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hakimashou
Jul 15, 2002
Upset Trowel
Its hosed up they are just constantly killing millions of people in star trek

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Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe
I always wondered how come they didn't just keep a backup copy of the command staff in the transport buffer at all times.

Oh, picard got trapped in a cave? No big deal, just materialize the backup copy out of the transport buffer and onto the bridge

Make it so, transporter chief o'brien

Fallen Hamprince
Nov 12, 2016

space god knows to put your soul back in the body the transporter creates rather then sending you to space heaven/hell (whichever is more appropriate in your case)

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Poopernickel posted:

I always wondered how come they didn't just keep a backup copy of the command staff in the transport buffer at all times.


Takes a poo poo ton of power.

Dr. Fraiser Chain
May 18, 2004

Redlining my shit posting machine


Beam me up Scotty, and while you are at it give me a couple extra inches

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!
i don't recall Jason Statham copying anyone in any of the transporter movies OP

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

hakimashou posted:

Its hosed up they are just constantly killing millions of people in star trek

yeah why don't they take the stairs

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

hakimashou posted:

Its hosed up they are just constantly killing millions of people in star trek

souls arenít real OP

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe

CainFortea posted:

Takes a poo poo ton of power.

Scotty kept himself in the transport buffer on his jank-rear end ship for like 50 years so it's 100% doable

"Let the borg have him, we've got a backup copy"

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Poopernickel posted:

Scotty kept himself in the transport buffer on his jank-rear end ship for like 50 years so it's 100% doable

"Let the borg have him, we've got a backup copy"

Scotty and the pilot of the ship he was on went into the buffer, only scotty came out.

There have been other episodes where they had to keep people in the buffer for a few hours and the signal was degrading.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011
the smartest star trek character was that lady who was the enterprise's doctor for season 2 of tng because she didn't trust the teleporter and always took shuttles instead

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008
This is a real important topic because I 100% agree this is true and I've also had nerds tell me with total conviction that it absolutely doesn't matter because from the universe's perspective I never died and also harry kim said he felt like he had a consciousness in the transporter or some poo poo one time.

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe
do you guys remember the one where broccoli reached out of the transporter stream and grabbed onto some squiggly aliens?

like how does that even work

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe

vyelkin posted:

the smartest star trek character was that lady who was the enterprise's doctor for season 2 of tng because she didn't trust the teleporter and always took shuttles instead

she was in TOS also, joining the ranks of scotty, bones, and majel barrett

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
you are just an incredibly complex chemical computer. if we accept the transporter is able to put individual atoms back where they belong, even mid reaction, then "you" are getting transported each time

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Poopernickel posted:

she was in TOS also, joining the ranks of scotty, bones, and majel barrett



wait polaski was in tos???

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe

Raskolnikov38 posted:

you are just an incredibly complex chemical computer.

More like a meat android

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe

Raskolnikov38 posted:

wait polaski was in tos???

a couple of times as different characters, yeah

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Poopernickel posted:

a couple of times as different characters, yeah

oh i thought it was going to be the same character and i somehow missed that for 20 years of watching trek

Angepain
Jul 13, 2012

what keeps happening to my clothes
on the one hand, sweet embrace of death, so that's a plus

on the other, some other poor innocent soul has to live the rest of my lovely life, questionable morally to put someone through that

Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Pillbug
Correct OP but in Star Trek land they have souls, aka "neural engrams", which solves the problem and allow the transporter to just be a production budget friendly way of putting characters elsewhere without having to show a shuttle launching each time.


Except for the episodes where they gently caress up and make an episode about the plot convenience device, like that time Riker got duplicated, which shows that it is a hosed up device indeed.

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012



Angepain posted:

on the one hand, sweet embrace of death, so that's a plus

on the other, some other poor innocent soul has to live the rest of my lovely life, questionable morally to put someone through that

Consider also that a transporter accident could cause someone to become combined with you. A fate worse than death.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

reignofevil posted:

This is a real important topic because I 100% agree this is true and I've also had nerds tell me with total conviction that it absolutely doesn't matter because from the universe's perspective I never died and also harry kim said he felt like he had a consciousness in the transporter or some poo poo one time.

yeah ive had actual irl conversations with people about this before and someone once tried to tell me it didn't matter because to everyone else i would still be me and therefore i still exist as me and im like that's not the point

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008
This entire moral headache goes away if you just do away with the disintegration part of using the transporter and your society commits to having an army of clones.

A Gnarlacious Bro
Apr 25, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
There is no self, continuity of being is an illusion IMO

Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Pillbug

vyelkin posted:

yeah ive had actual irl conversations with people about this before and someone once tried to tell me it didn't matter because to everyone else i would still be me and therefore i still exist as me and im like that's not the point

People who say this tend to adhere to the incorrect idea that consciousness is an illusion and that "they" do not really exist, which is quite Buddhist in a grossly oversimplified way.

Riker 2 is anatta.

hakimashou
Jul 15, 2002
Upset Trowel

Raskolnikov38 posted:

you are just an incredibly complex chemical computer. if we accept the transporter is able to put individual atoms back where they belong, even mid reaction, then "you" are getting transported each time

Individual atoms don't have identity, there's no such thing as the 'same' atoms.

Its like if a madman killed you with two big knives and chopped you up a bunch, but then a doctor on another planet went to the meat market and bought enough meat to make a copy of you out of meat somehow. You didnt get teleported to the other planet, the guy there just made a copy of you after you died.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

hakimashou posted:

Individual atoms don't have identity, there's no such thing as the 'same' atoms.

Its like if a madman killed you with two big knives and chopped you up a bunch, but then a doctor on another planet went to the meat market and bought enough meat to make a copy of you out of meat somehow. You didnt get teleported to the other planet, the guy there just made a copy of you after you died.

the star trek transporter specifically sends you back in a matter stream so that its whatever atoms in whatever space you occupied being moved to a different space

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008
The only transporter I would accept would be Jesus Christ enveloping me in a miracle envelope, licking a massive astral stamp and affixing it to my forehead and then direct mailing me straight to the lazarrian topless beach world

Dr. Fraiser Chain
May 18, 2004

Redlining my shit posting machine


Raskolnikov38 posted:

the star trek transporter specifically sends you back in a matter stream so that its whatever atoms in whatever space you occupied being moved to a different space

I'm not sure why the specific atoms are important. If you were eaten by some giant otherworldly being, then reconstituted from it's excrement from the exact atoms going in, you would undergo a very similar process to the Star Trek teleporter. Yet in this case it is clear you died, and a new you reconstructed. It's a tough philosophical question.

hakimashou
Jul 15, 2002
Upset Trowel
Imo they must have either tricked everyone by killing them with a transporter already or else all accept Parfitian ideas about identity for the transporter to be as popular as it is.

Tricking people is easy, like at school every kid gets transported then they ask "so did you die" and they are like "no."

Angepain
Jul 13, 2012

what keeps happening to my clothes
one day i think in my teens i just decided the solution to consciousness was that i died pretty much every moment or two and every new thought was just a new spark of consciousness thinking it had been there for sixteen years because of all these memories lying around

i didn't actually interrogate this thought in any particular analytical way i just decided it was true and then went about my business trying not to think about it any more and just pretending i was a continuous being because that felt better

i assume this is how all reasonable and rigorous philosophy gets done

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


vyelkin posted:

yeah ive had actual irl conversations with people about this before and someone once tried to tell me it didn't matter because to everyone else i would still be me and therefore i still exist as me and im like that's not the point

Nah, you'd be yourself to yourself too so it's all good.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
you could transporter clone enough people to keep your wife sexually satisfied

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
i mean, none of them are of you

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



"It's longer than you think, Dad! Longer than you think!"

dudeness
Mar 5, 2010

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
Fallen Rib
OP is right, it's just like when you go under for surgery, you die and get replaced.

Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Pillbug
Actually what happens during general anesthesia is that it paralyzes you and prevents you from forming memories but you are actually fully conscious the whole time.

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Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

by Azathoth
The transporter problem is only a problem if you think death isn't desirable. Which. :lmao:

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