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Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Tias posted:

This area has moved quite a lot since. At least the Oseberg woman is considered to have been a professional warrior now.

Do you have any links? As far as I know there wasn't any weapons In her grave and that she's believed to be queen Åsa, grandmother og Harald Fairhair.

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BattyKiara
Mar 17, 2009


Tias posted:

This area has moved quite a lot since. At least the Oseberg woman is considered to have been a professional warrior now.



I thought she was a (forgot the Norse name) wise woman? Some kind of priestess who could see into the future or talk to the dead?

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE


BattyKiara posted:

I thought she was a (forgot the Norse name) wise woman? Some kind of priestess who could see into the future or talk to the dead?

Völva / Vǫlva / Vølve. Also, forget it Jake; it's moon language.

Tias
May 25, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


En Danish, it's Vølv in singular and Vølve in plural - but old Danish, like old norse, was a shitshow. On the subject, the saga detailing nearly everything we know of Norse creation myth and eschatology, Vóluspa ("The Seeress' Prophecy") involves Odin raising a powerful Vølv from the dead and conning her into relating the secrets of the universe!

Alhazred posted:

Do you have any links? As far as I know there wasn't any weapons In her grave and that she's believed to be queen Åsa, grandmother og Harald Fairhair.

We're probably not talking about the same person, then.

E: Found out what I was referring to!

I was at a lecture by Unn Pedersen, associate professor of archeology and viking age studies at Oslo U. She's been involved in the many excavations in the site of Kaupang ("trade-meadow"), which was an urban trading centre in the viking age. The dudes who originally excavated the place just assumed everyone with weapons were male, but after dogged insistence and involvement from anatomy experts, eventually a whopping 50% of the graves were re-assessed as female.

Many were buried with combat-worn rawhide armours and a selection of practical arms, suggesting they were caravan guards or possibly military to begin with.

Tias fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Feb 23, 2020

Mad Hamish
Jun 15, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.




I'm going to a braggi this evening and I'll report back.

Tias
May 25, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Mad Hamish posted:

I'm going to a braggi this evening and I'll report back.

A what Does it relate to Brage?

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
DESPITE CLAIMING TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT LANGUAGES I CAN'T COMMUNICATE WORTH A DAMN

This is probably a dumb question, and I'm probably going to phrase it awfully, so please understand I mean this well :

You say large chunks of the religion is reconstructed and some of it is just kind of filled in. Could you elaborate on this more and how those interact? I'm very curious about a religion that also ties directly into historical scholarship and I'd love to hear more about it. To give a toy example, imagine you had some rite that you did the best guess on what it was like historically, but then it turns out new evidence came to light and it was something totally different : what does one as a member of the community do with this information? Especially if it's been being practiced for a long while.

I hope I'm not being offensive ; I'm honestly just interested academically and think it's really cool. Usually I'd wait to buy you 3 beers before this kind of conversation.

Tias
May 25, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Story time!

zonohedron posted:

And, of course, please tell us more about "The completely batshit conversion of Iceland" :popcorn:

Well, the story of christianizing Iceland is roundabout, and we must remember that it didn't happen all at once or in the same areas immediately and so on. That said, hoo boy..

Some Irish friars had colonized Iceland before the now-Icelandic settlers arrived, testing themselves against the elements. We're not entirely sure what happened to them, but we know they left. Often when this is the case, the christians seem to be scared off on their own account, the Norse here were more tolerant of other religions on account of haven been recently chased out of Norway for their way of life.

Anyway, the pagan Norwegians show up almost immediately after the re-discovery of Iceland (by Swede Garðar Svavarsson) in the 870s. A pagan commonwealth grows up, and is rather undisturbed until missionaries show up in 980, including an Icelander and his father who brought along the Saxon who baptized them, a bishop Fridrek. They try to visit various things and talk Jesus, but are the subject of ridicule and even insulting skaldic verses. This is kind of a big deal, and the trio react by killing several who insult them. After a couple of these clashes they leave, and apparently die off the island.

Enter Olaf Tryggveson, king of Norway. After ascending the throne, he puts all in on converting folks, and sends a dude named Stefnir to bring Iceland into the fold. Unfortunately, Stefnirs plan consists of talking poo poo and destroying pagan shrines (probably the personal altars in the chieftains halls!), and nets him nothing except an outlawry and a new law declaring christians bringers of shame on their kin and so easier to outlaw. Then came Thangbrand, a more experienced missionary fresh off turning heads in Norway and the Færø islands.

Thangbrand converted a couple of chiefs, but also killed a couple of dudes, violence apparently being a sound theological argument in those days. This was considered a failure, and Harald straight-up embargoed Icelandic ships from entering norse ports and kidnapped children of prominent Icelandic chiefs living in Norway, cutting off all trade relations with the island, and refusing to budge unless Iceland converted. Nevertheless, they persisted until next summer, and at this point, three Armenian bishops join the fun, having been invited (for non-religious reasons) by Harald Hardrada during his time as a Varangian guard. More Icelanders are converting, and supporting the kings efforts at conversion, tensions rise and civil war looms on the horizon.

Next summer, the Allthing (highest governing institution that convenes once a year) convenes and decides to lay the matter to rest through negotiation. , Thorgeir Thorkelsson, the gode of Ljósavatn, was acceptable to both sides as mediator, being known as a moderate and reasonable man. Thorgeir accepted responsibility for deciding whether Iceland should become Christian, with the condition that both parties abide by his decision. And this is where poo poo gets weird!

Thorgeir rests "under a blanket" for a day and a night, before coming to a decision. The exact provenance of the event is unclear, and I favour/hope for the explanation that he either entered a sweat lodge or made a seidr journey to asks the gods himself, blinding himself under a pile of furs to facilitate the travel of consciousness. He may just have gotten drunk and worried in bed. We don't really know.

Upon rising from the blanket, Thorgeir says Iceland converts, provided that A) they're still allowed to eat horseflesh, B) they can still perform infanticide by exposure, and C) that you can do pagan worship in private, basically as a don't ask don't tell type of deal. This raised some hackles, as Pope Gregory III had banned the Germanic custom of eating horses back in the 730s, and while killing 'surplus' children by exposing them to the elements was an entrenched cultural practice in Iceland, the christian world frowned on it.

Via the poet Steinunn Refsdóttir, we learn of another great theological spat at this time. Allegedly she has heard from Thangbrand that the thing would-be converts is most often asking him is if Jesus could beat up Thor in a fistfight, and if not, then they're not interested With typical assurance, Thangbrand crafts a verse (probably written by Steinunn) that the challenge was already given, and that Thor hid like a frightened punk. She goes on to explain in verse, that Thor actually wasn't afraid, and when the ship carrying Thangbrand off the island crashes, Thor was behind it since he shouldn't talk poo poo. She is also interesting for being one of the few female poets whose work we still have access to!

Anyway, Thorgeir, who is himself a respected pagan priest, gathers all the statues and pagan icons at the allthing, and, with a heavy heart we must assume, chucks them all into a waterfall. The fall has ever since been known as Goðafoss, lit. "Waterfall of the Gods". While it seems kind of wild that nothing happened after that, it seems like the godes of Iceland honestly preferred converting to civil strife, and the church eventually stamped out pagan worship, and the associated horse eating and child-exposure, once they had total control of the state.

Tias
May 25, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Xiahou Dun posted:

This is probably a dumb question, and I'm probably going to phrase it awfully, so please understand I mean this well :

You say large chunks of the religion is reconstructed and some of it is just kind of filled in. Could you elaborate on this more and how those interact? I'm very curious about a religion that also ties directly into historical scholarship and I'd love to hear more about it. To give a toy example, imagine you had some rite that you did the best guess on what it was like historically, but then it turns out new evidence came to light and it was something totally different : what does one as a member of the community do with this information? Especially if it's been being practiced for a long while.

I hope I'm not being offensive ; I'm honestly just interested academically and think it's really cool. Usually I'd wait to buy you 3 beers before this kind of conversation.

It's not a dumb question, heathens struggle a lot with them as well! Like, there are a great many heathens who take a great interest in the archeology of religion in Europe, and may even incorporate new knowledge into their faith and rites - but those are on one end of a scale, where you will find folks on another end, who just want to "go viking" and will straight up incorporate myths they learned from Marvel or HBOs Vikings without checking out the provenance. The problem here, of course, is that there is no authoritative source on how to worship (we have no unified church on the extra-national level aside from very small networks of like minds), and strictly speaking, one's heathenry is as correct as the next, as religion doesn't mean conformity to a given dogma.

If I was confronted with the situation in your example, it is very probable that nothing would happen. We know so little already that we don't claim to practice in a manner faithful to pre-christian norse ritual, at least not in my group. Being the aforementioned type of nerd, I would probably consider changing the ritual, but our rituals have been designed in the modern age, and it may not be received well.

There's also the question of modernity itself. In my eyes, heathenry must be practiced in a thoroughly modern fashion. Nearly everything wrong with the faith can be traced back to anti-modernism. It draws in a great deal of folks who are already racist, sexist and homophobic, and they figure since it's "viking religion durrrr" we must 'go back' to an ideal age - never mind that these idiots can't place said ideal age, nor know anything about it in the first place. From regular joes who come for the axes and mead to the straight-up fascist pagans, it's all toxic masculinity and insecurity stemming from the modern world.

To put the matter on the edge: We know pagans sacrificed humans on occasion, but that doesn't mean I think we should do it

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

There's no small internal tension between the rear end in a top hat thor-worshippers and us queer folk within heathenry as a result. There's a reason a lot of us don't feel welcome in thor-centric circles and prefer Odin or Loki and it ain't just the myths.

EDIT:
And don't get me started on being a christopagan heathen. No one likes us, and rightly so. We're terrible.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
DESPITE CLAIMING TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT LANGUAGES I CAN'T COMMUNICATE WORTH A DAMN

Uh...

I would get you started. I don't know what half of those words mean and would like to.

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

Xiahou Dun posted:

Uh...

I would get you started. I don't know what half of those words mean and would like to.

Take Christianity and smash it headlong into whatever pagan faith you prefer and you get Christopaganism, which is religion for fencesitters and lunatics who want to treat religion like an extremely inclusive yarning circle. There’s actually a lot of it in heathenry but it’s mostly covert in the form of heavily Christian influenced Heathen worship, the followers of which get really mad at the implication they might have allowed Christian influences in. Some of this is inevitable due to the Christianisation predating most written records of the antecedents of heathenry but other elements, like the Nine Noble Virtues, are full on modern syncretism in disguise.

I jokingly call us terrible but that’s because Christopaganism is widely disliked, as most Christians are strict monotheists who exclude many-in-one monotheism, and most pagans view Christianity and paganism as mutually exclusive due to the history and most christopagans being either batshit, Christian with decorations, sorcery nuts (hi), or combining multiple pantheons. My individual case is one where I identify with the ways of Odin (in splendour and in shame) as my sense of the divine presence most accessible to me, within a strongly Kabbalistic panentheistic and pantheistic cosmological framework with a belief in non-Pauline Christianity as a source of generally reasonable ethical instruction. That should pretty much justify the label of batshit and act as a disclaimer that my experience with and perception of Heathenry as a whole is coloured by both these positions and the general tension between Heathens of more and less Christian inclination.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



The recent talk about modern influences in paganism got me thinking, especially the comment about people drawing poo poo from Marvel movies:

How do modern pagans react to the liberal use of their religion in pop culture? Marvel's Thor is kind of a mind gently caress when you think about it through that lens. Like, I'm trying to imagine Jesus or Ram or Buddha as a no bullshit member of the Justice League or something. If you stop and think about it, there are a bunch. Everything form TV shows to movies to video games. I mean, culture isn't exactly lacking in judeo-christian reference (Diablo is kind of, uh, influenced by christian hell iconography although it's less direct than something like Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice) but it never seems as direct as Thor, a god recognized as part of a divine pantheon in this very thread, punching a giant purple Space Hitler on the big screen.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


Loomer posted:

Take Christianity and smash it headlong into whatever pagan faith you prefer and you get Christopaganism, which is religion for fencesitters and lunatics who want to treat religion like an extremely inclusive yarning circle. There’s actually a lot of it in heathenry but it’s mostly covert in the form of heavily Christian influenced Heathen worship, the followers of which get really mad at the implication they might have allowed Christian influences in. Some of this is inevitable due to the Christianisation predating most written records of the antecedents of heathenry but other elements, like the Nine Noble Virtues, are full on modern syncretism in disguise.

I jokingly call us terrible but that’s because Christopaganism is widely disliked, as most Christians are strict monotheists who exclude many-in-one monotheism, and most pagans view Christianity and paganism as mutually exclusive due to the history and most christopagans being either batshit, Christian with decorations, sorcery nuts (hi), or combining multiple pantheons. My individual case is one where I identify with the ways of Odin (in splendour and in shame) as my sense of the divine presence most accessible to me, within a strongly Kabbalistic panentheistic and pantheistic cosmological framework with a belief in non-Pauline Christianity as a source of generally reasonable ethical instruction. That should pretty much justify the label of batshit and act as a disclaimer that my experience with and perception of Heathenry as a whole is coloured by both these positions and the general tension between Heathens of more and less Christian inclination.

You might consider hanging out in the Religion (Christianity & Friends, really) Thread!

There are actually a ton of Christian + pagan/heathen/indigenous syncretisms out there. I'm most familiar with some of the Native American (Lakota specifically) versions where a lot of folks around here are Catholic but also they pray to the spirits of their ancestors and perform ritual blood sacrifices for fertility. So, y'know.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
DESPITE CLAIMING TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT LANGUAGES I CAN'T COMMUNICATE WORTH A DAMN

Yeah I'm immediately thinking of things like Candomble and Voudon and wondering about parallels/differences.

Bhurak
Nov 12, 2007

Playing music in the key of HIP!


Fun Shoe

Cyrano4747 posted:

The recent talk about modern influences in paganism got me thinking, especially the comment about people drawing poo poo from Marvel movies:

How do modern pagans react to the liberal use of their religion in pop culture? Marvel's Thor is kind of a mind gently caress when you think about it through that lens. Like, I'm trying to imagine Jesus or Ram or Buddha as a no bullshit member of the Justice League or something. If you stop and think about it, there are a bunch. Everything form TV shows to movies to video games. I mean, culture isn't exactly lacking in judeo-christian reference (Diablo is kind of, uh, influenced by christian hell iconography although it's less direct than something like Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice) but it never seems as direct as Thor, a god recognized as part of a divine pantheon in this very thread, punching a giant purple Space Hitler on the big screen.

Super best friends?

It seems to be taken fairly well but with a grain of salt. This is the religion for loving nerds, after all. Nerds like pop culture and all the heathens I know buy anything vaguely Norse. Myself included.

I've seen some internal communication where a fellow was lamenting teenage girls and "boyfriend Loki" telling jokes but he seemed like a humourless dick.

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

Fritz the Horse posted:

You might consider hanging out in the Religion (Christianity & Friends, really) Thread!

There are actually a ton of Christian + pagan/heathen/indigenous syncretisms out there. I'm most familiar with some of the Native American (Lakota specifically) versions where a lot of folks around here are Catholic but also they pray to the spirits of their ancestors and perform ritual blood sacrifices for fertility. So, y'know.

I do from time to time. Christianity is definitely readily syncretized by pretty much every non-monotheistic faith it encounters, but the forms that emerge naturally from assimilation and forced conversions aren't usually considered Christopagan by either Christopagans, pagans, or Christians despite their prior existence to the emergence of modern christopaganism ( in the same way that surviving Indigenous religious and spiritual practices aren't usually lumped in with modern paganism, which tends towards the eurocentric). To keep it more focused on the Heathenry aspect, there's some evidence for syncretic Christo-Heathenry in the immediate post-christianization period. There's enough references to and laws prohibiting continued heathen prayer that we can be certain that the conversions were usually less than complete (and the Icelandic conversion is a great example, with the insistence that heathenry be permitted as a private affair), and references here and there to people praying to Thor and Freyr alongside Jesus. Modern Heathenry as a whole prefers to look before that blurring, though, so the christopagan elements tend to be smuggled in the back door due to the cultural influence of christianity on Heathen writers and communities.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
DESPITE CLAIMING TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT LANGUAGES I CAN'T COMMUNICATE WORTH A DAMN

Please very much keep posting cause this is all cool and good, but just a minor point of clarification : many syncretic beliefs in South-America and the Caribbean are (nominally) still part of the Catholic Church. Enough so when, for example, the Pope visits Haiti he changes outfits and terminology. Just a really minor nitpick. According to the Vatican Voudon is still Catholicism (except when it's not).

Thirteen Orphans
Dec 2, 2012

The principles expressed in the martial arts make up the backbone of my philosophy.

Xiahou Dun posted:

.According to the Vatican Voudon is still Catholicism (except when it's not).

Do you have a source for this?

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

Xiahou Dun posted:

Please very much keep posting cause this is all cool and good, but just a minor point of clarification : many syncretic beliefs in South-America and the Caribbean are (nominally) still part of the Catholic Church. Enough so when, for example, the Pope visits Haiti he changes outfits and terminology. Just a really minor nitpick. According to the Vatican Voudon is still Catholicism (except when it's not).

That's what I mean. 'Traditional' Syncretic Christianities usually aren't considered Christopagan and usually instead are identified as part of either Christianity (whichever form they spring from) or the enduring pre-Christian religion, or sometimes both, depending on circumstance (and also sometimes - even simultaneously - as pagan from the fundamentalist crowd, but for them everything that isn't their exact system is either paganism, satanism, or heresy). Because of that, they're excluded from the christopagan label, which signifies a more recent syncretization without institutional support from any mainstream Christian sect or non-Christian faith that takes place outside the frameworks of assimilative-syncretic christianity.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
DESPITE CLAIMING TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT LANGUAGES I CAN'T COMMUNICATE WORTH A DAMN

Oof, you're right. Once I started looking for sources I realized my lazy memory massively over-simplified things.

Apparently after Jean Paul II they softened and now they're more flexible but he was the first Pope to actually acknowledge local customs and it's still complicated. Now they'll sometimes give some rites and they aren't gung-ho about stamping it out, but it is still not technically Catholic.

I stand corrected. Don't know how I got that idea in my head.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Tias posted:

Upon rising from the blanket, Thorgeir says Iceland converts, provided that A) they're still allowed to eat horseflesh, B) they can still perform infanticide by exposure, and C) that you can do pagan worship in private, basically as a don't ask don't tell type of deal.

I love this.

"Ok, we'll convert to Christianity, but only under three conditions: One, we can keep eating horses."
"Alright, I guess there's some wiggle room there."
"Two, infanticide is still cool."
"...Yeah, that's really not something we can compromise on-"
"And three, we can stay pagan."
"...Let's start over."

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Angry Salami posted:

I love this.

"Ok, we'll convert to Christianity, but only under three conditions: One, we can keep eating horses."
"Alright, I guess there's some wiggle room there."
"Two, infanticide is still cool."
"...Yeah, that's really not something we can compromise on-"
"And three, we can stay pagan."
"...Let's start over."
Its not a clean break between paganism and christianity In Scandinavia. There's been discovered amulets with both the cross and hammer and the earliest churches also have pagan imagery. There is also a story about king Håkon the Good who refused to toast for Odin until someone pointed out that he was in a room filled with violent drunken pagans. He then toasted for Odin and left the party.

Elukka
Feb 17, 2011



I'm reminded of the Norwegian rune poem (basically an ABC song, the point of these was just to remember the runes) talking about Tyr, Loki and Jesus all at once.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






As an aside, the coat of arms of the norwegian church is a cross and two axes:

This is because the one that started the christianisation of Norway, Olav the Holy (formerly known as Olav the Huge), was a viking who spent much of his life killing other people with axes.

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



Elukka posted:

I'm reminded of the Norwegian rune poem (basically an ABC song, the point of these was just to remember the runes) talking about Tyr, Loki and Jesus all at once.

You'll hear stuff like that in Anglo Saxon poetry and surviving writings as well. Christianization was a gradual process in Northern Europe.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Fearless posted:

You'll hear stuff like that in Anglo Saxon poetry and surviving writings as well. Christianization was a gradual process in Northern Europe.

poo poo, just look at some of the christian as gently caress high holy days. Easter has some very deep pre-christian roots. A 5th century Roman christian would look at the poo poo Catholics today do and comment on how a lot of the traditions were synchretic as all gently caress.

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



Cyrano4747 posted:

poo poo, just look at some of the christian as gently caress high holy days. Easter has some very deep pre-christian roots. A 5th century Roman christian would look at the poo poo Catholics today do and comment on how a lot of the traditions were synchretic as all gently caress.

The timing of Christmas has more to do with it supplanting Saturnalia than its reflection of when Jesus was born. Lamb season is in the spring, not in December so in all likelihood Christ was born sometime around Easter.

Tias
May 25, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Angry Salami posted:

I love this.

"Ok, we'll convert to Christianity, but only under three conditions: One, we can keep eating horses."
"Alright, I guess there's some wiggle room there."
"Two, infanticide is still cool."
"...Yeah, that's really not something we can compromise on-"
"And three, we can stay pagan."
"...Let's start over."

Medieval europe is full of a lot of deals like this. Have a freebie in the form of the reformation in Iceland that went down a lot, eh, sharper:

1. The danes seize catholic bishops and start reformation.
2. one see remains firmly catholic, and the bishop in charge digs up Gissur, Icelands first protestant reformer, and desecrates the corpse and calls it a heretic.
3. the protestants seize the bishop and all his sons, behading them.
4. profit!

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






It was a lot like that in Norway too. Olav Tryggvason for example was a fan of forcing vipers down the throat of people that didn't want to convert.

Alhazred fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Mar 2, 2020

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Grimey Drawer

Alhazred posted:

Its not a clean break between paganism and christianity In Scandinavia. There's been discovered amulets with both the cross and hammer and the earliest churches also have pagan imagery. There is also a story about king Håkon the Good who refused to toast for Odin until someone pointed out that he was in a room filled with violent drunken pagans. He then toasted for Odin and left the party.

There are even hammer/cross hybrid designs, like the Wolf Cross originally found in Foss, Iceland:


(Modern replica, obviously)

Tias
May 25, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Just realized I didn't reply to these

Xiahou Dun posted:

Yeah I'm immediately thinking of things like Candomble and Voudon and wondering about parallels/differences.

I was sworn to secrecy about a particular persons journey into heathenism and so can't go into detail, but suffice to say that there are a nonzero number of heathens who started out as candomblé devotees who realized they had devoted themselves to an aesir or vanir or an aspect of said god and grew from there.

Cyrano4747 posted:

The recent talk about modern influences in paganism got me thinking, especially the comment about people drawing poo poo from Marvel movies:

How do modern pagans react to the liberal use of their religion in pop culture? Marvel's Thor is kind of a mind gently caress when you think about it through that lens. Like, I'm trying to imagine Jesus or Ram or Buddha as a no bullshit member of the Justice League or something. If you stop and think about it, there are a bunch. Everything form TV shows to movies to video games. I mean, culture isn't exactly lacking in judeo-christian reference (Diablo is kind of, uh, influenced by christian hell iconography although it's less direct than something like Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice) but it never seems as direct as Thor, a god recognized as part of a divine pantheon in this very thread, punching a giant purple Space Hitler on the big screen.

Most have a quite relaxed approach to it. You'll take what you can get of positive portrayals, really? And again, and this is important, there is no one or right 'asatru' belief. Many (if not all?) heathens have been informed in their belief by a particular cultural portrayal of norse gods and concepts, even though most don't incorporate the actual comic book lore into their canon. I think I've mentioned it before, but like most Danes my first real love of old norse culture and myth came with Peter Larsen's Valhalla comics. I don't know if they were ever translated, but if so I ever so highly recommend them to anyone, even those not interested in anything but good comics.

Tias fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Mar 3, 2020

Ataxerxes
Dec 1, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?


Tias posted:

I think I've mentioned it before, but like most Danes my first real love of old norse culture and myth came with Peter Larsen's Valhalla comics. I don't know if they were ever translated, but if so I ever so highly recommend them to anyone, even those not interested in anything but good comics.

At least some of these were translated into Finnish. And yes, they are great. The one where Thor and some others pretend to be mortal heroes, "Odin makes a bet" or something like that.

Tias
May 25, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Ataxerxes posted:

At least some of these were translated into Finnish. And yes, they are great. The one where Thor and some others pretend to be mortal heroes, "Odin makes a bet" or something like that.

My all-time favorite moment in that series!

"No thanks, they gave me a better offer - there I get to play the harp!"

Ataxerxes
Dec 1, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?


Tias posted:

My all-time favorite moment in that series!

"No thanks, they gave me a better offer - there I get to play the harp!"

Yeah, and the Conan-lookalike that makes Odin go "nope, that dude looks too dangerous and independent".

Tias
May 25, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Mul dem, Mørdur

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
DESPITE CLAIMING TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT LANGUAGES I CAN'T COMMUNICATE WORTH A DAMN

Tias posted:




I was sworn to secrecy about a particular persons journey into heathenism and so can't go into detail, but suffice to say that there are a nonzero number of heathens who started out as candomblé devotees who realized they had devoted themselves to an aesir or vanir or an aspect of said god and grew from there.


I know just enough about this kind of thing to be respectful of how people want it to be secret so I'm not expecting anything. But if you feel comfortable (and think your sources would too) in giving any broad generalities I'd be fascinated. I know it's a touchy topic so if the answer is, "Nah, I can't without being a dick", I totally understand.

Also can I ask what your shiny new av and text are about? I can read exactly enough of the text to come up with what are probably some very wrong guesses. The part I can definitely tell is whatever wood they're working with in the pic is great, and assuming the picture's a bit off and it's level/flush, they did a really good job.

Tias
May 25, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


The broad generalities is that I know a guy who has practiced Candomblé for ages, and was initiated to a norse God through Candomblé. He does not identify as heathen last I checked, but rather a 'norse animist' (which is where I, as a shamanist practicioner who's more into spirits and Vanir than the Aesir, also lie). He is still into south american religion, but has entered the heathen world in this roundabout fashion.

It is stanza 77. of the Hávamál, in which Odin explains the state of the world. It is an important passage in the norse mindset, and if often quoted and used in ritual.

Directly translated, it means

Die can wealth, die can friends
You yourself shall also die.
One thing I know that shall never die
Judgment over the deeds of the dead.

Essentially, we're moribound, but if we live well our life and good deeds will be spoken of and bring reknown to our lineage. It is the best thing a norse heathen can strive for!

I think I actually tilted the picture a bit to make it more eerie, but I have the original at home and can post it tomorrow.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Håvamål in general is full of good practical advice. Like don't drink too much and make a fool out of yourself and treat guests good.

Alhazred fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Mar 4, 2020

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Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
DESPITE CLAIMING TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT LANGUAGES I CAN'T COMMUNICATE WORTH A DAMN

That's a drat good quote.

And I assumed it was taken at a Dutch angle rather than the structure just happening to be perfectly off from true. Does the building have ritual or religious significance? I'm assuming it's not just a really boss looking roof which is all I'm getting from my ignorant perspective.

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