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Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


We were finally allowed to gather >25 in Denmark, so we held a great spring equinox blůt. Sacrifice was made to Frej, Freja, Njord and Odin to entice the days to get longer, and to gain a good harvest. Many beseechments were made to Ejr and Odin and the spirits to end Covid-19 and bring all life together. Then a lot of mead was downed and we sang weird swedish murder ballads by the fire. 10/10 would frolic again!

Chaosfeather posted:

Thanks to this thread I was able to recognize some douchebag for what they probably are on the freeway. Their red sports car had a huge eagle decal on the front window and a giant decal of The Vegvisr on the back. I was able to glare at this probable rear end in a top hat as he sped by and imagine myself keying that fancy car. I could be wrong and it was a well-meaning practicing Heathen, but this was an extremely white dudebro looking person in the driver's seat, so I doubt it.

Lol, sounds like a brodin

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Witching Hour
Nov 7, 2019


I'm sorry if you mentioned this and I missed it. How do you/others in your faith feel about people that follow reconstructed versions of other old polytheistic religions (Greek, Egyptian, etc)? Do people feel like all of the old religions still have valid power and influence today, or some, or just the one?

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



My view and the one I've seen others have is that if my reconstructed practice is valid, than any other is equally valid.

The only time I'd say somebody's practice isn't valid would be based on the quality and soundness of their reconstruction. If they're claiming something is reconstructed but don't have the evidence to support it, then I'd argue that isn't valid, just on academic grounds.

However, there are also a lot of people who lean into the neo- part of neo-paganism and don't try to say their practice is a reconstruction. That's fine as well. I'd never say there's a problem with that as long as they acknowledge the neo.


Rant about unsound reconstruction and how it's effected Wicca that you can feel free to ignore:

This is also my main complaint with Wicca in its original form. Gardner and his compatriots claimed that Wicca was the inheritor of a long tradition of secret witchcraft cults in Europe going back centuries or possibly even millenia. They got this from the work of a particular anthropologist, even. The problem is that that work is fundamentally unsound and his little foundation in actual material evidence. I've seen many Wiccans have made an effort to embrace the neo label and to move away from this claim of either reconstruction or being an actual unbroken line of practice. I fully support that.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


I don't know man. What I do is as much neo-heathenry as recon, considering how little we actually have to reconstruct from. If you look at the first or second page, I believe I posted a statistic of how many heathens feel they are carrying on an original tradition. Phoneposting on the go rn, but I can dig it up later.

E: top of this post:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3914359&userid=136835#post502500539

Witching Hour posted:

I'm sorry if you mentioned this and I missed it. How do you/others in your faith feel about people that follow reconstructed versions of other old polytheistic religions (Greek, Egyptian, etc)? Do people feel like all of the old religions still have valid power and influence today, or some, or just the one?

Imo the power of other gods are uncomfirmed, but likely. I don't necessarily discount the power of the judeo-christian god either, considering its influence.

Tias fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Mar 25, 2021

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Tias posted:

Imo the power of other gods are uncomfirmed, but likely. I don't necessarily discount the power of the judeo-christian god either, considering its influence.

Does this ever lead to a form of syncreticism?

That is, the Norse, and the Greek, and the Christian god (and presumably others) are all considered valid?

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



Yeah Iíve met a lot of syncretic neo-pagans

Boksi
Jan 11, 2016


Tias posted:

We were finally allowed to gather >25 in Denmark, so we held a great spring equinox blůt. Sacrifice was made to Frej, Freja, Njord and Odin to entice the days to get longer, and to gain a good harvest. Many beseechments were made to Ejr and Odin and the spirits to end Covid-19 and bring all life together. Then a lot of mead was downed and we sang weird swedish murder ballads by the fire. 10/10 would frolic again!

Probably should've focused your beseechments on Snotra, given that the greatest obstacle to ending Covid is still the ůsnotr leaders of men and not the disease itself.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Cessna posted:

Does this ever lead to a form of syncreticism?

That is, the Norse, and the Greek, and the Christian god (and presumably others) are all considered valid?
There is at least one historic example of syncreticism:
When Rollo died he gave 100 pounds of gold to the church and 100 prisoners of war to Odin.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


I think at least one in this thread identifies as 'christopagan', which I assume is a syncretic construct.

There's definitely syncretism nowadays, and we know it happened back when the north was christianized.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

what are the odds that more direct source material might come to light?

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



Thereís always the chance thereís another manuscript like the Codex Regius floating around in some library, I suppose. The most likely form it would take would be a similar collection of old poetry, written after the end of the Viking Age. I donít know how likely it will be to find any Viking Age manuscripts.

There are ongoing archaeological excavations that could shed more light on the material culture. Things like more rune sticks or personal charms. Thereís one excavation happening right now on one of the Danish islands that includes an old temple. I was going to try to join that one for my summer field school this year but the pandemic and all got in the way of that.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


This place? https://www.tv2east.dk/guldborgsund...zLl_MhtEI6-YnZc

It rankles when you or, well, anyone, uses the term 'temple'. It is a -possibility- that this was a cultic place, but it extremely hard to be certain of anything at this point.

Anyway, you should definitely come to Denmark and chill, possibilities permitting. Southern Falster has a lot of great nature and is close to Germany.

Bilirubin posted:

what are the odds that more direct source material might come to light?

Slim to none, particularly for the age period as Internet Wizard says.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



This one https://ifrglobal.org/program/denmark-sorte-muld/ (sorry if this is the same location, Danish isnít one of my languages)

Sorry if I misspoke, I only called it a temple because thatís what this page described it as.

Iíll be doing a shorter stateside field school this year and then possibly applying for one of the Danish locations for next summer. Though Iím also planning on visiting Iceland next spring as a graduation present to myself before I start my graduate program.

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-


The archaeology chat got me wondering if you know anything interesting about earlier North Germanic beliefs and their influence on the Norse ones (which I understand to be originating roughly during the first millenium CE). I have a Danish archaeologist friend who is interested in Bronze Age bog bodies, and there is speculation that items found on some of those bodies have religious or magical significance. I guess there are not really contemporary written attestations from earlier periods so it's pretty tough to reconstruct their beliefs. They also told me that Denmark is an unusually good place to be an archaeologist, with plenty of paying work available, because almost any construction is required to have a preliminary archaeological survey just in case there is anything good hidden in the ground. That seems pretty cool if it's correct!

big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Apr 1, 2021

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



There are some Roman writings that talk about the Germanic practices and gods, but Iím not very familiar with them. Theyíre also written from an outsiderís perspective so theyíre not ideal.

There are inscriptions from that period, everything written in Elder Futhark is from around then, but no manuscripts or books as far as I know.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Internet Wizard posted:

There are some Roman writings that talk about the Germanic practices and gods, but Iím not very familiar with them. Theyíre also written from an outsiderís perspective so theyíre not ideal.


Probably the most reliable source is Ahmad ibn Fadlan's eyewitness account. But considering it only describes one society (the rus) it's not ideal either.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



Alhazred posted:

Probably the most reliable source is Ahmad ibn Fadlan's eyewitness account. But considering it only describes one society (the rus) it's not ideal either.

ibn Fadlanís account of the ďRusĒ (considered by most to be misnamed Scandinavians last time I checked) is Viking age and a few centuries later than big scary monsters was interested in. It is a great description of Viking age practices and inspired a couple of scenes in season 1 of the History channel show, including the nose blowing.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

Internet Wizard posted:

ibn Fadlanís account of the ďRusĒ (considered by most to be misnamed Scandinavians last time I checked) is Viking age and a few centuries later than big scary monsters was interested in. It is a great description of Viking age practices and inspired a couple of scenes in season 1 of the History channel show, including the nose blowing.

True, but remember, its also an outsider account, and one where ibn Fadlan is specifically contrasting the "barbarity" of the Vikings to the enlightenment of Islam. So he stresses their filthiness and their use of alcohol and practice of having sex in public and general immodesty and human sacrifice and such.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Epicurius posted:

True, but remember, its also an outsider account, and one where ibn Fadlan is specifically contrasting the "barbarity" of the Vikings to the enlightenment of Islam. So he stresses their filthiness and their use of alcohol and practice of having sex in public and general immodesty and human sacrifice and such.

It is also a description of the rus society, it's far from certain that every viking society had the same customs and beliefs. For example, Ibn Fadlan writes that they burn the body and make fun of Fadlan because his custom is to bury bodies in the ground. But in Scandinavia there's a lot of graves found with buried bodies.

Weka
May 5, 2019

And if you gaze long into an abyss, you will say `look, no ring.`

Internet Wizard posted:

ibn Fadlanís account of the ďRusĒ (considered by most to be misnamed Scandinavians last time I checked) is Viking age and a few centuries later than big scary monsters was interested in. It is a great description of Viking age practices and inspired a couple of scenes in season 1 of the History channel show, including the nose blowing.

I thought Rus was an endonym? Also I'm pretty sure the majority of the inhabitants of the Rus society weren't ethnic Scandinavians just the upper stratas.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


The Rus was ruled by Rurik( a geat) and his descendants, but I doubt most of them got to intermarry with scandinavians.

Internet Wizard posted:

This one https://ifrglobal.org/program/denmark-sorte-muld/ (sorry if this is the same location, Danish isnít one of my languages)

Sorry if I misspoke, I only called it a temple because thatís what this page described it as.

Iíll be doing a shorter stateside field school this year and then possibly applying for one of the Danish locations for next summer. Though Iím also planning on visiting Iceland next spring as a graduation present to myself before I start my graduate program.

Hardly your fault, the Danish leader claims it to be as well, but the only piece of evidence seem to be a number of golden statuettes. To be fair, this could mean we're dealing with a god-place, but it may as well not.

Well, let me know! I'll take you to see Copenhagen if you swing by on your way to the island.

big scary monsters posted:

The archaeology chat got me wondering if you know anything interesting about earlier North Germanic beliefs and their influence on the Norse ones (which I understand to be originating roughly during the first millenium CE). I have a Danish archaeologist friend who is interested in Bronze Age bog bodies, and there is speculation that items found on some of those bodies have religious or magical significance. I guess there are not really contemporary written attestations from earlier periods so it's pretty tough to reconstruct their beliefs. They also told me that Denmark is an unusually good place to be an archaeologist, with plenty of paying work available, because almost any construction is required to have a preliminary archaeological survey just in case there is anything good hidden in the ground. That seems pretty cool if it's correct!

Can they opine on which bog bodies and why? I think they should buy an account, I'd love to talk to them here!

Egtved girl has a beautiful bracteate belt buckle with swirling patterns that could be of religious significance, but is more likely some regular bling. I believe we have a really old one found with burnished copper dye over their body, indicating ritual of some sort.

That is correct. Doing a stint as a junior archeologist is more common than other places, for the same reason.

Weka
May 5, 2019

And if you gaze long into an abyss, you will say `look, no ring.`

The pattern on that belt seems very reminiscent of some minoan designs. I wonder if it's a coincidence or if the art style came with the bronze technology.


1390-1370 (well atleast the burial)


1600-1500 bc

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


It's very popular on all kinds of bronze age stuff from Denmark. Last time I checked consensus was it came from modern day France, but that was many years ago.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



Weka posted:

I thought Rus was an endonym? Also I'm pretty sure the majority of the inhabitants of the Rus society weren't ethnic Scandinavians just the upper stratas.

From what Iíve read, most scholars of Fadlanís work believe the people he called the Rus were actually Varangians. Itís tricky trying to match up groups like this, especially when theyíre so foreign to the writer that theyíre probably getting details wrong. Itís possible Iím completely off base here, Iíve actually spent more time reading Fadlan and other Arab travel accounts than the other side of things until very recently.

Tias posted:

Well, let me know! I'll take you to see Copenhagen if you swing by on your way to the island.


Whether or not I end up doing any work over there, Iím definitely planning on spending some time visiting Copenhagen and the surrounding area.

A little off topic for the thread but related, is there a Scandinavian language you feel is more useful than any of the others for general travel/getting around? Iíd study Danish but one of my professors (Matthias Nordvig, who is also Danish) said to never study Danish because itís a nonsense language.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

On the archaeology tangent (which I love) my clickbaity FB feed suggestion brought up discussion of this: https://www.ancient-origins.net/art...XyBdYoE31DTVFiM

Looking at the designs this seems very likely a shamanistic treatise written in silver. It also appears a bit syncretic between Germanic and Roman belief systems. What might your thoughts be?

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Bilirubin posted:

It also appears a bit syncretic between Germanic and Roman belief systems. What might your thoughts be?

From what I read the nordic nisse descends from the roman Lar Familiares.

Caustic Soda
Nov 1, 2010


Internet Wizard posted:

A little off topic for the thread but related, is there a Scandinavian language you feel is more useful than any of the others for general travel/getting around? Iíd study Danish but one of my professors (Matthias Nordvig, who is also Danish) said to never study Danish because itís a nonsense language.

Dane here. Honestly I think a Scandinavian language is more nice-to-have than need-to-have, unless you'd like to settle in Scandinavia. There should be more than enough english speakers to get by, though some with rather strong accents.

If you do want to learn, I'm not sure what to reccomend, but hese are some of the factors to consider: Swedish has the most total speakers, both as a first language for Swedes and Fenno-Swedes, and IIRC also as a second language for the rest of the Finns. Norwegian has the fewest speakers, however if you can speak Oslo-Norwegian (BokmŚl), you'll find Danes and Swedes have an easier time understanding you, compared to if you try to talk to a Dane in Swedish or vice versa. Danish has the second-most speakers, and is also spoken as a second language in Greenland and the Faroes. IIRC you can also take it as a second/third language in Iceland, but I doubt people practice it as much, since Iceland is independent and the other two aren't.

Danish is a nonsense language in the sense that it has a ton of irregular verbs and declensions and silent letters and so on, but then so does (especially British) English. I've been told that our sounds are also harder to learn than Swedish/Norwegian, but that is 100% anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


Internet Wizard posted:

From what Iíve read, most scholars of Fadlanís work believe the people he called the Rus were actually Varangians. Itís tricky trying to match up groups like this, especially when theyíre so foreign to the writer that theyíre probably getting details wrong. Itís possible Iím completely off base here, Iíve actually spent more time reading Fadlan and other Arab travel accounts than the other side of things until very recently.

Varangian is just the name given by the Greeks and Kievan Rus' to the non-Rus scandinavians ruling the Kievan Rus.

quote:

Whether or not I end up doing any work over there, Iím definitely planning on spending some time visiting Copenhagen and the surrounding area.

I'll still be posting whenever that happens, so shoot me a message!

quote:

A little off topic for the thread but related, is there a Scandinavian language you feel is more useful than any of the others for general travel/getting around? Iíd study Danish but one of my professors (Matthias Nordvig, who is also Danish) said to never study Danish because itís a nonsense language.

Well, Nordvig is great guy and an interesting writer, but in this case probably a little flavored by living, working and thinking in English most of the time. I'd recommend learning Norwegian - more speakers, and much easier to learn Danish and Swedish from. Learning Danish first is a fool's errand, and I say this as someone who balls out loves the Danish language.

Bilirubin posted:

On the archaeology tangent (which I love) my clickbaity FB feed suggestion brought up discussion of this: https://www.ancient-origins.net/art...XyBdYoE31DTVFiM

Looking at the designs this seems very likely a shamanistic treatise written in silver. It also appears a bit syncretic between Germanic and Roman belief systems. What might your thoughts be?

I doubt it's necessarily shamanistic, we have too little info to go on. I don't know who the Sweatman guy the cite is, but he seems to be making stuff up. Even the stuff about Cernunnos seems more likely.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

Caustic Soda posted:

Dane here. Honestly I think a Scandinavian language is more nice-to-have than need-to-have, unless you'd like to settle in Scandinavia. There should be more than enough english speakers to get by, though some with rather strong accents.

If you do want to learn, I'm not sure what to reccomend, but hese are some of the factors to consider: Swedish has the most total speakers, both as a first language for Swedes and Fenno-Swedes, and IIRC also as a second language for the rest of the Finns. Norwegian has the fewest speakers, however if you can speak Oslo-Norwegian (BokmŚl), you'll find Danes and Swedes have an easier time understanding you, compared to if you try to talk to a Dane in Swedish or vice versa. Danish has the second-most speakers, and is also spoken as a second language in Greenland and the Faroes. IIRC you can also take it as a second/third language in Iceland, but I doubt people practice it as much, since Iceland is independent and the other two aren't.

Danish is a nonsense language in the sense that it has a ton of irregular verbs and declensions and silent letters and so on, but then so does (especially British) English. I've been told that our sounds are also harder to learn than Swedish/Norwegian, but that is 100% anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt.

Sj would like a word with you

As a native Anglophone I've been working on Swedish on and off for the past few months. Most of my family come from there (although we have one family from Norway) and I have active research collaborations with folks in Uppsala so I'm there on occasion. As a child I remember my elders (including some of the original immigrants because we tend to live so goddamned long) speaking Swedish and was taught some by my grandmother. The language was lost with my parents generation sadly. loving boomers. That said I never felt out of place when visiting Sweden even without my rudimentary conversational Svenska as most seem quite conversant in English. I have French as a second language and a smattering of German and Swedish seems a nice compromise between my other language competencies and it is going reasonably easily.

Now to blatantly rip off a post from the scandi thread on Danish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk#t=120s

Bilirubin fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 3, 2021

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

Tias posted:


I doubt it's necessarily shamanistic, we have too little info to go on. I don't know who the Sweatman guy the cite is, but he seems to be making stuff up. Even the stuff about Cernunnos seems more likely.

Yeah I was just going by the iconography, the scholarly merit of AncientOrigins is not really existent

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-


Tias posted:

Can they opine on which bog bodies and why? I think they should buy an account, I'd love to talk to them here!

Egtved girl has a beautiful bracteate belt buckle with swirling patterns that could be of religious significance, but is more likely some regular bling. I believe we have a really old one found with burnished copper dye over their body, indicating ritual of some sort.

That is correct. Doing a stint as a junior archeologist is more common than other places, for the same reason.
I'm sorry to say I don't remember which bodies specifically, if I recall they were specifically interested in female bog bodies and were trying to figure out from the artifacts she was buried with whether a particular woman had been some kind of religious practitioner or just wealthy and well-travelled. When I was in last in Denmark some years ago I visited Moesgaard Museum which now has Grauballe Man and is a pretty cool place in general, it looked like they also occasionally do viking reenactments on the grounds in collaboration with the nearby University of Aarhus archaelogy department.

On language chat, I've found Norwegian not too bad to pick up as an Anglophone, but I already spoke German and conversational Dutch, which helped a lot. After a few years in Norway reading Danish is pretty easy but the spoken pronunciation is extremely tough. Spoken Swedish is easier to understand but looks weird to me written down. But then there are a million dialects even just in Norwegian so sometimes I meet Norwegians I just flat can't understand as well.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


To this day I find Swedish infuriatingly hard to parse. It's easier written, but I still don't have the vocabulary to understand what's going on.

Anyway, this language and scandinavia chat is all well and good, but may be better brought to the Skandi thread, where we also have a discord where skandi goons will help you learn our weird languages.

Tias fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Apr 4, 2021

Weka
May 5, 2019

And if you gaze long into an abyss, you will say `look, no ring.`

Tias posted:

Varangian is just the name given by the Greeks and Kievan Rus' to the non-Rus scandinavians ruling the Kievan Rus.

So in The Tale of Bygone Years aka the Primary Chronicle of the Kievan Rus, Rurik is described as a Varangian and as a Rus. Varangian as you say was a Greek term and Rus seems to have been a Finnic one, whether identical in meaning to or as a sub category of Varangian I'm not sure. Of course ethnic groups change and wiki tells me a couple of centuries later the Slavicized upper classes were called Rus and the identifiably Scandinavians were called some variant of Varangian.

Thanks for the tip re wave patterns and France too.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Weka posted:

So in The Tale of Bygone Years aka the Primary Chronicle of the Kievan Rus, Rurik is described as a Varangian and as a Rus. Varangian as you say was a Greek term and Rus seems to have been a Finnic one, whether identical in meaning to or as a sub category of Varangian I'm not sure. Of course ethnic groups change and wiki tells me a couple of centuries later the Slavicized upper classes were called Rus and the identifiably Scandinavians were called some variant of Varangian.

Thanks for the tip re wave patterns and France too.

The brits on the other hand just called every vaguely norse person a "dane".

Martin
Jan 17, 2004

All I know in life is how to pour whiskey and run my mouth off

Dinosaur Gum

Tias posted:

Yeah, Scandinavia is, uh, polarised

Case in point, a whole new runic alphabet was discovered in the recent past because it was used by a bunch of Swedes so isolated no one even bothered to talk to them to find out about their language use.

This was way back in the thread, but I actually grew up like 20 minutes from this place and Iíve met the oldies who still spoke that dialect. Itís pretty loving fantastic, it feels completely disconnected from Swedish.
Iím from a small town nearby that also have a old timey kind of dialect called ĒOrsa-mŚlĒ (Orsa is the small town and mŚl means a kind of dialect) that I kind of understand even tho I canít speak it. ńlvdals-mŚl (the dialekt from the article) is just another language!

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

Martin posted:

This was way back in the thread, but I actually grew up like 20 minutes from this place and Iíve met the oldies who still spoke that dialect. Itís pretty loving fantastic, it feels completely disconnected from Swedish.
Iím from a small town nearby that also have a old timey kind of dialect called ĒOrsa-mŚlĒ (Orsa is the small town and mŚl means a kind of dialect) that I kind of understand even tho I canít speak it. ńlvdals-mŚl (the dialekt from the article) is just another language!

That's amazing.

Has their folklore been documented?

Martin
Jan 17, 2004

All I know in life is how to pour whiskey and run my mouth off

Dinosaur Gum

Bilirubin posted:

That's amazing.

Has their folklore been documented?

Iím far from knowledgeable, I just grew up close! But as far as I understand, the culture and lore wasnít really that different from the rest of Sweden, just that their language never really evolved in the same way as the rest of the country due to isolation.
Googling a bit thereís actually a wiki in English about the language which gave me some insight that I never had

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfdalian

Never really understood the impact of this on historical research, especially languages until now. They were just our weird neighbors that had elders that talked funny.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

Martin posted:

Iím far from knowledgeable, I just grew up close! But as far as I understand, the culture and lore wasnít really that different from the rest of Sweden, just that their language never really evolved in the same way as the rest of the country due to isolation.
Googling a bit thereís actually a wiki in English about the language which gave me some insight that I never had

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfdalian

Never really understood the impact of this on historical research, especially languages until now. They were just our weird neighbors that had elders that talked funny.

Cool.

Actually, I would be keen to get recommendations for good books on scandi folklore. Poetic Eddas is on the list already--I have not read them in many years other than the bastardisation that Neil Gaiman shat out not too long ago. More along the lines of the unabridged Brothers Grimm

Weka
May 5, 2019

And if you gaze long into an abyss, you will say `look, no ring.`

Alhazred posted:

The brits on the other hand just called every vaguely norse person a "dane".

Nah.
Wicing (viking) was used in old English although it disappeared in middle English (post norman conquest).
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/wicing

Some British historian, a monastic iirc, referred to two curses or plagues or something on England, the red and the black, in reference to different viking raiders, which I atleast interpreted as Danish and Norwegian. I couldn't find the quote but I did find this, which suggests the vast majority of viking settlers in England where Danish. Please ignore the weird racial essentialism.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/16/dark-hair-was-common-among-vikings-genetic-study-confirms

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Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


There's a paywall, but yeah, some vikings definitely claimed to be 'Danes' and to come from the 'Dania', which we now think is in southern Sweden.

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