Star Trek: Picard

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Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Crossposting Picard's showrunner's thoughts from TVIV because I want to see what you guys think of this:

https://trekmovie.com/2020/02/24/star-trek-picard-showrunner-michael-chabon-responds-to-more-fan-questions-plus-frakes-interviewed-and-more/

quote:

Concerns about the level violence in Picard:

I am not unambivalent about the violence, myself. The choice was not made lightly, though it was made collaboratively, and therefore with a good deal of conversation and debate among the creators. And so I assure you that it is not there simply �because we can,� or because we are trying, as you somewhat uncharitably put it, to be �in.� My partners would all have their own reasons for its presence in this story, as some of us had our own reasons for shying away from it. For me, it came down to this: there has always been violence (and even torture) in Star Trek. Sometimes that violence has been implicit, sometimes explicit, according to the dictates of censorship, the nature of the situation being depicted, the aesthetic of individual creators, or technical and/or budgetary limitations. And the reason that there has always been violence in Trek is that Trek is art, and there has always been violence�implicit and explicit�in art. It belongs there. It belongs in any narrative about human beings, even human beings of the future. Violence, often, *is* the narrative. Its source. Its engine. The question of whether it�s �too much� or not is ultimately a matter of taste. Personally, I come out closer to the �less is more� end. But that is just me. In the end, I saw how little time and space we had to convey a sense of Seven�s history post-Voyager, and the things that drive and haunt her. I decided, with my partners, that intensity was warranted. Seven lives outside the rational confines of the Federation, because that is where she finds her sense of purpose. But life is hard, out there. If it wasn�t, people wouldn�t need her help so badly. And she wouldn�t have found such a compelling reason to carry on, in spite of her history of trauma. But, I hear you.

Trek and positivity (or lack thereof) and reflecting current times:

First of all, I think that the phrase (or a version of it) �Star Trek has always reflected its time� is open to multiple, potentially conflicting interpretations. It can mean, �Individual Star Trek series have always (consciously) reflected thematically many of the most pressing issues of the time when they were made.� I think that�s the sense intended by people involved with making the two current series, and it�s pretty obviously true�starting with persistent themes of nuclear annihilation, racial prejudice, mechanization, totalitarianism vs liberal democracy, on TOS, through DS9 with its themes of individual vs group identity, chosen family, reason vs faith, and the inevitable moral compromises of war. (That�s only the *conscious* ways in which Trek has reflected the times in which it was made.) But the phrase could also be taken the way (I think) you take it: that the world, the milieu depicted by Star Trek�the characters and their interactions, their capabilities and limitations as individuals, the social institutions and mores and technologies and economics and culture�reflects the world and era in which it was made. I think you�re saying that this is wrong, that here is exactly where Trek doesn�t, hasn�t. and *shouldn�t* reflect the world and times. That it has always presented its crews, Starfleet, and the Federation as improvements, as realizations of our best potential, as aspirational. If Trek has reflected our world, it�s in a kind of utopian funhouse mirror, where everything looks better. I would say that by and large that has been true, though possibly not as to the degree that many Trek fans claim, or feel. But there�s another side to the world�the people and society�depicted in Star Trek, which is all the characters, planets, cultures, mores and interactions that take place outside of Starfleet, the Federation. Many of these �outside� cultures and characters�the empires and alliances and unions� *have* deliberately reflected aspects of our world, with its all imperfection, intolerance, brutality, its humiliations and injustices, its evils. I don�t mean just in a thematic sense, but in the behavior of individual non-Federation, non-Starfleet characters, in the construction of societies around prejudices and inequalities, violence, lust for power, etc.

That brings us to Picard. In the one, long, ten-part story we�re telling, we�re asking two questions about the greater world of Star Trek (i.e, the Federation *and* everything outside the Federation). One�a venerable Star Trek question, with a long pedigree in previous series and films: What happens when the Federation, the Roddenberry Federation with all its enlightened and noble intentions, free from want, disease, (internal) war, greed, capitalism, intolerance, etc., is tested by forces inimical to its values? What happens when two of its essential principles; (security and liberty, say) come into conflict? The answer has to be�at first, it buckles. It wobbles. It may, to some extent, compromise or even betray its values, or at the very least be sorely tempted to do so. If not, there�s no point asking the question, though it�s a question that any society with aspirations like ours or the Federation�s needs to ask. If nothing can ever truly test the Federation, if nothing can rock its perfection, then it�s just a magical land. It�s Lothlorien, in its enchanted bubble, untouchable by the Shadow. And, also, profoundly *inhuman*. To me it�s the humanity of the Federation�which means among many admirable things, its imperfection, its vulnerability and the constant need to defend it from our own worst natures�that makes it truly inspiring. The other, related question we�re asking is: What about the people who live outside, at the edges (or even within) the Federation but who, for various reasons, aren�t quite *of* it. Ex-Starfleet officers, refugees, people like Seven who served on a Starfleet ship but was never actually in Starfleet. People who have fallen through the cracks, or fallen victim to their own weaknesses. What is life like for people who, for whatever reason, live beyond the benevolent boundaries of the Federation�where, for example, post-scarcity is a dream, and there is a monetary economy? Again, there is precedent for this kind of story on Trek, but the fact that our story only resolves over ten episodes, not one, or two, or four out of a season of 23, might make it feel, sometimes, that there is more darkness, more trauma in our characters� lives. More *struggle.* This show unquestionably has darker tonalities than some others (DS9 is the standout exception). It lives more in the shadows, where the Federation�s light can�t always reach. That isn�t to condemn, criticize, undo, break or, god knows, betray the Federation or Gene Roddenberry�s vision. Shadow defines light.

Every new Trek series since TNG has sought to escape what can feel like the confines of previous series, not simply of canon (which can also be a strangely liberating force) but of the kinds of stories, about the kinds of characters and societies, that have already been told. Each new series has expressed this impulse to �light out for the territories� in a different way. TNG went a century into the future of TOS. DS9 went onto a station full of aliens that was both beyond the edge of the Federation and next to a wormhole that led to the Gamma Quadrant. VOY put 70k light-years between it and its predecessors, and introduced a raft of new species and worlds. ENT went deep into the early past of the Federation. Next season�s DIS goes to the Trek universe�s far-future.
The space we found for Picard is not �dark Federation.� It�s one of people who live and work at or beyond the margins of the Federation who travel beyond its boundaries to find the truth.

I suppose I admire him for bothering to post his reasoning behind some of the creative choices they've made but I feel like something doesn't add up here and it's just beyond my ability to form words about beyond "this gives me douche chills"

# ¿ Feb 26, 2020 01:16

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 08:20

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

I think stuff like the dolly parton nebula assault episode elevate it a bit above SG1, it's a decent show and I like the fact that there are dumb jokes in it that don't always land instead of tryhard edginess that basically never lands

Stargate as a concept is ruined for me because as an adult I understand that no branch of the US military or any other world superpower would ever give a poo poo about not committing war crimes especially if any evidence of their misdeeds is on alien planets behind a top secret wormhole gateway that only they control

Like, by the end of the franchise the US China and Russia have all built FTL capable space battleship carriers with space superiority fighter support and enhanced nuclear weapons that can lay waste to the surface of an entire world, and it's all locked away and all this magical technology is kept from the world's population. my gently caress what a nightmare

# ¿ Feb 27, 2020 10:19

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Tilly strikes me as the result of a bunch of old people writing what they think millennials are like

# ¿ Mar 3, 2020 19:46

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

If the soundtrack for this show suddenly started just loving shredding that would be a bold creative choice I could get behind

# ¿ Mar 3, 2020 21:59

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Everybody's just going to cream themselves over seeing Riker and Troi again regardless of how depressing it ultimately was

# ¿ Mar 5, 2020 19:06

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

My favourite part of the show is how there are about 5 minutes of actual story per each 45-minute episode, and the rest of the runtime is padding or callbacks to something you remember from 30 years ago

This is quality storytelling in the year 2020, apparently

# ¿ Mar 6, 2020 19:08

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Yeah it would be cool if Star Trek would have something to say beyond idealism is foolish and pragmatic shittiness is the inevitability of the future but that might piss off some of the loudest fans

# ¿ Mar 6, 2020 22:00

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

I fully support the inclusion of cybergoths in Star Trek, also please bring back huge shoulder pads

# ¿ Mar 9, 2020 20:22

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

They are making these shows now for the kind of people that still spend money on the MMO, I'll finish the rest of this season but I doubt I'll be back for the next

# ¿ Mar 9, 2020 20:37

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Do not pay money to consume Star Trek material anymore.

Star Trek 1960: the present is piss but the future sure isn't
Star Trek 2020: doesn't drinking all this piss make you feel like a grown up with your own life?

# ¿ Mar 9, 2020 20:45

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

yeah if this stuff is left wing propaganda then what the hell were these idiots watching before

# ¿ Mar 10, 2020 02:17

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

I got into red letter media reviews through this show, can anyone link other good YouTube reviewers that aren't insane chuds because I don't think I'm going to be watching this show next season

# ¿ Mar 10, 2020 19:14

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

I clicked on one of that guy's videos once and he spent 90% of it crying about sjws and feminists coming to take his dick away or something, terrible

# ¿ Mar 10, 2020 21:38

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Peachfart posted:

I wonder how mad Seth, who worships TNG, is about Picard.

If I were him, I'd be feeling fine right now

# ¿ Mar 11, 2020 21:28

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

piratepilates posted:

man I remember I saw that episode when I was like 11 and it made me wonder why women in the 60s had very pointy breasts but somehow by the 90s they had all morphed to be round

they do not discuss it with outsiders

# ¿ Mar 12, 2020 04:59

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

It was certainly better than last week's, except for everything having to do with the main plot.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2020 18:22

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

There is a basis for decent Star Trek game in STO's space combat unfortunately it's all buried under grindy MMO bullshit

# ¿ Mar 17, 2020 17:03

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

wtf is this show

like there's little bits and pieces that are like "oh hey cool" but like I can't articulate my thoughts anymore I'm just baffled

# ¿ Mar 19, 2020 10:42

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

I bet they have a really big 3D printer for them somewhere

# ¿ Mar 20, 2020 18:08

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Hahahahaha holy gently caress he's for real isn't he

# ¿ Mar 27, 2020 20:38

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

I wonder how many tries it will take for them to get around to producing something resembling a halfway decent Star Trek series

47

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 01:11

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

I seriously can't believe they lifted the plot from Mass Effect. Sheer loving hubris

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 03:06

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

I have no attachment to Mass Effect, I played the demo of the second one I think? Just never found the time to get into it even though it seemed right up my alley, but I absorbed enough about those games through cultural osmosis to recognize when it's straight up being ripped off

like how am I supposed to take anything Chabon or anyone else who made this show says about it seriously? They had to have known what they were doing. I can't believe anybody at that level of the production actually cares about what they're making after having seen them pull that, and that's ignoring all the other problems the show has.

I used to say Picard at least started off ok but the more I think about it the more that was just wishful thinking/nostalgia on my part, and after seeing the ending I have no trust in the creative team to do better. That was a 10-hour Voyager fanfic from 2003 with a modest budget.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 03:16

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Bargearse posted:

And like the Disney Star Wars movies, when they try to do something new and interesting, and try to break away from the nostalgia or at least try to be creative with how they use it, the fans drat near riot and demand more mindless action strung together with empty nostalgia.

There was nothing new or creative here.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 16:06

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

What was the point of the entire Borg subplot.

Seriously, I'm asking. did I miss something

# ¿ Apr 4, 2020 20:44

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Bogus Adventure posted:

I just checked in on this thread because I forgot that this show existed during with the COVID drama playing out in real life. Based on the comments on this page, loving at this show and that CBS already paid for 3 seasons.

Given the severity of everything that's happening what are the odds any of that ever gets filmed

glad to know I'm not just a demented old guy that can't follow a story, this show really was pretty terrible

# ¿ Apr 4, 2020 22:51

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

piratepilates posted:

did Picard have humour elements? I don't remember that at all.

Every time I think of this show I laugh a little at what an incoherent, irrelevant and plagiarized mess it ended up being. Unintentional or not that is technically a comedic element

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:13

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Captain Hygiene posted:

Your av reminds me that I legit laughed in appreciation at a Vulcan in shades, as dumb as it was

aww poo poo I feel bad that I finally forgot about that, that was priceless and may have justified the entire show

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:28

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

what was the point of the entire sub plot on the borg cube

who the gently caress is voq

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:39

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Issac Aurthur's youtube channel regularly chooses better CGI robot stock footage than Picard did

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:50

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

I thought it was kinda ballsy to have the fleet get stuck in an electric guitar solo in that nebula at the time

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 01:19

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

shutterstock ragnarok

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 02:38

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Applewhite posted:

I took a look at the Star Trek BBS and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W_szJ6M-kM

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 09:35

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

oh but seriously I posted:

I mostly liked the last two episodes of The Picard Show but I was in a fevered dream state and I feel that nothing good can come of me going back to check

You don't know that! My first introduction to Farscape was a weekend marathon on our sci fi channel during which I was also bedridden and delirious with a high fever. 12 hours of semi-conscious exposure to freaky space BDSM muppets later and I was officially hooked enough to keep watching the latest season when I was feeling better.

granted that was a good show, your mileage with this one may vary

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 10:56

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Between that pizza and his eggs I'm not sure that dude can cook

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 19:56

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Lemon posted:

This really stuck out to me, it was just so bizarre.

The fact that poo poo like that made it out of the editing booth is loving baffling. multiple people had to have seen that and signed off on it, do the producers just not care or are they incompetent? I can't decide.

# ¿ May 3, 2020 20:41

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Get ready for quality actors starring in another incoherent mess courtesy of 15 difference exec producers with fiendish coke habits to support

# ¿ May 14, 2020 00:17

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

he seriously is and from what I've read/heard he's got a great attitude, but the last two shows they've pumped out made Enterprise look interesting by comparison so ya'll are gonna have to go first this time

dreamy or not I still couldn't make it to the end of Hell on Wheels

# ¿ May 14, 2020 00:22

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Even if they get it right this time they are always going to have the dark cloud of having to try three loving times to land on "just make a Star Trek show"

# ¿ May 15, 2020 17:50

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 08:20

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

you broke my grill posted:

uhhh what? is this the same show?

What the gently caress?

# ¿ May 18, 2020 22:22

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