|
https://twitter.com/kurtruslfanclub/status/1222717482323963904 It's the wack 60s novel that Lucas and everybody else ripped off wholesale but somehow made more racist and less horny it's got spacemen with swords and magical bloodlines of wizards and all that crap the kids like, but also everyone's hosed up on spice and computers are illegal Even got a horrible expanded universe for you to thoroughly regret reading in your desperation for more content in conclusion, Dune is a land of contrasts
|
#
¿
Feb 1, 2020 14:35
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Jan 22, 2026 22:50 |
|
|
Darkman Fanpage posted:there are lasers in dune. it's just that there are also personal shield generators everybody wears and if a laser hits one of those it would cause a nuclear explosion. I said less lasers, not no lasers
|
|
#
¿
Feb 2, 2020 05:21
|
|
|
Nowadays they just have characters overexplain everything that happens, while also cutting anything that gives context or alludes to events that aren't happening right now because they don't want to enrage an audience they presume is looking at their phones.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2020 12:44
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:I'm honestly not surprised, because nothing about Dune speaks of a fondness for democracy or trust in society. People should just choose to be tough and pull themselves up by their bootstraps onto a giant worm and take a swig of their own piss instead of being soft by expecting some kind of infrastructure to protect them from threats or provide water to homes. Kind of a whole point is that the Fremen literally only survive because they have close-knit societal units, infrastructure and technology, and ways of communicating and common cultural ground, and make great sacrifices to common resources they hope will one day make their planet more liveable. Dune is honestly pretty unique in sci-fi for having such a focus on culture, material conditions, and statecraft, not just a children's fantasy view of the universe.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2020 14:32
|
|
|
The Fremen are aware of spice's value, very much so, they just aren't as fussed with it day to day given they live in the only place it's produced and so have access to the greatest quantities of anyone in the galaxy, making everything from paper to beer with the stuff. I still reckon the Spice is probably one of the few things that makes Fremen life tolerable. It is mentioned later that the Fremen are reflexively protective of materiel and equipment, given how hard it is to replace, and Paul has to remind them that they're close enough to victory that they'll soon have no shortage of that.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 13, 2020 05:09
|
|
|
The Mandalorian basically confirmed that the Tusken Raiders/Sand People are pretty much Fremen. Mando gets along well with them.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 18, 2020 08:24
|
|
|
It's more that the Tusken culture seems to share a few values with the Mandalorian's, including never removing their helmets and what looks like heavy focus on nonverbal communication, as well as shared pragmatic attitudes.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 20, 2020 13:31
|
|
|
feedmegin posted:How so? 'Anarcho-monarchism' has been a description I've seen.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 22, 2020 10:37
|
|
|
Like one of the earliest scenes on Arrakis is them explaining to the new palace staff about the head of the bull that killed Leto's dad.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2021 09:40
|
|
|
IIRC, Dune is the traditional name that the Fremen prefer, while Arrakis is the Imperial one.ptkfvk posted:i thought mamoa looked terrible. i havent seen him in anything in a while and im surprised how chubby he looked. maybe oscar issac looking like a statue was just making everyone look bad. Mamoa is pretty much spot on casting, it's not so clear in the original book but Duncan Idaho is absolutely supposed to be a Space Conan type who has the ill fortune to not be in the kind of story where he'd be the protagonist. Cranappleberry posted:I thought the movie was good but didn't give enough background on certain lore aspects like the spacing guild/navigators or that AI was banned because it almost ended humanity so there are "human computers" and etc. They can always bring that poo poo in the sequels once everyone is already invested. Also, the prequels do not exist.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 6, 2021 09:43
|
|
|
There was an article also going into how Dune is heavily inspired by a nonfiction book about conflict in the Caucasus between local tribal societies and Tsarist Russia.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2021 09:41
|
|
|
Rockstar Massacre posted:Even now if you dare to hang out at Burning Man or any other hippie joint you'll still be surrounded by people who are fundamentally selfish and narcissistic in their politics, they just have a different coat of paint on it then traditional libertarian types. Didn't Burning Man get completely overrun by techbros?
|
|
#
¿
May 12, 2022 10:02
|
|
|
|
|
#
¿
Dec 3, 2022 09:49
|
|
|
tadashi posted:I just remembed there is at least another Dune movie coming out As above, techbros. It's just a matter of waiting til the masks fall off.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 1, 2023 07:40
|
|
|
Mixed with Space Lawrence of Arabia
|
|
#
¿
Oct 20, 2023 06:10
|
|
|
Messiah is pretty much more of a coda than a sequel. Doesn't help that the og book is an epic in itself that following books can't really match, with its scripture-like framing.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 19, 2024 13:51
|
|
|
Sir DonkeyPunch posted:Just got back from Dune 2 Chicks At The Same Time I feel if they're gonna include that bit it's gonna be in Messiah.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 1, 2024 13:43
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Paul Atredies, wife guy. I thought he was more of a knife guy
|
|
#
¿
Mar 3, 2024 07:23
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:He's pretty happy for a guy with 2 knives and 2 wives. Heh, WOULD explain a lot, even given the prescient are invisible to one another it's possible to get glimpses, especially if they're vague enough to make a prophecy. Self-fulfilling and all that. Speleothing posted:It'll help them in a general sense. Yeah, the fun thing is that once you've gotten on top of a social pyramid you have a lot of options, and the whole deal with the BG is extremely long-term infiltration of every level of galactic society. Like, the Emperor himself is practically their puppet. (Ironically it's the Harkonnens who they seem to struggle the most to control, given their massive misogynistic streak, but they're also base enough that the BG feel confident in being able to do so anyway) And yeah, Arrakis being both extremely harsh and extremely important, it makes sense that they would take the risk of seeding a prophecy that would, well, potentially lead to poo poo like in the book. Though of course, that level of things ended up still being rather out of hand. The whole thing with the BG is that they think extremely long term, and preferring to be adjacent to power rather than holding it, along with their strong focus on social infiltration and manipulation, openly means they can slip pretty freely between pretty much any aspect of society and culture, and effectively act as an amazingly effective spy network. (And maintain enough internal cohesion that it takes some serious time and events to have any kind of schism, possibly due to what's implied to be a vaguely democratic if strongly seniority-based internal structure, and in general treating one another as fellow women of power. Almost like Pratchett's witches, ha)
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2024 13:35
|
|
|
MadDogMike posted:I still feel like the Bene Gesserit had no actual idea what they would do with a KH. A KH is a great tool for making changes, but by the time one popped up the Sisters were pretty much committed to the status quo. Also it’s tremendously arrogant to try to create someone to do something you’ve never done before and be oh so confident you could control them; I have a feeling even if Jessica had cooperated the resulting Feyd-sired KH would have not been the obedient servant the Bene Gesserit wanted. Yeah, there's a big theme about the BG really seeming like any other galactic institution in that they exist basically to perpetuate their existence and consolidate their own power without a real vision, and it says a lot how everything goes off the rails just because one concubine actually likes the guy that she's assigned to. The KH is a superweapon, and you can't have one of those without shaking up the status quo simply because of its existence.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2024 07:09
|
|
|
CatHorse posted:There already was a Dune musical https://www.udio.com/songs/eY7xtug1dV6hbfCDhyHJua This is why we need the Butlerian Jihad.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2024 09:13
|
|
|
Also that the Fremen are great fighters not just out of individual skill and practice but because generations of guerrilla warfare that's recently ramped up hard from a decadent well armed foe has forced them to adapt, to use every advantage available to them and operate tactically and strategically. The Sardaukar are from an environment specifically cultivated to grow martial skill, at least nominally, but they still can't stand up to the Fremen home turf advantage. And the Atreides troops are famed because they're actually trained, equipped and given reasons to be loyal and disciplined because their feudal lords actually give some consideration to their needs.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 24, 2024 17:49
|
|
|
The BG were more or less showing off by doing eugenics and dynastic politics at the same time, and making everything so much harder for themselves in the process. Leto II I think isn't just allowing them to keep doing their thing because they can't meaningfully threaten him, but because he clearly has respect for people actually trying to innovate and evolve even if they're stumbling at it, and almost openly encourages it through pressure; and specifically him having a monopoly on power that gives the BG few to no ins to exploit with their usual deal of subverting the ruling class, they have to actually think about what they're doing. See also his approach to the Ixians and Tleilaxu, where he knows they're up to all kinds of poo poo and thinks that's a good start.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 26, 2024 16:48
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:Prescience itself is the threat, that's just one form it takes. Inevitably someone weaponizes it and that's the end of the line. Yeah, as much as people even more the failson turned the Jihad into the plot of Terminator, it seems pretty fitting that the ultimate fear is prescience literally weaponised in that it's an ability given to devices that exist for no other reason than to be weapons. 'Machine thinking' may be a threat in that it means you have something smart enough to obey orders but not able to question them. Heh, had some sci-fi posit that sentience is a safety feature, in that it gives a robot the ability to question what it's doing and why.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 1, 2024 04:07
|
|
|
pygmy tyrant posted:I just finished watching the Dune part 2 and it's been like a decade since I read the book but spending less than a second on the reverend mother getting shut down felt like an incredibly wasted scene. Maybe it wouldn't have made much sense without Alia's side of the dialogue but drat, we're talking about one of the most powerful people in the galaxy from an order of witches obsessed with control coming face to face with their ultimate tool for maintaining that control only to find it's absolutely not going to listen to her and is substantially more magic than she is. That deserves a little more horror at what ye hath wrought than a gasp and muttering abomination. Though it kinda makes it funny and fitting that she basically huffs and stamps her feet that their shiny new toy isn't all they wanted. Defiance Industries posted:That's basically what Leto II said. He said that the target of the Jihad was to eliminate "machine-thinking," the ability to do more and more without having to think about the action. And he has his full ancestral memories unlocked so he probably knows what he's talking about. Especially ironic given the implication that A: the Jihad failed pretty badly given human society just went on to turn humans into the closest thing to robots as they could, and 2: in that case a sentient robot uprising makes even less sense given the problem wasn't robots rebelling, it was robots doing exactly what they're told. One comic had a quote that stuck with me, that 'sentience is a safety feature'; a paperclip maximiser is a lot less of a problem if a robot can get bored and decide to do something else, and can understand what the implicit scope and scale of its orders are.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 13, 2024 14:32
|
|
|
The existential horror of the concept is also a major theme, given Paul realising he's already going to launch a genocidal crusade on the galaxy even if he drops dead now, and Leto making a point of breeding immunity to prescience into humanity before someone uses it to wipe them out. Rather a theme is that everyone is playing with powers they can't really control and that victory can be as devastating as defeat.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2025 05:54
|
|
|
Given that super-math powers are very much a thing in-setting and a seperate skillset from recognised prescience, Mentats and all, I think there's deliberately meant to be some fuzzy ground. Especially given it's not hard to picture how being able to calculate odds and outcomes would complement visions of the future nicely; that you get glimpses of what could be and can then figure out the odds of that happening, and so on. Like I said, fitting that a big theme is people are trying to take advantage of forces they don't really understand anywhere near as much as they think they do and can't really control the consequences of.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 18, 2025 13:14
|
|
|
I think there's also kind of a theme that if you put so much effort to seeding the idea of a messianic prophecy and then taking advantage of it by acting out the steps, then the idea of the prophecy being 'real' or 'fake' is kinda academic.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2025 02:15
|
|
|
The real life metaphor is how Iran has ballistic missiles aimed at every oil well in the Middle East. The USA might win the invasion they've been slavering for since the 70s but they won't survive gas being eighty bucks a gallon. Also don't forget he's beaten the rival claimant in honourable combat and taken the Emperor's only daughter as his wife. He has the legitimacy, the threat of destroying the Spice is his material leverage.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2025 09:22
|
|
|
Lord of the Rings is actually closer to a post-apocalyptic society if anything, that's actively regressed in a lot of ways, and remember that humans aren't the only civilisation of note around. The dwarves have either retreated underground or had their poo poo hosed up by dragons a bunch of times, the elves are basically all veterans of horrific wars that are mentioned to have used advanced magitech they now only have fragments of, and oddly enough the Orcs are often shown to be the most technologically advanced society around, having advanced siegecraft, gunpowder bombs and flat out industrialisation, albeit under the supervision of fallen angels and in a pretty crude slash-and-burn strip-mining fashion. And even Gondor was founded by refugees from not-Atlantis. Given how it's implied to be based on the late stage Eastern Roman Empire, complete with having lost touch with its counterpart, I think that's meant to be a reference to the Roman mythology of being descended from survivors of Troy. There's an easy to miss bit mentioning that the destruction of the One Ring was actually a bittersweet development for the elves, given the elven rings were maintaining the magical nature of the remaining elves, and their power was connected to the One Ring and begins to fade without it. The overall picture, it actually makes sense that you have stagnation and decay as outright magic, with its tangible effects that people came to rely on, is fading from the world, and societies are having to adjust to life without it. Jewmanji posted:That’s the whole point of Dune. Herbert constantly talks about the “stagnation” that emerged out of the Butlerian Jihad. There were enforceable treaties and norms against the use of certain technologies. And it’s heavily implied that at various points Ix and the Tleilaxu are both subverting those imperial laws. I do wonder if the relative stagnation and levels of technology are also kinda the point there; it would make sense that, especially with the Butlerian Jihad, technological development has reached a bit of a point of diminishing returns, especially since the great powers have little incentive to seek further edges when there's already strict laws and conventions about how they can make war on each other. (While the Ixians and Tleilaxu are exceptions, but they still gotta keep it under wraps) ...which it also seems implied the Great Houses are pretty okay with since it means they tend to live cushy lives by default just having to dodge the occasional assassin. And it explains a lot how the Atreides are considered a threat because their troops are actually trained and loyal. Basically think the more colourful kinds of Third World dictators and a lot about feudal societies makes sense.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2025 00:43
|
|
|
josh04 posted:Every time I read the thread title I start mentally rotating a Lady Jessica Please stop, she's getting dizzy
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2025 11:42
|
|
|
George posted:No, the Tleilaxu are doing extreme biology stuff. It's the Ixians that push the boundaries of the jihad. Both engage in their own dehumanizations though. I think it's more a case where they're doing enough hosed up poo poo that the empire would probably find something as an excuse to wreck their poo poo if it got exposed/went too far. Though kinda funny that the Atreides line seems more bemused and impressed by their shenanigans. Makes sense with their views: they present innovation, evolution and change, as well as the Ixians, and Leto II downright down low encourages that to give humanity more options when they break out of their rut.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 30, 2025 03:58
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Although it's unclear why in Dune, Arrakis has been the source of the most important commodity for galactic society for millennia, but it's not understood, it's not heavily settled, the planet isn't even particularly valued by galactic society. It's used for a dumb scheme to kill off a minor house. The Emperor wasn't even very concerned about the spice supply, that was for the guild and the Bene Gesserit. He was more worried about the development of a superior fightman, since the pillar of galactic power is beefy guys with knives. I think probably because Arrakis has always been a planet of crude exploitation, and in fact probably has what we call in contemporary times 'the resource curse'; Spice is so valuable that there's no way that Arrakis isn't going to be hosed with as part of empire games constantly, and it doesn't help that the planet is otherwise so utterly inhospitable there's no other way to form a power base outside Spice or brutal guerrilla warfare. It is rather the point that the Emperor and the galaxy in general has taken Arrakis so utterly for granted it completely throws them that someone taking control of the planet effectively has them all by the balls.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2025 15:47
|
|
|
josh04 posted:Yeah, spice is (coincidentally I'm sure) analogous to oil, where for the power players it's in everyone's interest to have more of it and in no one's interest for it to be plentiful. It's also a major plot point that the ideal conditions for spice production are pretty much the opposite to the ideal conditions for human habitation.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 5, 2025 03:19
|
|
|
Leto had been staying officially single almost certainly specifically to give the Emperor a way out through diplomatic marriage, I'm pretty sure.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 6, 2025 04:59
|
|
|
That was (and sometimes still is) a pretty common approach to sci-fi, having a self-contained story revolve around a particular mystery, device and/or twist. Especially because they were usually short story formats published in magazines, probably. I doubt Asimov or Herbert were doing anything too new in that respect. Been said that Dune is basically a counter/response to Asimov's Foundation series, inverting most of the core premises.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 18, 2025 04:28
|
|
|
Lynch's Dune has been called the last old-style sci-fi movie, more Flash Gordon type of thing after Star Wars completely changed the game. Alien too, I think probably deserves some credit for permanently changing the public ideas of sci-fi. (Huh, and it came out in 1979, same year as Mobile Suit Gundam)
|
|
#
¿
Aug 2, 2025 04:30
|
|
|
Yeah, the Arrakis palace is basically one big bunker. One poster compared it to the Green Zone in Iraq, a fearful enclosed imperial outpost where the only locals permitted are the lowest servants.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 23, 2025 07:50
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Jan 22, 2026 22:50 |
|
|
Schwarzwald posted:It can be more or less explicit but even Doc Smith's earlier Galactic Patrol had Kimball Kinnison be helplessly reliant on his ever-so-slightly dominant big tittied nurse while in convalescence. That's probably just the kinda thing you get post World Wars where tons of dudes have had that experience. If Spike Milligan's war diaries are any indication at least.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2026 00:43
|
|