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SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

I will play this game

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SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

hi i'm scum

i'm also good at fighting and have special abilities that make me even better at fighting if I choose correctly, preferably front row

also bif is scum with me

if you want to know the rest of the scumteam just ask, i'm happy to share

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Amnistar posted:

##vote solus

Dislike jokes about being scum, not a joke vote.

friend i'd never joke about being scum

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

did solus scum claim? I'll look eventually, but if he did, he's scum lol.

man it's only three pages and people have quoted it multiple times

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Scumclaiming is a good way to get reactions from people early on in day 1, AA's reaction is really making me :thunk:

Why say you haven't read the post, if you're only going to comment about it, AND throw an alignment read on it?

(additionally there was a string of games where I ended up being the D1 lunch and I tried scumclaiming to avoid being the D1 lunch for once, it worked, and it's worked in every single game I've tried it in since)

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

No, no no, you don't get to do this you, nerfherder.

You always scum claim and it's not a reaction thing, it's a "he-he, wouldn't it be funny to scum claim, because, oh-ho-ho, I'm scum" you do it everytime.

Source: I was just scum with you in Monster Hunter World, and you did this, just like the last time you were scum. You can't help but to tell on yourself. A compulsive confessor IRL.

I absolutely did scumclaim in that game

it's not an alignment tell for me, but that doesn't mean I can't use people's reactions as a gauge for them

The fact that you're trying to immediately discount any reactions I get from it makes me think I was spot on

##vote AA

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Pffsfbfbfbbtbfbfbt!


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I already got scum shook in this game too. My power level is too high.

:cmon:

is that all you got for a response

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

at least amni had the conviction to lay down a vote with their policy statement

alli just sauntered in with a weak "me too" that she could walk back if it became convenient

you're all up in here with this weak poo poo

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

alli again posted:

i'm not walking anything back, i've been saying "believe scumclaims" since as far back as i can remember lol

nah, hadn't said you did, just said that you could

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

thus the whole thing seems like you overextending, playing too close to the flame.

never not go hard all day erry day

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Amnistar posted:

That's my theory, but waiting for mod confirmation.

If so, then we have to choose between effectively guaranteeing a powerup, or potentially gaining multiple power ups.

This, of course, ignores the risk of what scum not in combat can do to building projects

I'm curious as to whether or not scum have outsized ability to sabotage projects, given that they're a smaller group by necessity. If scum can only sabotage as much as one person can build, there's no point to not optimally assigning people to multiple projects depending on specialties. If scum can sabotage more than one person can build, then it makes sense to try and force through building projects as overwhelmingly as possible.

But this is just setup spec.

Also, in the OP, scum can apparently choose to do nothing to a project they're working on instead of sabotaging it, so :shrug:

My personal preference would be to optimally assign people. I'm willing to bet one scum's sabotage ability is about on par with one town's building ability.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

So let me back up the plan I'm advocating by sharing my stats:

I'm great at combat. Like, that's very obviously what I'm specced for, even though I don't know what armor does (and I've asked mithross for an explanation).

I'm terrible at most building. I'm okay at masonry and probably slightly more than okay at seer projects.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

CCKeane posted:

Solus, can you give examples of games where you scum claimed as town?

sure, give me a few moments to go through votefinder

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

CCKeane posted:

Solus, can you give examples of games where you scum claimed as town?

Can't quote on locked threads, so I'm going to share the # link for posts:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3909229&userid=180474#post501405410 fate soldiers mafia

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3903613&userid=180474#post499956832 vanilla fuckin mafia

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3901280&userid=180474#post499216995 megurmans mafia

didn't in stalin mafia, surprisingly, but I was basically a cop so :shrug:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3894185&userid=180474#post496919395 claimed king in assassin in the courts, which is a... slightly different ruleset, may fall under that kind of "scumclaim" category

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

No worries, my skin is thick like callused rhino hide, I just think you look worse for your eagerness to push a case to get out of Jokephase. These aren't the droids you're looking for, I'm afraid.

...but those WERE the droids they were looking for.

A SCUMSLIP?!

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

MegaZeroX posted:

Sigh. This is super townie AA. If AA was being agreeable and actually looking like he was reading the thread then I would vote him in an instant, but this is his town meta.

I'm very suspicious of anyone having a very strong town read of anyone this early in the game. And even if you, for some reason do, by way of something like a n0 cop (pls don't claim if it is a n0 cop), why would you come out to bat for someone this quickly, instead of watching to see who seems to be arguing without genuinely casing? I don't get it.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Mithross posted:

I’ve had a few people ask so I’ll post it here too. Building is a secret day action. All players give me their selected project by the end of the day in their confessional or another private manner, and it is magically assumed you spent the entire day working on it.

Is hammer the deadline to select your project? I know you said day action, I just want to be 100% sure so we don't have people miss it due to a misunderstanding.

(Also you should put that in the OP.)

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Monathin posted:

My personal thought is that there is a whole lot of talk about mechanics and not really a whole lot of chat about who is scum.

Except for Jen's case. I'm not sure I agree with her reads but they are coming from a good place, imo.

Agreed, my eyes are glazing over from mechanicschat. A passing thought would be "who's mechanicschatting without scumhunting", because mechanics chat is a great place for scum to hide, especially since you can actually contribute- not just seem like you're actually contributing- by just mechanics spergin'.

People who have done this and done no scumhunting:

charms has barely posted, and only about mechanics.

b-minus1 hasn't done much of either tbh- thrown out a town read on me, AA, and Amni- no scumreads, very light mechanicschat. Do you have a scum read on anyone, binus?

Hunt11 has mostly sniped instead of throwing out a read- the one read that they kind of threw out, is this one:

Hunt11 posted:

In terms of the vote leaders I am favoring voting for Mega over Amni.

There's not much substance here and a lot of white noise in Hunt's post.

Iron Chef Ramen hasn't really posted so :shrug:

Mr. Steak hasn't done anything other than mechanicschat, give me a read, Steak!

PMush Perfect has only one non-mechanics non-joke post, and it's shading alli in one line, barely casing, but at least there's a vote to back it up.

Ruggan is two things: mechanics chat, and light defense of MegazeroX.

Out of these people, the ones that jump out as scummiest are probably binus and Hunt, pmust in a close third, but I want to hear reads from people who haven't given any of them.


I'm just gonna do the soothseer thing for my day action build shenanigans, and hunt scum. Someone else can do the citybuilder combat stuff thinking, because I sure ain't.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

SolusLunes posted:

Out of these people, the ones that jump out as scummiest are probably binus and Hunt, pmust in a close third, but I want to hear reads from people who haven't given any of them.

mafia edit: pmush in third

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

alli again posted:

this reminds me, solus: you said you were "probably slightly more than okay at seer projects" earlier. now that we know that nobody has an estimation of their seer stats, i'd like to know what this was based on.

I did say that! Check the FAQ discord channel, I had seen numbers and read too much into it. My affinity currently is ???, so I don't actually know what I've got going for me there.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

SolusLunes posted:

I did say that! Check the FAQ discord channel, I had seen numbers and read too much into it. My affinity currently is ???, so I don't actually know what I've got going for me there.

plus the numbers I did see are either good or my interpretation of the scale is way off, and I'm 100% willing to game the mod and bet working numbers haven't changed for at least some people

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Monathin posted:

Solus, is AA still your top read with you poking at the people who have done only mechanicschat and no scumhunting?

Yes, especially since they're voting Amnistar in a mutual cloud of OMGUSes when they could have pushed their case on me. If said people continue to not scumhunt, then I'll revise my reads at that time. For now we've got a day left and I'd like to be able to base more reads on people's scumhunting.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

alli again posted:

this, on the other hand, why are you saying this when mithross explicitly called out in the FAQ that the numbers were not finalized and may be different?

because he'd say that even if they weren't different

like I said, 100% willing to game the mod at any and all times

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

SolusLunes posted:

because he'd say that even if they weren't different

like I said, 100% willing to game the mod at any and all times

hell, ask SS3P, noted mod of a game that went on for several months, the combat system of which I broke over my knee by gaming the mods and creating obsessively large spreadsheets of RPS tendencies for players and mods correlated to NPCs

still proud of that btw

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

wait I just realized you'd know that anyway because you were in that game

regardless,

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

it was never your sword to begin with!!!!!!

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

PMush Perfect posted:

I'll be extremely real, I bit off more than I can chew a little bit, I think. 21 players is a lot to keep track of, and I only vaguely understand how the mechanics work. (Combat, especially, is a big ???? to me. Is it like Tactics Ogre?) Hard to hunt scum when I have no idea what anyone's talking about.

You don't have to case everyone at all times. Or even be aware of everyone's existence at all times, and have reads of everyone.

alli again posted:

This isn't remotely the same thing, though! Like documenting trends is what you are describing wrt the RPS spreadsheets, but guessing at what mithross actually did one way or the other after an explicit statement came out that the numbers are not the finalized numbers - like, explicitly, are not - based on, I guess, a gut feel, is not documenting trends. You say it's gaming the mod but wouldn't "shooting in the dark" be more accurate?

I'm shooting in the dark in that I'm assuming people are lazy like me and are saying a thing even if it's only true in a small number of situations.

I don't think it's a completely baseless shot, I do, however, think it's perfectly fine and reasonable for D1.

Besides, I've never passed up an opportunity for what is probably a Bad Idea.

alli again posted:

I think I'm obligated to not let this post pass unacknowledged, so I am acknowledging it.

these are the rewards of trying to be helpful to people!!!!!

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Bifauxnen posted:

I thought being willing to share who else was in scumdoc was Solus' bit

Kind of disappointed nobody took me up on that offer

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Mr. Steak posted:

this d1 has been confusing and dense, and im not fully caught up, but this is a vibes vote

if we're going by vibes votes your vibe is extremely bad with this vote

give me a reason why, steak, you've already been coasting as hard as possible today

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Iron Chef Ramen posted:

I don't know about the train cars in Shine.

Any information we can keep from scum is good. If we all claim where we're going to build, they can more efficiently distribute their actions to stymie the builds. If we're all scattershot, then that's not possible. Progress is going to made, scum can only do so much, so we may as well make them possibly waste their actions here and there.

Keeping information of this type obfuscated, especially if people don't claim until the next day, just gives scum more space to hide in. Without that information, it'll be difficult to get a handle on what projects scum disrupts.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

b-minus1 posted:

You can add Jen x to the top of my scum list. At least your post is an actual case. Though I did notice that you don’t actually conclude with a final town or scum read of me. And I routinely give town reads early in the game. I don’t have “even a little idea of who’s scum” because it’s day 1. I’m not sure what you’re expecting.

Are there other things that make you think JX is scummy besides voting you? What are your thoughts on her case on me?

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

b-minus1 posted:

I actually hadn’t read it but now that I have, I admittedly don’t find it super scummy even though I disagree with it. I don’t think that scum claim thing you did was overly scummy, or I can at least see what you were trying to do. You’re reaction to AA seemed to be from a town perspective.

Actually, the part of that jenx post that pings me the most is the “other reads/thoughts”

thoughts:

- Keane is good for digging at things which could be bad
- Ruggan’s post about not forgetting execution phase and then doing nothing towards that is bad
- mega’s self-defense is incredibly stupid but that very stupidity makes me hesitant
- PMush jumping in and out sucks
- Bif has good reasons and aside from caveating a vote looks good
- I’ve agreed with KB but my scattered notes don’t say why, thanks me of 30 min ago, I’ll take her townread regardless
- amni’s “I’m not voting, let me fumblingly say why” is not coincidentally the person I have my eye on if Solus fades, pointing out chainsaw explicitly is a plus tho


If Jen x is scum, it wouldn’t surprise me if there is some bussing going on in that post

You're right, I didn't really look too hard at the second part of her post. Several of those things are just "why would you even say that", like the Keane and KB lines. PMush and Ruggan feel like they could be soft bussing reads.

I think you've got a point here.

##vote JX

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Left out tinkering, and I think anyone saying terrible at most building great at combat is probably more likely to be a monster/infiltrator, also I find it strange that he knew he was probably slightly more than okay at seer projects given...

"Why is your Seer affinity ??? instead of words? Your character has no idea what it entails and is unable to estimate how good they are at it. You have an actual hidden numerical score like you do for other affinities, that will be revealed if you join Seer projects" is listed in the FAQ

Aside from the stuff I already discussed with Alli...

Why do you think town wouldn't have people bad at building but good at combat? Additionally, why are you sure that non-town is a monster/infiltrator? Why not just call them scum? Is there a flavor reason besides "that's how the game works" that you've got to think that?

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Amni first jumped on Solus for the claim, pivoted onto Mega, joined in shading me, is pushing a plan that probably is not beneficial to town. Amni and Solus both look like scum in plain sight hiding behind mechanics and too scummy to be scum. Riding easy votes and pushing cases that seem bad.

What about amni's plan is not beneficial to town? Could you elaborate?

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Dragonatrix posted:

Speaking of that discussion, I had a relatively slow workday today so I reread most of the thread while folks weren't really posting anyway. That mostly just solidified my opinions on Binus/Charms/Hunt as being overall scummy (albeit now rearranged to that order), I noticed that Alli only really posted anything of note like twice so far. Both times were for utterly banal dumb arguments because she was so focused on arguing semantics over anything of substance. In this case it being a thoroughly stupid argument with Solus because the modnotes for the stats says they "may be different."

Ironically, I'm currently inclined to think that she's just lurker-Town from this, because it's such an odd thing to do that effectively just serves to draw negative attention to herself. I realise there's a non-zero chance I'm WIFOMing myself super hard with that one, but it just... stands out as such thoroughly bad play that it almost can't be a scum thing to do.

Pointing out something that was a legitimate-seeming contradiction in my posts is negative? I don't think she was casing me or bringing up those points in any kind of disingenuous way. This, however, is an odd way of throwing shade on someone and distancing yourself from throwing shade on them by saying "but their bad actions were so awful it's towny?"

That makes no sense at all. Especially from the context that her casing of me wasn't a bad idea.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I'm just saying I bet monsters will most likely hide behind the "uh ho ho ho - I'm bad at building, but a GRREAAAT fighter" *wink wink*

It would just be the logical thing to do as scum I think. You look like you're contributing, and cooperating probably without lying. I doubt scum actually are great at building anything being destructive monsters. Just a flavor based hunch, but yah... I imagine a scum probably also doubled down on that specific flavor.

Reasonable enough, I suppose, but I think you're relying too much on flavor. In fact, I'm actually curious as to why you're not relying on the OP itself that states: "Scum players also commit themselves to building projects, which they either slow down just by existing, or actively sabotage."

What you're doing looks like reasonable scumhunting that people could disagree with, and if need be, you could go back on it with "oh welp looks like I'm wrong as town often is". Why not use actual mod rules in the OP and get rid of ambiguity? I don't think scum could even build if they wanted to.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

King Burgundy posted:

So an interesting question would be, if we were to vote a lurkerish person, who would you want it to be?

Ruggan. Their only non-mechanics scumhunting posts have been:

1. Light defense of Mega, a flip would help with deciding Mega's alignment
2.

Ruggan posted:

100% agree with this... although I have a tendency to think Steak is scum too...

This me-too-ing of one of my posts, with a built-in hedge.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

In fact...

##vote Ruggan

hey buddy you should come post

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

CCKeane posted:

Also says legos.

but I say legos

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

PMush Perfect posted:

In short, I don't trust my own D1 judgment right now.

Then why do you trust your judgement on a no-lynch call?

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

PMush Perfect posted:

There's no chance we accidentally kill a doctor by no-voting.

:thunk:

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SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Bifauxnen posted:

god, has anyone ever in the history of Mafia ever posted a full Lumpenlist of all players and not had someone reply to it with "why did you list so many scum???" :v:

liked the rest of this KB post, though. And his vote on ICR, I find it reeeeeal weird how some of these people being asked for their lurker picks did not say ICR when he's got the full trifecta here:

1) lurking
2) talking mostly mechanics instead of opinions on casing
3) ALSO, said opinions he posted about the mechanics suck

He agreed with me. :colbert:

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