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The Dune movie is fine, just not outstanding because it has so many little things wrong with it. But then it has GOAT-level poo poo like this to so it evens out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWq15lDh8yM <3 I love how Kenneth McMillan is totally channeling Donald Pleasance slightly here.
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Oct 22, 2020 02:02
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The Lynch Dune movie is an utter failure because the studio chickened out on showing Sting's junk.
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Oct 22, 2020 02:03
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Neo Rasa posted:The Dune movie is fine, just not outstanding because it has so many little things wrong with it. But then it has GOAT-level poo poo like this to so it evens out: A violent sexual assault while his family watches with glee as the victim bleeds out is the GOAT? And it's completely invented for the movie; this didn't happen in the book. Lynch turned the scheming careful manipulator into a braying psychopath.
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Oct 23, 2020 11:46
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C-Euro posted:Dune is extremely good and I recommend it every time I see someone on social media asking what they should read next. I've never seen the Lynch movie but the SyFy miniseries is on YouTube if you a little digging. God Emperor is the best.
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Oct 24, 2020 00:07
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I re-read Dune probably once every 3 years, and every time I forget that easily the first third of the book is literally characters sitting around discussing economics, spy-craft, and sabotage while all of those things happen off screen and yet every line of it is important. There is a multi-page section where Jessica analyzes a guild member's accent, determines he is from Giedi Prime, and thus makes about 17 different political conclusions based only on this information. All of the current movies (and no doubt the new one) ignore this entire section and jump right into the slaughter of the family and Paul getting to the Fremen, and it really loses what makes the book so loving bonkers. Dune is almost like two novels jammed together. That first third that is incredibly dense politics and then the back third that is basically easily filmable, but still weird as gently caress.
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Oct 24, 2020 08:24
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PeterWeller posted:God Emperor is the best. Spoken like someone who's never read Heretics
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Oct 24, 2020 09:57
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Nah, Heretics is the low point of Frank's novels. Its one redeeming quality is chairdogs.
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Oct 24, 2020 16:52
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I got as far as some lady says breathily without moving, or indeed opening, her mouth: "HE KNOWS!" And threw the VHS in the bin. You guys are telling me this movie was legit?
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Oct 25, 2020 08:36
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Fuschia tude posted:A violent sexual assault while his family watches with glee as the victim bleeds out is the GOAT? And it's completely invented for the movie; this didn't happen in the book. Lynch turned the scheming careful manipulator into a braying psychopath.
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Oct 26, 2020 09:14
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Collateral posted:I got as far as some lady says breathily without moving, or indeed opening, her mouth: "HE KNOWS!" Is being weirded out by 'inner voice' in films an American thing? I see lots of people on SA complain about the voice over stuff and I don't get it. Is it just because it's done poorly?
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Oct 31, 2020 14:23
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Regarde Aduck posted:Is being weirded out by 'inner voice' in films an American thing? I see lots of people on SA complain about the voice over stuff and I don't get it. Is it just because it's done poorly? Not sure if it was an explicitly American thing but I feel like voiceover was common in the lower-tier of TV production when the writers couldn't introduce exposition organically in the 1980s/90s (for example: Wonder Years) and I still react to it as being not a good sign. E: Like, Wonder Years wasn't even an especially bad show, it's the living embodiment of  IMO, but it leaned heavily on the "Tell" rather than the "Show"?
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Nov 2, 2020 15:03
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Nowadays they just have characters overexplain everything that happens, while also cutting anything that gives context or alludes to events that aren't happening right now because they don't want to enrage an audience they presume is looking at their phones.
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Nov 3, 2020 12:44
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oh hey i bet this movie is just like star wars *watches three and a half hour of political dialogue and vhs-quality special effects*
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Nov 25, 2020 10:10
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LA Review of Books just put up a fun Dune article, mostly concerned with Herbert's politics: https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/heresies-of-dune/
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Nov 25, 2020 13:42
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Yeah that article was really good and illuminating. Herbert lived a much different life and had very different political views than what I envisioned-- granted I never read much than 3/4 of the first book and wiki summaries for the rest. He really hated liberals, "big government," and apparently wrote the last few books getting hounded by the IRS. I really wonder how bad the brain worms would have been had he stayed alive to see the Murdoch machine with full steam.
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Dec 8, 2020 03:26
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I'm honestly not surprised, because nothing about Dune speaks of a fondness for democracy or trust in society. People should just choose to be tough and pull themselves up by their bootstraps onto a giant worm and take a swig of their own piss instead of being soft by expecting some kind of infrastructure to protect them from threats or provide water to homes.
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Dec 8, 2020 03:56
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm honestly not surprised, because nothing about Dune speaks of a fondness for democracy or trust in society. People should just choose to be tough and pull themselves up by their bootstraps onto a giant worm and take a swig of their own piss instead of being soft by expecting some kind of infrastructure to protect them from threats or provide water to homes. Or..... the original book could be construed as "look what happens when huge, dark, shadowy, influential groups are allowed to run rampant through society, instead of letting people run their own lives. Universal jihad."
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Dec 8, 2020 16:24
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm honestly not surprised, because nothing about Dune speaks of a fondness for democracy or trust in society. People should just choose to be tough and pull themselves up by their bootstraps onto a giant worm and take a swig of their own piss instead of being soft by expecting some kind of infrastructure to protect them from threats or provide water to homes. Brian writes about how he avoided the hippie subculture when he was in college because they reminded him so much of his dad. I don't think the Frank Herbert = Ayn Rand take is all that accurate.
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Dec 11, 2020 13:45
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Fuschia tude posted:Brian writes about how he avoided the hippie subculture when he was in college because they reminded him so much of his dad. I don't think the Frank Herbert = Ayn Rand take is all that accurate. People today forget that Nixon and Watergate broke a lot of people's minds in a way that's only comparable to how 9/11 did. There were a lot of what I'd call maybe "Right Tendency Hippies" who, politically speaking, are at variance with what people think of as hippieish these days. These people often ended up in the foothills (what became wine country or whatever it's called now) growing weede, I'm told.
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Dec 11, 2020 13:56
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm honestly not surprised, because nothing about Dune speaks of a fondness for democracy or trust in society. People should just choose to be tough and pull themselves up by their bootstraps onto a giant worm and take a swig of their own piss instead of being soft by expecting some kind of infrastructure to protect them from threats or provide water to homes. Kind of a whole point is that the Fremen literally only survive because they have close-knit societal units, infrastructure and technology, and ways of communicating and common cultural ground, and make great sacrifices to common resources they hope will one day make their planet more liveable. Dune is honestly pretty unique in sci-fi for having such a focus on culture, material conditions, and statecraft, not just a children's fantasy view of the universe.
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Dec 11, 2020 14:32
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Dune, at least the original, is a political thriller, the sci-fi is only set dressing.
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Dec 11, 2020 22:27
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Kind of a whole point is that the Fremen literally only survive because they have close-knit societal units, infrastructure and technology, and ways of communicating and common cultural ground, and make great sacrifices to common resources they hope will one day make their planet more liveable. also that they try to minimize their impact on the environment and iirc aren't concerned with spice's value as a commodity. One of the scenes that I remember from the book (though it's been a while) is when the worm eats the spice harvester and i think some people working on it and the reaction from the atreides people is dismay at the loss of cargo. Again, it's been a while so i might be remembering it differently
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Dec 13, 2020 03:31
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Nah, in that scene, the Fremen leader Liet Kynes is impressed by Duke Leto's concern for the men, not the material. The Fremen care about Spice as a commodity. They use it to pay off the Guild to keep quiet about the patches of irrigated land they have established out in the deep desert. They also use it to make a lot of everyday goods like paper.
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Dec 13, 2020 04:04
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gently caress i failed, i'm never gonna get to ride the worm now
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Dec 13, 2020 04:07
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The Fremen are aware of spice's value, very much so, they just aren't as fussed with it day to day given they live in the only place it's produced and so have access to the greatest quantities of anyone in the galaxy, making everything from paper to beer with the stuff. I still reckon the Spice is probably one of the few things that makes Fremen life tolerable. It is mentioned later that the Fremen are reflexively protective of materiel and equipment, given how hard it is to replace, and Paul has to remind them that they're close enough to victory that they'll soon have no shortage of that.
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Dec 13, 2020 05:09
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40k is probably the best Dune adaptation, only with blackjack, and Orks
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Dec 17, 2020 23:33
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Fluoride Jones posted:also that they try to minimize their impact on the environment
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Dec 18, 2020 03:31
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Foxfire_ posted:The Fremen end goal is destroying the entire existing ecosystem and replacing it with a lush water-filled one The Fremen are good ecological stewards and the old ecosystem had it coming. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Dec 18, 2020 |
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Dec 18, 2020 05:30
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Arnold Schwarzenegger x Carl Weathers handshake meme but the arms are labeled "Fremen" and "Anakin" and the handshake is labeled "gently caress Sand."
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Dec 18, 2020 05:33
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The Mandalorian basically confirmed that the Tusken Raiders/Sand People are pretty much Fremen. Mando gets along well with them.
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Dec 18, 2020 08:24
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herbert is weird because he was clearly on the road to chudtown and yet all the fremen ecological stuff is based on him being really impressed by a particular ecologists work
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Dec 18, 2020 11:24
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Hodgepodge posted:herbert is weird because he was clearly on the road to chudtown and yet all the fremen ecological stuff is based on him being really impressed by a particular ecologists work Before the advent of Fox news and the modern culture wars and the like, conservative conservationism wasn't an oxymoron. There were plenty of sorta weird right-wing libertarian hippies knocking about
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Dec 18, 2020 12:15
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IIRC the GOP had a conservationist streak due to Teddy Roosevelt being really big into it that didn't get demolished until Reagan took power
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Dec 18, 2020 13:51
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Barry Foster posted:Before the advent of Fox news and the modern culture wars and the like, conservative conservationism wasn't an oxymoron. There were plenty of sorta weird right-wing libertarian hippies knocking about I mean, there are still ecofash today. Lots of hippie conferences and meetups that are currently active have participants that are just out and out "only right-wing politics can actually defend the natural world." They tend to be weird so discourse online about them tends to be even weirder but it's definitely still a thing, even if its very small. I don't know if Herbert would fit in with them, though maybe he'd just...adjust a little to conform. I do wonder if having authentically bonkers politics is an asset to making highly memorable world building, because Tolkien is the other "big worldbuilding guy from the midcentury" and his politics are also pretty wild.
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Dec 18, 2020 17:54
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Lynch's Dune movie is a more watchable Kubrick's 2001 movie.
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Dec 19, 2020 01:04
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Schwarzwald posted:Arnold Schwarzenegger x Carl Weathers handshake meme but the arms are labeled "Fremen" and "Anakin" and the handshake is labeled "gently caress Sand.  Ghost Leviathan posted:The Mandalorian basically confirmed that the Tusken Raiders/Sand People are pretty much Fremen. Mando gets along well with them.
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Dec 19, 2020 18:45
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It's more that the Tusken culture seems to share a few values with the Mandalorian's, including never removing their helmets and what looks like heavy focus on nonverbal communication, as well as shared pragmatic attitudes.
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Dec 20, 2020 13:31
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's more that the Tusken culture seems to share a few values with the Mandalorian's, including never removing their helmets and what looks like heavy focus on nonverbal communication, as well as shared pragmatic attitudes. vader not taking his helmet off was a low-key penance for the tusken massacre. only when he is redeemed is he allowed to remove the helmet. or maybe in that weird sphere he hung out in, idk
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Dec 21, 2020 11:07
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Hodgepodge posted:vader not taking his helmet off was a low-key penance for the tusken massacre. only when he is redeemed is he allowed to remove the helmet. or maybe in that weird sphere he hung out in, idk Dare you enter... THE ATONEMENT SPHERE?!
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Dec 21, 2020 14:20
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Tulip posted:I do wonder if having authentically bonkers politics is an asset to making highly memorable world building, because Tolkien is the other "big worldbuilding guy from the midcentury" and his politics are also pretty wild. How so?
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Dec 21, 2020 17:50
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