Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



excellent work on the OP there.


Is this a good place to ask about non-dual experiences?

Do the more esoteric buddhisims bring in "tricks" to advance toward enlightenment?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



Paramemetic posted:

Great place up ask about non-dual experiences.

Cool, thanks.


I think Iíve experienced ego loss on psychedelics before, even when I was younger I experienced something on mushrooms that later I described as if I had become what I was looking at. But Iím not sure if these are the same. On a different psychedelic trip I experienced realising that everything was made of the same thing - consciousness

But as much as I think I get what a non dual experience is, I certainly canít dial it in, which makes me ask some questions:

Will it be obvious when or if itís happening? Is it possible someone experiences it all the time and doesnít realise. Itís not just ďzoning outĒ?

Do thoughts still happen?

From a cognitive point of view, whatís happening to all the mental processes that seem to have stopped or been bypassed?

Does it breed benefit outside of itself?

Is it pure contentment?

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



Nessus posted:

I apologize for not having answers for you, echi,

how dare you

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



Iím joking! I was just surprised to see you apologise for not being able to answer them because, well, I didnít expect you to!

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



Nessus posted:

In the sense of the ethical systems, I do not believe there are great gulfs between Buddhist moral philosophy and Christian moral philosophy. I do think that there are aspects of the narrative of Jesus's life that conflict with aspects of the dharma, mostly involving Christ getting furious a few times and letting it rule his actions.

I'm inclined to believe this is more to do with humans taking the good from the bible and not the bad, especially as time went on, rather than pointing to the bible and saying this is a source of morals that is not entirely different from buddhist ethics. I mean, there's not a gulf between any moral philosophy that has been widely held I'm sure.

Most of the New Testament is just warbling stories are rambling. I was a Christian for a good decade or so, and after leaving the church, what a revelation to understand that the bible wasn't the writings of God, because bending all those ill-fitting puzzle pieces into one picture took a lot of mental gymnastics.

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



I'm still intrigued by non-dual mindfulness because I am struggling to get there. I wonder if maybe I have experienced it, perhaps it's even common, but because I am not being "amazed" by it, it doesn't stand out. Is that possible that I am merely overlooking it?

Can I ask, it really feels like there are different perspectives within different buddhist school or what not, of the existence of what secularists would call a "metaphysical" world, rainbow body? inter-life reincarnation etc.. are these truths discovered from meditation, or concepts passed down through tradition?

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



A Typical Goon posted:

Iíve had a satori experience when completely sober after a particular bout of insomnia and intense meditation. It was one of the most amazing and peaceful experiences Iíve ever had, something I truly believe Iíll remember on my death bed. If I had died that morning I would have been perfectly content with my life and my place in life. It was utter serenity. My psychedelic experience was...not like that. It was utterly loving mind blowing insane. There is just such a difference between an intellectual understanding of nonduality and actually experiencing nonduality. If you had had the experience I donít think itís possible to overlook it.

Iíll stop talking about this if the thread thinks it off topic, but reading the OP he talks about how in Tibetan Buddhism they use Ďmagicí to try and short cut the enlightenment process, so I was curious as to what the Vajrayana tradition made of psychedelics

Thank you for that. I had heard stories of people who have apparently experienced non dualism and walk away with a underwhelmed vibe, this is posited as a reason to avoid showing people nondualism too early.

I wonder if some of that ďmagicĒ is stuff like the pointing out instruction. Iíve heard of a number of ways of attempting this, but nothing obvious occurs. So I assume I am missing it. Iím lead to believe it may initially be experienced as a glimpse, so I also wonder if I am getting it but missing it.

🤷‍♂️

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



what part of it requires the leap of faith?

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



NikkolasKing posted:

Karma and rebirth. I'm open to the idea but can I say for certain that I think my mental stream or whatever term you want to use for it will survive after my body dies? No. That can't be proved so far as I'm aware, any more than a Christian soul can be proved.

Iím not sure where I got this from but so far it makes sense to me but, rebirth is something that occurs very often.

A ďlifeĒ is just one version of you that appears in consciousness as an ego and the experience is simply subjectivity itself, and this life rises, takes centre stage, and then gives way to another life. These lives have different wants etc.

An example would be one life occurring while someone having sex but then an orgasm occurs, and that life has now been replaced with another that no longer desires sex. ever feel like a different person immediately after orgasm?

and careful mindfulness can make this rebirth cycle clear because youíll end up seeing that the sense of subjectivity is simply another appearance in consciousness rather than a fundamental truth proving that ďyouĒ are a definite thing.

and escaping the cycle means living outside of the constant diving-back-in and being the ego.

Thatís my understanding. I can see the truth in it, although Iím not good enough at mindfulness to perceive it directly nor escape the sense of subjectivity (or view subjectivity as an appearance within consciousness rather than experienced consciousness through the lens of subjectivity)


And Karma.. thatís just like, you kill a dog and later the dogs owner comes and kills you. Itís not metaphysical itís just cause and effect..


🤷‍♂️

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



Is the notion of rebirth beyond our physical body dogma in Buddhism or just certain schools?


If, the consciousness that I experiencing somehow existed before my birth and/or will continue after my death, then either there is evidence for that and it doesnít require a leap of faith, or there is no evidence and there is a leap of faith. Since Iím resting on no evidence, thatís also zero reason to even bother thinking about it, IMO anyway. It may be interesting on some level to imagine metaphysical scenarios but not as interesting as anything actually available in our actual experience. At least for me

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



Can someone tell me (because I don't know how to ask google this) about the kind of aesthetic surrounding buddhist stuff, especially tantric stuff.

Does that aesthetic arise from some kinds of meditative practices, or is it simply local art trends?

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



Paramemetic posted:

I only know of it as absolutely as an ebook, where it was available on Google Play.

I can do a big ol post on the aesthetics of Tibetan Buddhism next time I'm at a keyboard. The short of it is basically the combination of cultures and the encoding of meditative instructions in art. Different aspects of the deity represent different characteristics which then we in turn internalize. The dudes are jacked and often terrifying because in a warlord culture if you're gonna defeat ignorance you should definitely consider doing it in an extremely badass way with a flaming sword and you should definitely be totally ripped as hell.

Sick. I am interested, as it also seems Tibetan buddhism seems to lean on non-dual awareness in a way it doesnít seem other schools do. Thatís what it seems like from the outside anyway.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



The NT also introduces eternal punishment so maybe the strict rules are better if at least death is the end of it.

Depending on the sermon of the week, I used to walk away from church either feeling quite good about life or scared as heck about gods wrath.

What if Jesusís grace only covered each sin once? If you continue to sin, ask forgiveness, repeat sin, thereís scripture that implies you run out of grace.

And what if youíve committed the unforgivable sin?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply