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Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




ungulateman posted:

mass effect is a dogshit take on the genre and me1 is part of an insanely bad sub-medium, hth

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zoux
Apr 28, 2006



ME had great sound design, I love the voice mod they do for Sovereign as well as the sound that the giant Reaper lasers make

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!


ME2 was a big improvement on the combat mechanics and put a lot more work into the characters than ME1 did, but at the same time the overall plot was an obvious exercise in spinning your wheels while you hope for inspiration to strike. And then it didnít.

Chuck Buried Treasure posted:

Didnít they rewrite the whole ending because the script leaked? iirc the original actually involved the dark matter/dying suns thing that got brought up a few times in ME2

I donít think it was specifically rewritten because of any leaks. Pretty sure they just went for years on end without ever being satisfied with any of their ideas on how to finish the story, until they had to lock down something to meet production deadlines. The lead writers for ME3 finally locked themselves in a room until they were able to poo poo out a plot outline.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Has a AAA game ever pulled off "your choices matter"

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.



Games Idiot Court Jester


zoux posted:

Has a AAA game ever pulled off "your choices matter"

Bioshock 2 has more endings than you'd think though most are minor variations

Sleeveless
Dec 25, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 4134 days!


zoux posted:

Has a AAA game ever pulled off "your choices matter"

What game, AAA or otherwise, pulled off having choices you made 4 years and two game ago continue to actively show up and influence things better than Mass Effect did

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Sleeveless posted:

What game, AAA or otherwise, pulled off having choices you made 4 years and two game ago continue to actively show up and influence things better than Mass Effect did

Well I'm not a huge gamer so I didn't want a deluge of indie games that are 30 minutes long but your choices matter

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



dark energy was drew karpyshyn's baby and got dropped when he left Bioware (because it was bad). organic/synthetic conflict was casey hudson who got Mass Effect rolling in the first place. the big change is that they just used organics v synthetics as-is rather than phrasing their Golden Bough reading through a secondary conflict like "dark energy pollution"

Wild Horses
Oct 31, 2012

There's really no meaning in making beetles fight.


Roth posted:

Despite everything, I still like a lot of things about Mass Effect

The Geth are a really cool take on battle droids



2 and 3 are not actually "mass effect" games, but some sort of michael bay esque adaptation of the sci fi book for 20-somethings 'Mass Effect' released in the 90s.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


Bring on the Mass Effect shitposts

Sleeveless
Dec 25, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 4134 days!


zoux posted:

Well I'm not a huge gamer so I didn't want a deluge of indie games that are 30 minutes long but your choices matter

Just due to the way that making genuinely different branching paths requires exponentially more effort for each branch it's basically not possible to make a single full-length game, let alone a trilogy, that follows this absolutely cockamamie pipe dream gamers have where the ability to make choices should lead to radically different outcomes. Also due to the fact that most people don't have the time or interest to replay a full-length game from the beginning multiple times so any kind of radical departure is something 90% of your audience will be unaware of so it's effectively a waste. The best compromise you can get is something like Mass Effect, Alpha Protocol, or the Telltale Walking Dead game do where the split is always going to follow the same story and series of events but the characters that accompany you and the attitude people have towards you change based on the roleplaying decisions you've made. Mass Effect having a save continuity between games where major and minor choices from the first game like whether you killed the crime boss in the tutorial or which party member you sacrificed still being referenced and effecting thing up to the end of the third game is basically a singular accomplishment regardless of whether you feel those differences are good enough, especially in an era where voice acting for everything was the norm.

The only games that do the type of majorly branching paths people think they want are visual novels or really short sandbox games based around grinding through replays to unlock new stuff like Way of the Samurai, and in both cases you have to replay a bunch of content with little to no meaningful change each times so it has a very niche appeal. That or you get something like Fallout 3 and New Vegas where there are technically a zillion possible endings but that's just because each side quest and story line can have one of three ending title cards.

ungulateman
Apr 18, 2012
Hello I am a person doing a thing via buttons. It's amazing what electronic singnals traveling through space can accomplish.

Makes ya think.

Purple m&ms are the best.

Under Tale

poisonpill
Nov 8, 2009

The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.



Lt. Danger posted:

the ends are fine.

(Crying, shaking) The ends are not fine!

Gnome de plume
Sep 5, 2006

Hell.
Fucking.
Yes.


The expectations people had for the ending were from being told they wouldn't make you press one of three buttons to get an ending and you wind up doing literally that exact thing

All of which identical apart from the colour of the lasers and the amount of explosions

Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007

"I think he's watching us..."

"No, it's just the Mountain Peeks."
(Source)



I didn't play any of the mass effects until Andromeda and honestly, it's fine. It's a fine space game. You can do the sex with a blue squid girl which is hilarious and I'm pretty sure the gay engineer guy too but it's all dumb as hell so I never bothered. There's an ice world and a desert world and a dark jungle ruin world and probably some others I forgot. There's lots of crew people you never really need to talk to though I'm sure there's a ton of dialogue written for their interactions. The alien ruins are cool. Oh yeah, there's a poison hot spring world too. Transiting between areas is kind of annoying. Climbing ladders back and forth through the ship is really annoying and best avoided. I used the frog alien dude and the blonde siren on my team pretty much exclusively and I think mainly used the explorer archetype. Anyway I guess there's these bad aliens that are capturing the good but standoffish aliens you have to win over and turning them into the bad aliens, and you have to put a stop to it naturally. Also there's this space miasma mcguffin but I don't really remember what that's about. Mainly I was in it to drive around and do sick jumps and look for secret areas and do side quests and maybe shoot the heck out of bad guys along the way which are the best parts of any game really, and in that regard the game delivered in spades.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

The alien techno-ruins really do look cool

Sleeveless
Dec 25, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 4134 days!


Gnome de plume posted:

The expectations people had for the ending were from being told they wouldn't make you press one of three buttons to get an ending and you wind up doing literally that exact thing

All of which identical apart from the colour of the lasers and the amount of explosions

Literally every single thing in this.post is objectively incorrect.

Dr. Red Ranger
Nov 9, 2011



Nap Ghost

I think the Anthem post mortem explains what happened well enough; Bioware got used to half assing everything and cramming a game together with crunch time at the last minute because it worked early in their career, but that slapshit irresponsible approach started to show as projects got bigger and more ambitious. The ME3 debacle was the point when everyone noticed (the multiplayer was easily the best). I haven't played a Bioware game since but I understand their Dragon Age series ran into similar issues.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









its funny how dragon age was kind of a big deal and then 2 sucked and then game of thrones came out and everyone realized it was just those books with warhammer magic

A Gnarlacious Bro
Apr 25, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Finger Prince posted:

I didn't play any of the mass effects until Andromeda and honestly, it's fine. It's a fine space game. You can do the sex with a blue squid girl which is hilarious and I'm pretty sure the gay engineer guy too but it's all dumb as hell so I never bothered. There's an ice world and a desert world and a dark jungle ruin world and probably some others I forgot. There's lots of crew people you never really need to talk to though I'm sure there's a ton of dialogue written for their interactions. The alien ruins are cool. Oh yeah, there's a poison hot spring world too. Transiting between areas is kind of annoying. Climbing ladders back and forth through the ship is really annoying and best avoided. I used the frog alien dude and the blonde siren on my team pretty much exclusively and I think mainly used the explorer archetype. Anyway I guess there's these bad aliens that are capturing the good but standoffish aliens you have to win over and turning them into the bad aliens, and you have to put a stop to it naturally. Also there's this space miasma mcguffin but I don't really remember what that's about. Mainly I was in it to drive around and do sick jumps and look for secret areas and do side quests and maybe shoot the heck out of bad guys along the way which are the best parts of any game really, and in that regard the game delivered in spades.

Sure sounds fun to play

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

i really like this games because i'm stupid!! doop a doop doopd odpdppp!

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

i kissed garrus and it was so cute! i loved it! hahahahaha!!!

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


Are you ok Pick?

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

Mass Effect was good because back when I was in the dork circuit we girls would all go off to someone's hotel room and take off our bras and then just talk about mass effect until 3 or 4 in the morning and describe our emotional distress that we were let down gently by Mordin. We understood, but...

hard counter
Jan 2, 2015





this franchise will always make me think of johnny cash's hurt

...i don't know why

Sleeveless
Dec 25, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 4134 days!


StashAugustine posted:

its funny how dragon age was kind of a big deal and then 2 sucked and then game of thrones came out and everyone realized it was just those books with warhammer magic

Dragon Age is more of a Witcher ripoff: you're one of the last members of an ancient but dying order of monster hunters who has supernatural constitution and special abilities thanks to drinking a dangerous magic potion that mutates you and uses that power to fight various ancient evil forces that threaten the world while also having some epic feels from the other assorted fantasy dipshits you encounter on your quest.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

Sleeveless posted:

Dragon Age is more of a Witcher ripoff: you're one of the last members of an ancient but dying order of monster hunters who has supernatural constitution and special abilities thanks to drinking a dangerous magic potion that mutates you and uses that power to fight various ancient evil forces that threaten the world while also having some epic feels from the other assorted fantasy dipshits you encounter on your quest.

it's all ABOUT the assorted fantasy dipshits

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


I am deeply concerned by your posting Pick, are you being held hostage?

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk




the only thing that was frustrating about ME 2/3 was the opaque poo poo you had to guess at in order to make sure everyone on your crew survived through the entire series. i seem to recall that all of your squadmates had to best very best friends with your shepard or else they wouldn't survive, and also certain squad members could only survive specific duties during the last mission and if you assigned wrong, they just died.

then in ME3 there were certain things that could happen that would kill off a character that you would have had no way of knowing in advance - i think miranda couldn't survive her personal sidequest if she wasn't in love with shepard, something about moridin not surviving his situation with the krogan unless you had resolved certain things from ME2 in a specific way, etc.

i guess that makes the storytelling more organic and realistic because you don't always know the long-term consequences of your actions in real life, but damnit i play vidja gabes for the power fantasy and the feeling of control so just let me directly pick what happens to my imaginary friends without having to do a lot of guesswork

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!


Are you one of those people who sent thane into the vents because he dropped from the ceiling in his intro cutscene

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.



Games Idiot Court Jester


I liked how in ME3 you could try and punch the reporter and she'd duck it and let you try again, but if you hosed up she lands one on you instead, or you could not be a piece of poo poo and give her a hug instead of all that because she's really scared and freaking out about the universe getting turbogenocided by space cuttlefish

I also liked how you could not let the other reporter on your ship because jesus christ Bioware what did you do to that woman's face when you digitized it

Galewolf
Jan 9, 2007






Zoran posted:

Are you one of those people who sent thane into the vents because he dropped from the ceiling in his intro cutscene

Zaeed as squad leader, Thane into the vents is the only proper way.

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk




Zoran posted:

Are you one of those people who sent thane into the vents because he dropped from the ceiling in his intro cutscene

i don't remember which person i lost (i wanna say kasumi or jack? one of the women) but i ended up going online and finding a guide which was a serviceable solution, so i was able to finish the game with a save that had everyone live.

but then there were still things in ME 3 that required too many specific decisions to be made in a certain order across 2 games that you couldn't easily just go back and change the outcome on a whim. it kind of made ME 3 feel more like a passive experience for me, because so many things were already decided (you just didn't know it yet)

anyway the multi-player was the best part of ME3 and i would have paid $60 just for that part of the game. i'm not normally a person that likes COD/BR/death math multi-player, so for me to get into it was really surprising. i guess it was almost more like a vermintide, where it's no necessarily you competing again other people, so maybe that's why i enjoyed it

Sleeveless
Dec 25, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 4134 days!


One thing I genuinely appreciate about Mass Effect is that they did an entire science fiction trilogy with zero spaceship combat in it, not even a lovely turret section. The idea that you're a group of special ops guys who go in to places undetected is so much better than yet another series that puts a bunch of WWII dogfights in space because it's mindlessly copying Star Wars.

A Gnarlacious Bro
Apr 25, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Only thing I remember was the goofy camera work on that that one ladyís rear end

Pops Mgee
Aug 20, 2009

This is the worst day of my life.


rip marauder shields

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

If you see me posting tell me to log off and get back to work on my Teledji fanfiction!!!

#1 Teledji Adeledji fan - Monetarists Did Nothing Wrong


Freaking Crumbum posted:

i don't remember which person i lost (i wanna say kasumi or jack? one of the women) but i ended up going online and finding a guide which was a serviceable solution, so i was able to finish the game with a save that had everyone live.

but then there were still things in ME 3 that required too many specific decisions to be made in a certain order across 2 games that you couldn't easily just go back and change the outcome on a whim. it kind of made ME 3 feel more like a passive experience for me, because so many things were already decided (you just didn't know it yet)

There really weren't that many things. You probably didn't feel engaged because the story is a stupid mess and loving terrible in every way.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

If you see me posting tell me to log off and get back to work on my Teledji fanfiction!!!

#1 Teledji Adeledji fan - Monetarists Did Nothing Wrong


I sent Thane to the vents not because he likes vents but because they said it was going to get hot and I read the codex entry and his species like hot, dry places.

It was no tragedy that he died (terminally ill assassin boo hoo), but Grunt getting carried off screaming by bugs because someone else hosed up the job I gave them was harder to live with.

hard counter
Jan 2, 2015





after perfect me1 and me2 runs i hosed up my me3 run a little because i wasn't used to the new mission interface on the galaxy map and i missed the grissom academy mission, if you miss it jack gets abducted by cerberus again and this time for good and she gets turned into a unique phantom you gotta blow away later

rip in peace jack, pretty sure that was the worst possible fate for you

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sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

If you see me posting tell me to log off and get back to work on my Teledji fanfiction!!!

#1 Teledji Adeledji fan - Monetarists Did Nothing Wrong


hard counter posted:

after perfect me1 and me2 runs i hosed up my me3 run a little because i wasn't used to the new mission interface on the galaxy map and i missed the grissom academy mission, if you miss it jack gets abducted by cerberus again and this time for good and she gets turned into a unique phantom you gotta blow away later

rip in peace jack, pretty sure that was the worst possible fate for you

hell, same

she was my romance too

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