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Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

It’s alright so far, I really like the TNG cameos and Stewart is making a serious effort. Could live without the JJ Abrams action scenes.

So far they haven’t brought back Section 31 again so that’s a plus. Wish they’d have some DS9 cameos, maybe drop by O’Brien’s engineering classroom.

Wish they’d have mention of the Dominion War, even a quick “we rebuilt this part of starfleet HQ after the Breen Attack.”

Dunno why Romulans needed starfleet help to evacuate their home system from a supernova. They have a large fleet and an empire, just pay the Ferengi to make nonstop flights on space cruise ships.

Tal Shiar a major plot element, no mention they were nearly annihilated in a Dominion trap.

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Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Haramstufe Rot posted:

One of the things they get right is
a) retconning the movie supernova from "destroying the galaxy" to "destroying the system".
b) the impossibility of evacuating a planet with fleets of normal sizes

what they don't get right is that there should be ample warning about the supernova. Still much better than movie Trek, as there seems to be enough time to assemble a rescue armada. But if the event is naturally occurring, Romulans would have known.


As for b) some nerd in the other thread calculated this. Assume there are 5 billion Romulans in the system.

Assume the Romulans have 1000 ships standing by that can carry 1200 people at a time. Assume you just need to Warp to some system which takes 1 hour. Assume further that it takes three hours to load and unload.
The evacuation would then take more than three years with everything going on 24/7.

Of course, there aren't that many large ships available. Sure, Galaxy class ships can carry a lot more, but there are like 10 or so in Starfleet. Romulans probably don't have more than 50 Warbirds of that size. Even if you literally had 1000 Galaxy class ships you'd need around 100 days with this calculation. Of course, loading with transporters or shuttles has been shown to take much more time (the Enterprise spent many hours loading refugees to full capacity). Of course, no ship can do these operations for years without break. It is also unlikely that any given system can accommodate 5 billion people, so travel time may be more. Finally, there are probably many more Romulans in the system than that.


In essence, the task of evacuating an entire system relative to the ship sizes and fleet sizes that we know from Star Trek means that it is indeed an almost impossible task.
It is entirely possible that the Romulan empire has been evacuating citizens in "full force" for literal years, has hired all the outside help it could, and still the help of Starfleet would have been necessary.

That's like the one thing in this new series that is actually fine.

Ah, that makes more sense, thanks! For a TNG series they may be taking the approach that starships are rare and large fleets uncommon, with the loss of 39 ships at Wolf 359 a crippling blow that left earth undefended, as opposed to DS9 where losing a hundred ships to the Dominion in a week was bad but recoverable.

Glad there is a coherent explanation in universe, I was worried it was like starkiller base destroying a handful of planets and apparently the entire new republic fleet had been parked there.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

olives black posted:

I recently listened to an interview with Brent Spiner about the making of the Star Trek movies, and the first thing he recounted was that the catering was better than on the show. Really drove home to me how important it is to keep actors on as short a leash as possible.

That’s interesting, yeah I heard Michael Dorn talk about how his make up first season was so bad for his skin and he had so little to do other than get tossed around that he almost walked. Fortunately they listened and got better make up and scripts so he stayed, but we could have lost one of the best characters if the producers hadn’t cared.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

That episode was dire. Kept expecting someone to walk up and try to sell Picard deathsticks.

The bar standoff was pathetic. Subdue these three guards and have the crime boss at your mercy indefinitely. She will stand in place and make no attempt to escape, even after everyone leaves.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Delthalaz posted:

Need more funny hats and wacky aliens in my body horror, eye gouging, human vivisection, and cold blooded murder star trek show

Yeah no kidding. Probably idiotic notes from upper management demanding it be more like game of thrones.

Measure of a Man, Inner Light, The Visitor, In the Pale Moonlight, Lower Decks, Trouble With Tribbles, all fantastic and had near zero on screen violence.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

I don’t think they’ve said latinum once this whole series in their discussions about space money.

No way these screenwriters are gonna resist having Section 31 show up, being run by, oh, let’s say Tom Paris.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Shaocaholica posted:

Lizard guy didn’t get to do much for all the hyping. Did he even get a shot off? There are 2 distinct disruptor reports but you only ever see the one hit lizard man. Did he get popped twice?

That guy was badly written. He’s ugly and big, so he’s evil. He can smell lies but this potion neutralizes that. He’ll just stand there until someone stuns him.

Why not make him a Gorn, that’d be something.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Watched the newest episode. Slightly better than the last one? They finally mentioned latinum.

Question: Borg ships have standard issue portals that can move people 40,000 light years?!? And the only limitation is that it takes a few minutes to power up? And they only use it as a backup life raft for a queen to escape?

Can’t they just... park a cube on the edge of a civilization and march endless drones to assimilate every planet they find? That’s like having that dumb galaxy spanning transporter from Into Darkness and only using it for Admirals to go to Risa.

Heck, I’d watch a one season show of a small group of Borg conquering the Theta quadrant. Why not.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Rutibex posted:

to be fair this is less overpowered than the standard issue time machine that each borg sphere is supplied with

That’s my favorite Trek film but yeah never understood why they didn’t go back in time near Pluto then fly unopposed to Earth rather than fight a giant fleet.


Thanks for sharing I hadn’t seen that one, I thought they made up the Sikarians for this episode. But even if they couldn’t use it for ships, if it works for individuals seems like they could still send individual drones?

Argh I wish the Borg would grab Picard and bring Locutus back. Take a dang risk.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

I wish their ship were more interesting, just generic space freighter.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Dammit, you think Rios might be having an existential crisis? A slow pan over his bookshelf showed a level of contempt for the audience... well not really out of place in modern trek. He doesn’t seem like a old fashioned guy, with casual use of EMHs and replicators, why does he have actual books? At least put the titles in Spanish.

Also, this has by far the worst ship designs in a Trek. Discovery has issues but the slim, rotating saucer is pretty cool and other Federation ships look fine. If I saw Rios’ ship in a Mass Effect cutscene I wouldn’t think twice about it, and the Romulan designs are dull as dirt CGI copy pastes. The show teases Rios’ old Federation ship, or that we’ll see a Star Fleet task force... nope!

My lovely doomed FTL ships had better interior design. His dining tables wouldn’t be out of place in a city park, complete with perforated benches to be hosed down.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

oh but seriously I posted:

lol the borg are even more bitchmade than in voyager

I wanted at least one romulan getting nano injected and transforming. Or anything.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Well that was trash. I’d be ok with no more new Star Trek, they have no clue what they’re doing and the last kinda ok thing was Beyond and maybe two Discovery episodes.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Blistex posted:

/\ Belay that order.

Just took another look at the "final battle" and the hundreds of ships (called it) in it. I love that Starfleet is now comprised of a single (poorly rendered) class of ship that's a super low-effort cross between the Enterprise E and some hilarious fan-made concept. Everything about this show is low-effort garbage.


Oh for sure, a fun part of DS9 fleets was spotting the variety of federation ships like Mirandas and Excelsiors. It was great when that carried over to First Contact when fighting the Borg cube.

Fleet of the same lame ship was frustrating, especially as they immediately left after the Romulans bailed. The whole series would have been redeemed if twenty of the warbirds decloaked and wrecked the planet, roll credits.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

infernal machines posted:

We took an hour to visit with Riker, your suburban dad, as he learns to use his pizza oven. Don't worry, it all pays off when he sits in front of a green screen for the climactic finale

And that was the best episode!

They should have had the whole series be “Picard visits old friends”
Ep 1: Checking in with engineering professor O’Brien at an Irish pub
Ep 2: visiting Dr Crusher on the moon
Ep 3: doing a favor for Starfleet by dropping by DS9 to check on something

And so on, final shot Picard enjoys wine at his vineyard with his good dog

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously


Hahahahahaha oh wow I already didn't like the show, but this is just wow. Cutscenes from Alpha Centauri still look better. Hell, cutscenes from Command & Conquer when they pushed random programmers in front of cameras at least had heart.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

doctorfrog posted:

You are, right now, putting more thought into the last episode about this, than the writers, including Michael "Wrote some novels that NPR liked" Chabon, did.

The fact that not even a couple of those ships stuck around for first contact (as Applewhite said), or to make sure the Romulans didn't just go "Sike!" and run back to blow up the planet anyway, shows that someone wrote a sentence on a page in the plot treatment, and the rest of the team just sorta hoped someone else would think of something better by the time the final script was due.

The fleet was bad show writing summoned to solve the problem of bad show planning, a sort of double deus ex machina.

Yeah agreed. I think this is the first Trek series that hasn't cared about Federation ship designs with the least excuse in the age of CGI and big budgets. The final shot of Voyager arriving home had more care and attention to the fleet, and that was only like six ships.

Hell, organize a fan contest to put together 10 new ship designs to appear in Riker's fleet, fill it out with some Galaxys, Miranda, and Excelsiors, boom looks great problem solved.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Captain Hygiene posted:

I started liking Enterprise more when I gave upon going straight through and just started skipping around. Season 4 is what really made me think it was killed too soon. There some dumb spots and the ending is astoundingly ill conceived, but otherwise it's generally a good time that feels like they're finally on track for the series. And then it died.

Oh yeah I had checked out but was informed that season 4 had "Twilight" and "In a Mirror, Darkly," and dang those are some great Star Trek.

I wish Enterprise had taken a Mass Effect route, in the way that Earth without the Federation is the new weak kid in a dangerous neighborhood (not in the robot space tentacle way). Have Earth try to colonize a new sector, have a more powerful civilization like the Cardassians wipe them out, and let Earth conclude that there's nothing they can do about it. Ferengi pirates show up and start mining the moon and Earth is too weak to stop them and has to pay an embarrassing bribe. An Earth ship goes missing in an unexplored area and Enterprise can't find them and get no closure.

No need for it to be grimdark and there could still be plenty of optimism and exploration, but a cool emphasis on the universe being very different without the Federation and letting it gradually develop would have been interesting.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Captain Hygiene posted:

I liked the Harry Mudd time loop episode and the one where Pike & Co beam down to an unknown human colony. Either standalone or early enough in the S2 story that it was practically a standalone space mystery that just happened on the way of the main plot. Otherwise they often blend together in the larger arcs.

Yeah those episodes were standouts. If they'd stuck with an episodic format with only small arcs, instead of immediately leaping into Space War or whatever was happening with that angel thing, it would have been a drastic improvement. Especially as that would give us a chance to know the bridge crew.

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Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Prism Mirror Lens posted:

Why’d they use the romulans as a main plot point anyway? “Uhhh yeah you know that race you’ve seen tons of times? Well it never came up before, but they don’t have androids synths. Just, yeah, like, nobody ever mentioned this unique thing about them before. Make the character say ‘didn’t you ever notice’, it’ll be fine.” Just make something new up ffs you have the whole galaxy at hand

Simplest explanation is someone wanted space elf sword fights and adopted the pointy eared guys because why not. Their entire culture is based on destroying synthetic life, uh, but for some reason they never had an issue with Data or took a shot at Dr. Soong but are now willing to risk war over this.

Romulans are good as a TV show villain and when written well we get In the Pale Moonlight, but aren't interesting enough or sufficiently well developed to be movie villains or to sustain a whole season. Nemesis was trash, Star Trek 2009 was ok but they were pretty much space pirates, and Picard was nonsense.

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