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Nemesis is way worse for me. At least Insurrection was bad in the dumb/goofy way that bad Star Trek films are usually bad, Nemesis was just a grim slog.
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May 24, 2020 01:11
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Applewhite posted:Yes I know it featured in Insurrection. It featured in Insurrection
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May 24, 2020 01:15
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Prism Mirror Lens posted:Can someone point to specific,examples of TNG Picard not being able to relate to people or being uncomfortable outside of command? Like I said before, he seems like a normal guy at work to me. If anything the DS9 situation where they’re all best friends who go to the holodeck together is more weird Picard being super embarrassed to let the crew know he has a thing with Vash; not wanting to tell the love of his life Dr. Crusher how he felt because of chain of command stuff; that whole episode about dating his subordinate; his whole relationship with Wesley; that episode where an alien took him over and everyone's jaw dropped at the sight of him having fun; that episode where he's trapped in the elevator with the kids and the only way he can figure out to relate to them is by giving them ranks and talking to them like they're his crew; him refusing to take a vacation and begrudgingly going to a sex planet to be alone and read a book... I mean all that plus the fact you just basically never saw him, like, do any of the social activities like play poker or eat Riker's eggs.
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May 24, 2020 01:16
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i mean the fact that riker told picard to go get the sex statue is a hilarious prank is p telling
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May 24, 2020 01:18
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Animal-Mother posted:I wish we'd seen Cardassians in the movies. Their scaly lizard-ness could look really ghoulish on the big screen. Truly a missed opportunity for a Dukat-Garak road trip boner comedy
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May 24, 2020 01:24
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Communist Walrus posted:Truly a missed opportunity for a Dukat-Garak road trip boner comedy Garak: "Listen! You don't like me, and I don't like you, but. . . " Dukat: "I totally nailed Kira's m. . . Garak: "BUT!!! If we don't get to Risa and win the Dom-jot tournament by 50814.2 the Orion Syndicate is going to demolish the Rec Center." At the end of the movie two Cardassians stand in front of a monitor and slow clap. Blistex fucked around with this message at 01:32 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 01:30
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Bodyholes posted:I think it was the worst next gen movie but people hate Nemesis more for killing Star Trek, which is understandable. I'm pretty sure Star Trek: Nemesis is the physical manifestation of a malevolent energy being that continues to work its evil on the world to this day. ST: Discovery and ST: Picard are the being growing larger. We can only hope that Earth's impending magnetic polarity reversal will banish the entity back to its own evil dimension.
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May 24, 2020 01:32
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Blistex posted:Garak: "Listen! You don't like me, and I don't like you, but. . . " lmao
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May 24, 2020 01:38
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On the topic of Picard being Data's friend, I would think that having to argue to legally establish his sentience in order to prevent his dissection would make Picard somewhat fond of him.
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May 24, 2020 06:29
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You'd think that directly caring for the safety, security and having ultimate responsibility for the day to day wellness of a ship full of children would do the same. But no. Picard never cared a whit for children and TNG Television Data was regarded no better by him after 7 seasons than as a particularly efficient McDonalds Cashier with a particularly lovely half brother who would show and wreck the place once every few years.
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May 24, 2020 06:41
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Picard being super embarrassed to let the crew know he has a thing with Vash; not wanting to tell the love of his life Dr. Crusher how he felt because of chain of command stuff; that whole episode about dating his subordinate; his whole relationship with Wesley; that episode where an alien took him over and everyone's jaw dropped at the sight of him having fun; that episode where he's trapped in the elevator with the kids and the only way he can figure out to relate to them is by giving them ranks and talking to them like they're his crew; him refusing to take a vacation and begrudgingly going to a sex planet to be alone and read a book... Sounds more like he hates kids (which even PIC acknowledges as a character trait before chucking it out the window) and is a private, serious person. I argue Picard IS good with people - at least, adults. He’s diplomatic, commanding, charismatic, and understanding (e.g. the Barclay episode). He just isn’t comfortable airing his private life and compromising his command position. Which is imo correct even though Starfleet seems happy with everyone dating each other all through the ranks. God I would hate working under a ‘fun’ captain who wanted to join all my social events. They should make Star Trek: The Office about that.
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May 24, 2020 10:06
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Detective No. 27 posted:On the topic of Picard being Data's friend, I would think that having to argue to legally establish his sentience in order to prevent his dissection would make Picard somewhat fond of him. Nah just principled
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May 24, 2020 10:42
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I don't have a list of examples but I've always felt like Picard was Data's mentor and gave him the most guidance on his whole quest to become human thing all throughout the show. I feel like they had more scenes together than Data had with Geordi, even though the characters went out of their way to tell us they were best friends on multiple occasions. The bond grew over the years during the movies. There's so much stuff to criticize about STP it's so weird everyone has to focus on this one point. Also if you know someone you consider only a moderately good work friend, but then their last act in life is to remove you from danger before saving an entire ship, chances are your opinion of them will only increase in the 20 some odd years after their death. As bad as STP was, at least the cinematographer wasn't on loving acid. I can't think of a single scene in STP where the camera was spinning around two people having a mundane conversation so fast it gave me vertigo, and not once did a scene begin with the camera upside loving down. Can't say the same about STD. The poo poo still makes me irrationally angry.
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May 24, 2020 11:16
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counterfeitsaint posted:I don't have a list of examples but I've always felt like Picard was Data's mentor and gave him the most guidance on his whole quest to become human thing all throughout the show. I feel like they had more scenes together than Data had with Geordi, even though the characters went out of their way to tell us they were best friends on multiple occasions. The bond grew over the years during the movies. There's so much stuff to criticize about STP it's so weird everyone has to focus on this one point. Also if you know someone you consider only a moderately good work friend, but then their last act in life is to remove you from danger before saving an entire ship, chances are your opinion of them will only increase in the 20 some odd years after their death. That's because it lacked any creativity at all, see the "madness vision" stock footage for reference.
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May 24, 2020 12:42
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geordi and data have a different relationship than picard and data imo. geordi really is his best friend but the world isnt beautiful enough to give us a show that has a lot of levar burton in 2020. geordi would definitely drop whatever he was doing at the sniff of being able to reassemble his friend Data. their friendship is one of the best part of TNG picard would do almost anything for Data too imo, but picard would just do it because hes a pretty loyal MF to his squad and to his moral compass. basically theres a billion ways the show could have made more sense and most of the ppl itt probably would have jumped through hoops to like it if theyd done any of them Worf fucked around with this message at 12:56 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 12:53
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Breakfast All Day posted:Yeah, RLM seizing on Picard's S1 treatment of Data as being proof "Picard hates Data" is strange, I don't know why they kept hammering that point in multiple vids. But what do you expect from someone whose favorite Trek show is Voyager. There's some subtext throughout the series of Picard being uncomfortable with Data because Data is eager to embrace things in search of refining his humanity (humor, willingness to embarrass himself, etc.) that Picard has sought to discard to refine his own -- at the same time Data excels at cognitive clarity and a form of stoicism that Picard envies. This is amplified by Data seeing Picard as a role model, which intersects with the Picard/children discomfort. This is maybe the one thing STP almost got right, in Data coming to terms with his mortality and death before Picard (who is clearly disturbed by his condition and struggles to communicate it to those around him, while Data can show both vulnerability and resoluteness to Picard in asking to end his life). But TNG is clear that by the late seasons Picard considers Data a friend of a similar tier to Riker, and perhaps is only closer to Crusher. What people fail to see besides movie picard is picard's relationship with other people on board. He is all go no show captain. This has been discussed to death and back when first RLM review aired (thats how I learned about them) Besides Riker maneuver ofc
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May 24, 2020 14:35
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All this talk about movie canon suddenly brought to mind yet another missed opportunity by ST:P. While I generally completely ignore Star Trek: the Motion Picture in every way, ST:P's whole "omnicient artificial intelligence" plotline could have actually tied somewhat elegantly in with the race of "living machines" that built V'Ger with only the smallest amount of tweaking. I don't understand how a show manages to fumble what should be easy and interesting concepts so utterly and completely.
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May 24, 2020 15:23
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I think what’s more obvious in retrospect was how supremely low budget of a production this was, and how much they tried to cover that up instead of embracing it. Like they kept re-using the chateau set because they couldn’t afford a better set, despite the plot being about how happy Picard seemingly was to be back out in space. Asl RLM pointed out, they rendered 1 lovely starship model and couldn’t afford to model other ones. I’m sure they spent all their budget on Patrick Stewart. It lends to the theory that these shows are getting very low viewership, but CBS has too much invested in their lovely service to admit it. Edit: Also, was it implied in any other show that Dr Soong had a real son? I found that infuriating, as it essentially rewrote a lot of the soong/data/lore relationship just so they could lazily get Brent spiner in there, and the show even acknowledges how lovely of a character it is. Biohazard fucked around with this message at 15:41 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 15:36
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hmm its almost like they tried this same thing before
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May 24, 2020 15:40
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Applewhite posted:All this talk about movie canon suddenly brought to mind yet another missed opportunity by ST:P. I actually love Star Trek the motion picture. It’s not a good movie per se, but it is super weird, atmospheric, and had some great ideas like vger. It also did a better job than most of Star Trek at demonstrating that space is a dark, massive, horrific place that is just waiting to kill you in some awful way.
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May 24, 2020 16:09
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Biohazard posted:Edit: Also, was it implied in any other show that Dr Soong had a real son? I found that infuriating, as it essentially rewrote a lot of the soong/data/lore relationship just so they could lazily get Brent spiner in there, and the show even acknowledges how lovely of a character it is. Which of the Soongs? Their whole family is an utter mess Applewhite posted:All this talk about movie canon suddenly brought to mind yet another missed opportunity by ST:P. V'Ger seemed more borg in nature; also writers suck so much they missed way too many opportunities that were planted before. Dang it, bringing DeLancie back and tying plot with Q would have made way more coherent sense than anything...But it seems that depressed drug addict, samurai kid raised by assassin grannies, (borderline racism-stereotyped south american) 'broken but still badass' pilot, stupid backstabbing white egghead and fanservice gore emporium are better selling points than proper (and existing) show lore
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May 24, 2020 16:17
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While the expanded universe ties V'Ger to the Borg, aesthetically and thematically it seems to have very little relationship to them. The Borg aggressively assimilate living creatures to make more of itself, whereas V'Ger just catalogs things.
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May 24, 2020 16:21
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yup unrelated in-universe but seems like the writers took the concept of vger and made it into borg
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May 24, 2020 16:31
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I'm the fanservice gore emporium
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May 24, 2020 16:52
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Hell, if they wanted the "Looming AI enemy" they could have brought up the fact that the Enterprise D developed a sentient lifeform (Emergence: Season 7, Episode 23) that took off and was never seen again. . . UNTIL NOW! Also LOL that both Kurtzman treks relied on "Looming AI threat" for their stories. (Picard + STD Season 2)
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May 24, 2020 17:16
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I want diplomacy with lizard people and a B story where Quark tries to acquire the space shipping rights for Chateurobot Picard
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May 24, 2020 17:22
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Can we get a SciFi story where sentient AI isn't a threat?
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May 24, 2020 17:24
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Fashionable Jorts posted:Can we get a SciFi story where sentient AI isn't a threat? no
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May 24, 2020 17:29
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Fashionable Jorts posted:Can we get a SciFi story where sentient AI isn't a threat? Amazon is supposedly developing Consider Phlebas into an Amazon Original Series but I haven't heard anything about it since the announcement two years ago :/
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May 24, 2020 17:45
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I want dimensional anomalies, time loops, and unknowable horror subspace aliens
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May 24, 2020 17:45
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HD DAD posted:I want dimensional anomalies, time loops, and unknowable horror subspace aliens Might I recommend a little show called "Star Trek: Discovery"
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May 24, 2020 17:47
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Fashionable Jorts posted:Can we get a SciFi story where sentient AI isn't a threat? If you don't mind watching stuff that's 30+ years old, there's this show called Star Trek: The Next Generation
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May 24, 2020 17:48
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Communist Walrus posted:If you don't mind watching stuff that's 30+ years old, there's this show called Star Trek: The Next Generation I can only watch the Moriarti episode so many times.
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May 24, 2020 17:52
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I remember seeing a comic with a Superman-like character, and someone asking him "why don't you use your powers to change the world in a meaningful way" and him replying "because then it would be unrecognizable to the reader", and I really feel that when it comes to scifi authors. Sentient AI that doesn't immeditaly turn evil and try and wipe out humanity is apparently just too dang difficult to write, so instead let's just karate kick the AI in the face to defeat it forever.
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May 24, 2020 17:55
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Hey, Sisko defeated a demon posessed lizardman with a football tackle and that was the end to the whole series
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May 24, 2020 18:07
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Fashionable Jorts posted:Can we get a SciFi story where sentient AI isn't a threat? There was some talk about an Ancillary Justice TV series but it seems like nothing ever came of it.
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May 24, 2020 18:12
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I mean, that makes sense. If we've learned anything from Doomguy its that punching demons is always the right choice.
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May 24, 2020 18:14
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Applewhite posted:Amazon is supposedly developing Consider Phlebas into an Amazon Original Series but I haven't heard anything about it since the announcement two years ago :/ Been a while since I read it but I could’ve swore the plot centers around the location and capture of a super advanced and potentially dangerous AI?
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May 24, 2020 18:16
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the AI monsters being tentacles + evil red light is even lamer than the stock image premonition.
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May 24, 2020 18:16
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Captain Hygiene posted:Might I recommend a little show called "Star Trek: Discovery" I legit really like Discovery, ngl.
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May 24, 2020 18:29
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