Naut puts back most of your sea monsters
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May 29, 2020 15:06
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Anyone else notice the Android client is super buggy when drafting? I only get two options and have to back out to select a third.
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May 29, 2020 15:45
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Munkaboo posted:Anyone else notice the Android client is super buggy when drafting? I only get two options and have to back out to select a third. Same here. Also, the draft UI is extremely laggy on Android.
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May 29, 2020 17:11
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Pilchenstein posted:I feel like even outside of expeditions Maokai/Naut is too good - the whole idea of "well Naut and Maokai are really strong but you have to sacrifice most of your deck to get that power" is kind of bullshit since tossing most of your deck is almost trivially easy and just makes your hand and board better because you can't toss champs and Naut puts back most of your sea monsters Yeah, tossing your deck is not really a penalty. Most of those cards you were never going to see anyway. And then Maokai turns off the danger when he levels. If he kept tossing your deck after he levelled then it’d be a disadvantage instead of powerful deck thinning and refilling.
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May 29, 2020 17:44
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Tossing is certainly costed as an upside not a downside, anyone calling it a disadvantage is crazy. Maokai is just one of a dozen ways to win the game after turn 8 without owning the board I can't really single them out for it.
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May 29, 2020 18:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4c5yBqJnBM New play modes over the next couple months and a new region Targon in August
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May 29, 2020 18:59
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I'm fairly sure all the new cards every two months are going to include power creep that make today's arguments about "game ending on turn 8 regardless of board state: good or bad?" look comical by comparison
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May 29, 2020 20:14
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No Wave posted:That's actually how unyielding kegs wins! You cast unyielding spirit on a powder keg, then stack until you have x6 kegs, then warning shot three times. huh, that's surprising. the sample size is still pretty small so i wouldn't put too much stock in that yet, but it does make me want to gently caress around with some sejuani decks
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May 29, 2020 22:35
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Finicums Wake posted:huh, that's surprising. the sample size is still pretty small so i wouldn't put too much stock in that yet, but it does make me want to gently caress around with some sejuani decks Speaking of, a pretty hilarious interaction that knocked me out of a seven win is flipped sejunai combined with mushrooms and teemo. When I drew a mushroom it would lock my entire board up because of the damage triggering sejunai's freeze effect
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May 29, 2020 22:50
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Finicums Wake posted:huh, that's surprising. the sample size is still pretty small so i wouldn't put too much stock in that yet, but it does make me want to gently caress around with some sejuani decks Sejuani is an extremely fun champ.
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May 29, 2020 22:55
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It seems post patch im having a lot of trouble winning with lux and karma but I bought em so I still want to get my money's worth out of them as it were. Everyone seems to have a different flavor of the deck, anyone recommend one they've had a high win rate with?
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May 30, 2020 00:03
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Finicums Wake posted:huh, that's surprising. the sample size is still pretty small so i wouldn't put too much stock in that yet, but it does make me want to gently caress around with some sejuani decks Sejuani Fury of the North Omen Hawk Ruthless Raider (situational) Elixir of Iron Sejuani really is that good and Fury is even better than it looks. Sejuani's a good addition to decks that would want to run 9-15 of those cards.
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May 30, 2020 00:20
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Sejuani's play effect is pretty much 1 for 1 card value so long as it's your attacking turn, if she levels up she straight up wins you the game.
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May 30, 2020 00:29
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Inspired by the Sejuani posts and the earlier posts complaining about Plunder I went and found these two decks. https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/code/CIBQCAIBCYBAEAICBEEQEBQFBMKBMHBBFUYTUAIBAIDCMAQBAIDCGAICAEEA https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/code/CIBQCAIBCYBAEAICA4FAEBQFBMKBMHBBFUYTUPQAAEAQEBQR Both do the same basic job. Keep hitting the nexus and drawing or plundering cards. Level Sejuani, and then with Miss Fortune on the field, you've soft locked the opponent on every attack, and with a hand full of Warning Shots, you can deny their attacks as well. You don't really care about Miss Fortune leveling, as far as I can tell. It feels mean and aggressive. It's pretty fun.
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May 30, 2020 02:51
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that second link is the deck i've been running. it performs pretty well, or at least i'm coming out at above a 50% win rate despite not knowing how to play it well
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May 30, 2020 03:31
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Their plan for expansions seems really ambitious. For those who didn't watch the video, the gameplan is basically two small expansions that add new cards (and new champs!) to every region at two month intervals (next one will be in July) and then a big expansion that adds a new region and even more cards at each six month mark. edit: Sorry, got the timing wrong. August will be the next "Big Expansion" with a new region etc, and then they'll move to the 2 month cycle goferchan fucked around with this message at 06:26 on May 30, 2020 |
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May 30, 2020 06:21
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Bandle City, please.
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May 30, 2020 06:33
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Control actually feels weak now (besides Heimer). Its amazing what a difference it is for Sejuani to be able to deal overwhelm damage vs mono Demacia's "I can't deal damage through blockers" thing they had going on for so long while beating other midrange.Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Sejuani's play effect is pretty much 1 for 1 card value so long as it's your attacking turn, if she levels up she straight up wins you the game.
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May 30, 2020 06:38
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Overwhelm is one of the strongest keywords in the game in my option and suddenly that 1 health chump blocker doesn't look so great.
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May 30, 2020 07:11
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So something I've seen people say in this thread is that burn was super overpowered because there's no efficient removal in this game and I'm curious what they mean by that, having just played what must've been my thousandth game against a deck that just calmly used pnz spells to remove every single unit I played before it could do anything, as their hand got bigger and bigger and mine dwindled I wasn't playing burn so it's not like I just threw a bunch of 1hp chumps at the board either.
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May 30, 2020 15:17
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PnZ is kind of an outlier because they have some of the best spells FOR removal outside of Shadow Isles with how much direct damage they have access to without any sort of caveats. Mystic Shot, Get Excited, Gotcha, etc The problem is that outside of Shadow Isles and PnZ your options for direct removal is very limited. Ionia can burn a Deny and bounce an offending unit back to hand with Will but given the pricetags on those vs how cheap most of burn is its pretty drat inefficient. Demacia has some decent removal but because Demacia is Demacia it's all wrapped up in having units (Detain, Single Combat). Noxus has some decent options too but theyre kind of wrapped up in dealing damage to your own units or having a condition to qualify (Fervor, Ravenous Flock). Freijord has... ???? Healing to take the edge off burn I guess? I havent played bilgewater enough to say what they have. tl;dr you're actually playing against the region that has most of the non-SI direct removal.
Monathin fucked around with this message at 15:41 on May 30, 2020 |
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May 30, 2020 15:35
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When I say no efficient removal, what I mean is that it normally costs more mana to kill a card than it costs to play the card. So in general, the aggressive player should have better tempo. In MTG, Doomblade and variants cost 2 mana to kill a creature. Vengeance costs 7. In MTG Ravenous Chupacabra costs 4 and it unconditionally kills a creature. Devourer of the Depths costs 6 and is conditional (it also leaves a bigger body). In MTG, Lightning Bolt does 3 to anything for 1. Mystic Shot does 2 to anything for 2. This was a problem when burn decks could play out highly efficient threats. Now that those are gone, games get slower and the inefficiency of removal is less of a problem because of the unique mana banking mechanic that makes expensive spells affordable.
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May 30, 2020 15:37
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yeah, like, Boomcrew Rookie was pretty much always a 1-for-2 trade of SOME form even in worst case scenarios and a lot of those scenarios required getting two swings at rookie which meant an easy 4 unblockable damage. 3 health instead of 4 makes that more managable even if it might still be a 1-for-2.
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May 30, 2020 15:52
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doingitwrong posted:When I say no efficient removal, what I mean is that it normally costs more mana to kill a card than it costs to play the card. I haven't played MTG since the 90s but I assume "kill a unit for 2 mana" and "deal 3 damage for 1 mana" both work in that game whereas they'd be comically overpowered here.
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May 30, 2020 16:06
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doingitwrong posted:When I say no efficient removal, what I mean is that it normally costs more mana to kill a card than it costs to play the card. So in general, the aggressive player should have better tempo. Spell mana screws up all concepts of spell costs vs magic.
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May 30, 2020 16:10
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It's not even just spell mana. Creature removal is both weaker and more common in this game than in MTG which should indicate how different the two games are. One of the reasons removal is conceptually so strong in this game is how attacking works - if your opponent doesn't open attack you can play things like icevale archer and arachnoid sentry so in a lot of matchups they have to open attack. And if they do open attack, you get a whole turn's worth of mana to spend on removing their units at fast speed while they haven't been able to spend any mana developing their board. And then they have to wait two turns before they actually get to attack again. (this is also why cards like Fury of the North and Transfusion end up so much stronger than they seem - you can utilize your mana on an open attack). Also I found this thread hilarious, someone who earned 99 rare chests in their weekly vault: https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/gtamij/guys_i_uhthink_i_broke_it_it_actually_has_a_max/ No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:46 on May 30, 2020 |
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May 30, 2020 18:41
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No Wave posted:It's not even just spell mana. Creature removal is both weaker and more common in this game than in MTG which should indicate how different the two games are. Wait MORE common? How?
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May 30, 2020 21:19
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I put together a depths deck after all the other nerfs. It feels pretty strong, no big weaknesses, just a solid deck that can put up a fight every stage of the game.
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May 30, 2020 22:16
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ShaneB posted:Spell mana screws up all concepts of spell costs vs magic. If the game doesn’t end on round 4 this is true. But in the early game when burn was dropping 1 mana 3/2s and your options were 2 mana deal 1 or 2 mana deal 2 (while they were playing 2 mana 2/3s etc) the efficiency mattered a lot. Now that games are going longer, the spell mana gets to shine and the balance of removal makes a lot more sense. More reasons why the comparison breaks down: Part of why Magic has so many “kill a unit” effects is that damage doesn’t persist (this is to save bookkeeping in the paper game). So all units have “regeneration” as a keyword, essentially where here and in Hearthstone damage persists, so your chump blockers can wear an enemy down and put them in removal range.
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May 31, 2020 00:51
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doingitwrong posted:If the game doesn’t end on round 4 this is true.
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May 31, 2020 02:38
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Well a somewhat common end to burn games was two attacks + burn afterward, so maybe not literally dying on 4 but the game being over at that point for literally any deck that doesn't have healing in hand by turn 5
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May 31, 2020 10:24
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I'm trying to picture how a game would play out that way and I'm not really seeing it unless the burn deck gets a perfect draw and the opponent absolutely bricks their hand and plays nothing in response. I'm sure we all remember one game where we took three legion rearguards to the face on turn two while holding a bunch of six cost cards but probably not two games where that happened
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May 31, 2020 17:03
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I've been thinking about pilfer a bit and I think it's probably fine as is but stolen cards should go face up. Let's the person who's been pilfered plan a lot better without reducing the power of the cards they stole. And the cost reduction from multiple pilfer 2/2's should make one the lowest cost they can be taken to so you can't just barf someone's deck out against them at 0-cost because you've got a bunch of those guys on the board.
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May 31, 2020 19:25
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Pilchenstein posted:I'm trying to picture how a game would play out that way and I'm not really seeing it unless the burn deck gets a perfect draw and the opponent absolutely bricks their hand and plays nothing in response. I'm sure we all remember one game where we took three legion rearguards to the face on turn two while holding a bunch of six cost cards but probably not two games where that happened Burn's game plan was always 2 attacks and burn face. Attack 3 was late game and if they had stabilized or gained life closing things out was likely out of reach.
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May 31, 2020 19:36
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Pilchenstein posted:I'm trying to picture how a game would play out that way and I'm not really seeing it unless the burn deck gets a perfect draw and the opponent absolutely bricks their hand and plays nothing in response. I'm sure we all remember one game where we took three legion rearguards to the face on turn two while holding a bunch of six cost cards but probably not two games where that happened I mean being cheeky about people thinking burn being too strong even after they nerfed burn saying it was too strong would seemingly be an embarrassing stance to take on a forum you could easily get called out on for being Real Wrong About It but here you are fighting the good fight
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May 31, 2020 19:40
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I mean being cheeky about people thinking burn being too strong even after they nerfed burn saying it was too strong would seemingly be an embarrassing stance to take on a forum you could easily get called out on for being Real Wrong About It but here you are fighting the good fight  mistaya posted:I've been thinking about pilfer a bit and I think it's probably fine as is but stolen cards should go face up. Let's the person who's been pilfered plan a lot better without reducing the power of the cards they stole. And the cost reduction from multiple pilfer 2/2's should make one the lowest cost they can be taken to so you can't just barf someone's deck out against them at 0-cost because you've got a bunch of those guys on the board. Edit: I actually haven't done many expeditions this week, are they still letting people build decks with 6+ Pilfered Goods in or has removing the increased chance to see Rising Tides cards fixed that? Pilchenstein fucked around with this message at 20:39 on May 31, 2020 |
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May 31, 2020 20:36
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I don't do expeditions but pilfer just works really weirdly in the mirror. I was playing a plunder deck for quest completion and ran into some dude playing a TF plunder deck and we ended up drawing a bunch of each other's pilfer cards and getting to play them for free and he ended up killing me with my own courier. I don't care about winning when I'm doing quest normals, but pilfering a pilfer card which you then get to play for free and drawing another pilfer card which you then get to play for free etc, I've seen it happen WAY too often in constructed, it's not a rare occurance. taking the plunder /pilfer 2x card to 3 mana would definitely help some though. At least glimpse requires a dead unit even if you get value out of it. Plunder just requires face damage which you want to be doing anyways.
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May 31, 2020 20:54
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 23:46 |
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Pilfered goods is imo a totally balanced card in constructed power-level wise, merchant is more arguable and is the power card of the two. When I played pilfer a lot last month PG without BMM more or less just got me two random cards which was nice in matches that went to fatigue, but black market merchant totally took games over against all kinds of decks. Merchant also puts the opponent in a very annoying position where they can't ever really justify committing resources to kill the 2/2 but they still get punished very often for ignoring it. (this is aside from any discussion about the mechanic's interaction with Avarosan Outriders, because lol ofc something will have to end up changing) No Wave fucked around with this message at 21:16 on May 31, 2020 |
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May 31, 2020 21:06
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