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Aesis
Oct 9, 2012
Article 21(4)
Neither speech nor the press shall violate the honor or
rights of other persons nor undermine public morals or
social ethics or harass the women in Customer Service.


You can give some items to civilian scouts or workers outside settlements and safe houses if they need something. If u get close to them theyíll sometimes have item they want indicated above head. I gave a solar calculator away last time

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Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



Iím always thiiiis close to selling all my trinkets because who cares but I also still only have like 4 gold necklaces and LIKE gently caress Iím giving those up.

HatJudge
Oct 11, 2012

Not a hat


Fun Shoe

[] Give battery
"Thanks agent. You saved my life"

Digital Osmosis
Nov 10, 2002

Smile, Citizen! Happiness is Mandatory.



Hey so, uh, is this game good again?

More specifically: while there's a lot I liked about the latest gear overhaul that dropped with Warlords I found the difficulty way overtuned and the progress way to slow - especially since it feels like it assumes you're at max SHD level to do anything harder than "hard" and drops terrible gear if you're doing anything easier than heroic. They tweaked the difficulty a bit and I found it a little better but still quickly lost interest. What's the state of the difficulty now? I solo, am okay at the game, and would ideally love it to be somewhere closer to the mindless-zen speedrunning that it was before Warlords (while still letting me advance) than the brutal MMO-trinity-premades-required the devs seem to be going for.

Inspector Hound
Jul 14, 2003





HatJudge posted:

[] Give battery
"Thanks agent. You saved my life"

Maybe it's a pacemaker battery

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012


Upset Trowel

Digital Osmosis posted:

Hey so, uh, is this game good again?

More specifically: while there's a lot I liked about the latest gear overhaul that dropped with Warlords I found the difficulty way overtuned and the progress way to slow - especially since it feels like it assumes you're at max SHD level to do anything harder than "hard" and drops terrible gear if you're doing anything easier than heroic. They tweaked the difficulty a bit and I found it a little better but still quickly lost interest. What's the state of the difficulty now? I solo, am okay at the game, and would ideally love it to be somewhere closer to the mindless-zen speedrunning that it was before Warlords (while still letting me advance) than the brutal MMO-trinity-premades-required the devs seem to be going for.

Scaling is still wonky, You basically can't set foot into challenging without a 4p set of some kind, and you need a good build with decent rolls to solo heroic, sadly.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002



People have figured out how to optimize post-WONY so when people were beating their heads against challenging then, you can walk through it with a reasonably-easy-to-create build now. No you can't just equip six random pieces and expect to shine, but that was never true. There are several build types I'd be happy to see in my squad, from skill cc to straight dps to debuff and tanking, etc.

If you only solo that does restrict the field, you're going to need to deal out damage. You won't be able to just deploy seekers and sleepwalk, but you will be able to crush it with reasonable-to-achieve setups.


Anyway, as an aside, I don't think the system ever expected max SHD level for anything above hard, it was a crutch a lot of people thought they needed but it was actually papering over bad builds. Many good builds now exist, and while SHD level definitely helps, it's not a requirement for any of them.

Psion fucked around with this message at 19:42 on May 18, 2020

MunchE
Sep 7, 2000
Hot Damn, I finally bought a custom title!

Digital Osmosis posted:

Hey so, uh, is this game good again?

More specifically: while there's a lot I liked about the latest gear overhaul that dropped with Warlords I found the difficulty way overtuned and the progress way to slow - especially since it feels like it assumes you're at max SHD level to do anything harder than "hard" and drops terrible gear if you're doing anything easier than heroic. They tweaked the difficulty a bit and I found it a little better but still quickly lost interest. What's the state of the difficulty now? I solo, am okay at the game, and would ideally love it to be somewhere closer to the mindless-zen speedrunning that it was before Warlords (while still letting me advance) than the brutal MMO-trinity-premades-required the devs seem to be going for.

So yeah - it turns out the week after a new expansion everyone's hastily thrown together junk builds and 15 reds x 4 strats didn't immediately translate to legendary wins on the first week.

But basically - yeah, if you want the game to be EZ mode, require no build synergy and let you easily solo. It's probably not the game for it. They're going for an MMO style shooter so refusing to group (which is super easy in this game) just deliberately gimps yourself. The problem being that before WONY any trash build could easily roll through everything on challenging which some people seemed to like but actually had me bored enough to stop playing the game. What's the point of getting better gear when my rando crap let me easily roll through whatever I wanted? Then I tried the raid and the difficulty went up 10x - it wasn't a ramp, it was a cliff. The game actually has progression now where difficulty gradually ramps up vs. being a straight cliff at end game.

It doesn't take a huge time investment to make a decent build and there are tons of viable builds (i have 8 loadouts and I think 5-6 of them are easily Heroic viable). You don't need to have like dedicated tank/support/dps roles but you need to either have some diversity in your group or if you're running all DPS they all need to actually be well equipped and good at the game. I matchmake into heroics fairly regularly and it's usually no problem with PUGs.

orange juche posted:

Scaling is still wonky, You basically can't set foot into challenging without a 4p set of some kind, and you need a good build with decent rolls to solo heroic, sadly.

Is that wonky though? They literally have 5 difficulty levels and people are saying it's "wonky" that you can't jump into the second highest one without actually making a decent build? Getting a 4 pc set of Hard Wired/Negotiators/Strikers/TP isn't exactly a tall order - I'm pretty sure you can craft hard wired, and the game gives you a piece of striker's for your first few shd levels so you've got a whole set.

BexGu
Jan 9, 2004

This fucking day....

Did any one else finish off the man hunt, kill Jupiter, and still miss some coms? It annoys me that in 18 out of 20.

Hyperactive
Mar 10, 2004

RICHARDS!

BexGu posted:

Did any one else finish off the man hunt, kill Jupiter, and still miss some coms? It annoys me that in 18 out of 20.
This is by design apparently? You have to do the Jupiter mission again. You got two coms the first time, one from each boss. You'll get the other two coms from them if you run the mission again. Just join someone else doing it or reset/toggle the Jupiter version of Roosevelt. Or the whole manhunt, go nuts.

If you're thinking, "Well, that's kinda dumb," it's because that's kinda dumb.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012


Upset Trowel

MunchE posted:

Is that wonky though? They literally have 5 difficulty levels and people are saying it's "wonky" that you can't jump into the second highest one without actually making a decent build? Getting a 4 pc set of Hard Wired/Negotiators/Strikers/TP isn't exactly a tall order - I'm pretty sure you can craft hard wired, and the game gives you a piece of striker's for your first few shd levels so you've got a whole set.

You can craft hard wired as soon as you hit 40 but you need hard wired mats to craft it, so hard wired is a chicken/egg problem, as you have to get pieces of hard wired to take apart to make it.

Right now I'm running a marksman build with Aces and 8s, Airaldi back and chest, and a decently rolled Paratrooper SVD. I single tap reds, double or triple tap anything else. It was easier to get Aces and Eights than it was to get pieces of hard wired to break down to craft.

I have an M1A for a secondary weapon, but honestly the M1A does less damage than the SVD due to the stacking marksman damage buffs and the fact that you can't get card flips for the 30% damage bonus while shooting with your M1A.

I like the feel of this build, but yeah I'm going to need to get better rolls and more synergy on the attributes, because I only have about 2.5-3 million DPS with my marksman rifle, which is enough to do challenging but heroic is still off the table.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 22:41 on May 18, 2020

UnknownMercenary
Oct 31, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


Challenging is honestly pretty forgiving now with the latest AI tweaks from 9.1. You can't sleepwalk through it like in year 1, but it's not as brutal as it was at WONY launch.

Gear sets are honestly a trap; outside of gimmicks like Pestilence True Patriot or a max headshot Aces build you're better off with high ends unless you're starting as a fresh level 40.

SHD levels are good boosts (and the red bonuses in particular are huge) but not mandatory. If you want to solo higher level content, a DPS build is pretty much mandatory. I've had limited success in solo with a sticky bomb/single seeker mine build on Heroic but the main limitations are tanks and rushers. Turrets are supposed to be really effective again as well with the latest AI tweaks but I haven't tried yet.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012


Upset Trowel

UnknownMercenary posted:

Challenging is honestly pretty forgiving now with the latest AI tweaks from 9.1. You can't sleepwalk through it like in year 1, but it's not as brutal as it was at WONY launch.

Gear sets are honestly a trap; outside of gimmicks like Pestilence True Patriot or a max headshot Aces build you're better off with high ends unless you're starting as a fresh level 40.

SHD levels are good boosts (and the red bonuses in particular are huge) but not mandatory. If you want to solo higher level content, a DPS build is pretty much mandatory. I've had limited success in solo with a sticky bomb/single seeker mine build on Heroic but the main limitations are tanks and rushers. Turrets are supposed to be really effective again as well with the latest AI tweaks but I haven't tried yet.

Turrets work really good for drawing aggro, though, and if you amp up your skill, a turret can do a ton of damage. To be honest though I don't really need it with the SVD because I can just tag the rushers in the feet to make them trip and then headshot them on the followup.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 23:08 on May 18, 2020

MunchE
Sep 7, 2000
Hot Damn, I finally bought a custom title!

orange juche posted:

You can craft hard wired as soon as you hit 40 but you need hard wired mats to craft it, so hard wired is a chicken/egg problem, as you have to get pieces of hard wired to take apart to make it.

Right now I'm running a marksman build with Aces and 8s, Airaldi back and chest, and a decently rolled Paratrooper SVD. I single tap reds, double or triple tap anything else. It was easier to get Aces and Eights than it was to get pieces of hard wired to break down to craft.

I have an M1A for a secondary weapon, but honestly the M1A does less damage than the SVD due to the stacking marksman damage buffs and the fact that you can't get card flips for the 30% damage bonus while shooting with your M1A.

I like the feel of this build, but yeah I'm going to need to get better rolls and more synergy on the attributes, because I only have about 2.5-3 million DPS with my marksman rifle, which is enough to do challenging but heroic is still off the table.

I had a ton of Hard Wired X components by the time I hit 30 just from random world drops. The components drop off bosses a bit more common than the pieces do.

UnknownMercenary posted:

Gear sets are honestly a trap; outside of gimmicks like Pestilence True Patriot or a max headshot Aces build you're better off with high ends unless you're starting as a fresh level 40.



I have a Negotiator's build that is my favorite DPS build actually - lots of utility being able to mark multiple targets and spread the damage around, gives you some mild AOE. Also some fun to be had with System Corruption synergizing with "bonus armor" talents but it seems mostly for PVP and not PVE. Striker's I'd agree you're better off doing something else and Tip of the Spear can eat a dick. My Ongoing Directive build is funish but def. not heroic viable as it sits. True Patriot set buff is great if you're doing support kind of stuff and I have 2 builds that use it. I think the usefulness of Pestilence on it isn't as high since they nerfed the White heal buff.

orange juche posted:

Turrets work really good for drawing aggro, though, and if you amp up your skill, a turret can do a ton of damage. To be honest though I don't really need it with the SVD because I can just tag the rushers in the feet to make them trip and then headshot them on the followup.

My first heroic ready build was Hard Wired with Seekers and an Assault Turret and it does a good job of keeping attention off of you. If Chonkers are less likely to kick my turret to death now it's likely even better, but I prefer the mayhem of the Mortar these days

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



I think the only thing in terms of builds thatís a trap that really shouldnít be is high armor/blue builds. Without something like the True Patriot set bonuses anything more than 2 blue rolls and youíve really crippled your damage when it comes to heroic and legendary. Blue roll tanks either need to be way tankier or have something that gives them advantages to rolling blue besides the shield.

With that kind of setup the high level game becomes more about managing your damage, enemies, and cover since you canít take a lot back.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012


Upset Trowel

MunchE posted:

I had a ton of Hard Wired X components by the time I hit 30 just from random world drops. The components drop off bosses a bit more common than the pieces do.

Oh yeah if you're starting off from nothing it might be easier, because they've adjusted the loot tables a bit since launch to make getting poo poo a bit easier. I was a pre-loot 2.0 person, and didn't have a massive pile of superseded set pieces or components.

Wamdoodle
May 15, 2007

Yes, it is what it looks like!

Grimey Drawer

MunchE posted:

My first heroic ready build was Hard Wired with Seekers and an Assault Turret and it does a good job of keeping attention off of you. If Chonkers are less likely to kick my turret to death now it's likely even better, but I prefer the mayhem of the Mortar these days

I wish I was better at aiming the Mortar. There was one guy I ran with that was a Mortar sniper but I'm just to clumsy with it. My Demo Specialization is the only one not at max level

Kibayasu posted:

I think the only thing in terms of builds thatís a trap that really shouldnít be is high armor/blue builds. Without something like the True Patriot set bonuses anything more than 2 blue rolls and youíve really crippled your damage when it comes to heroic and legendary. Blue roll tanks either need to be way tankier or have something that gives them advantages to rolling blue besides the shield.

With that kind of setup the high level game becomes more about managing your damage, enemies, and cover since you canít take a lot back.

All Blue cores stacked with Crit Chance and Crit Damage is starting to flood the DZ

Wamdoodle fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 19, 2020

UnknownMercenary
Oct 31, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


Wamdoodle posted:

All Blue cores stacked with Crit Chance and Crit Damage is starting to flood the DZ

Yeah it was already painfully obvious a couple weeks ago the direction the meta was going, with the proliferation of rapid healing True Patriot/Efficient Firewall builds. I have a hybrid 4 red/2 blue DZ build, but rogues running all blues and stacking crit isn't surprising. Armor doesn't get scaled down in the DZ, but gun damage does, so it's about who has enough armor and healing to outtank the other person. Basically turning into Div1 DZ meta now.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.


I just started playing this game recently, can someone give me a hint on how to find SHD caches in Warlords?

I can find them on the map easy enough but I'm having a hard time finding my way up to them, wherever they are. I found one where I needed to shoot down a hook then rappel up, but I'm not seeing similar hooks for other ones. I don't want to watch videos and spoil it but I'm wondering what kinds of things I'm looking for to get started

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Kibayasu posted:

Iím always thiiiis close to selling all my trinkets because who cares but I also still only have like 4 gold necklaces and LIKE gently caress Iím giving those up.
Disappointed you can't redeem five of them for some Flavor Flav-rear end clock.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





deep dish peat moss posted:

I just started playing this game recently, can someone give me a hint on how to find SHD caches in Warlords?

I can find them on the map easy enough but I'm having a hard time finding my way up to them, wherever they are. I found one where I needed to shoot down a hook then rappel up, but I'm not seeing similar hooks for other ones. I don't want to watch videos and spoil it but I'm wondering what kinds of things I'm looking for to get started

Based on experience solely in DC, look for doors where you need to find a spot to shoot the lock.

MunchE
Sep 7, 2000
Hot Damn, I finally bought a custom title!

deep dish peat moss posted:

I just started playing this game recently, can someone give me a hint on how to find SHD caches in Warlords?

I can find them on the map easy enough but I'm having a hard time finding my way up to them, wherever they are. I found one where I needed to shoot down a hook then rappel up, but I'm not seeing similar hooks for other ones. I don't want to watch videos and spoil it but I'm wondering what kinds of things I'm looking for to get started

It's weird bottle things up high that you shoot to lower stuff, and random "funny angle" yellow boxes you need to shoot that open doors that are in different spots. Tbh some of them are really convoluted and I just used tutorials for everything.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002



deep dish peat moss posted:

I just started playing this game recently, can someone give me a hint on how to find SHD caches in Warlords?

I can find them on the map easy enough but I'm having a hard time finding my way up to them, wherever they are. I found one where I needed to shoot down a hook then rappel up, but I'm not seeing similar hooks for other ones. I don't want to watch videos and spoil it but I'm wondering what kinds of things I'm looking for to get started

Almost all of them are along those lines - find a rope to shoot to let you open a door to drop a rope to get into a locked courtyard to shoot a power box to open a door to get the cache. Sometimes you will have to circle the block they're on and look for anything you can interact with to get 'on the path' and be aware sometimes they ask for some fairly long range shots, but just any interactable in the vicinity of the cache is probably going to get you to a new vantage point to find the next step.

One of them is underground and the key you need is on a big cleaner heavy so just be aware of that lovely possibility if you find yourself underground.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



deep dish peat moss posted:

I just started playing this game recently, can someone give me a hint on how to find SHD caches in Warlords?

I can find them on the map easy enough but I'm having a hard time finding my way up to them, wherever they are. I found one where I needed to shoot down a hook then rappel up, but I'm not seeing similar hooks for other ones. I don't want to watch videos and spoil it but I'm wondering what kinds of things I'm looking for to get started

Thereís a trick to all of them. Some of them are just finding the right climb/drop path, others are like that rope, some need you to shoot a power box to open the gate, some require you to do these things 100 meters away from the cache itself to find the path. Thereís one where you the rope to shoot is way down the alley.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Or the "shoot this one electrical box, go stand where the graffiti says "smile and wave", and smile and wave, then a door opens" bullshit from the marina in DC.

Wamdoodle
May 15, 2007

Yes, it is what it looks like!

Grimey Drawer

Psion posted:

Almost all of them are along those lines - find a rope to shoot to let you open a door to drop a rope to get into a locked courtyard to shoot a power box to open a door to get the cache. Sometimes you will have to circle the block they're on and look for anything you can interact with to get 'on the path' and be aware sometimes they ask for some fairly long range shots, but just any interactable in the vicinity of the cache is probably going to get you to a new vantage point to find the next step.

One of them is underground and the key you need is on a big cleaner heavy so just be aware of that lovely possibility if you find yourself underground.

I got that key and I swear I never got the "Open Door" prompt. I finally looked it up and got

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.


Okay, looking for yellow boxes helped me find a few, I think this is the kind of stuff I needed to know. Thank you everyone!

The only reason I don't want to just watch a video is because I don't play many shooters in general and much less ones with loot, so I'm still having fun with the novelty of just wandering around aimlessly, shooting things and collecting good ol' blues and purps et al. I figure the longer I can go without knowing exactly what I'm doing the more playtime I'll get out of this game, but I'll probably look up the last few when they start to frustrate me

(Also I skipped DC with the boost for now because I was more interested in playing in NYC and I can always go back and play the 1-30 game later )

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Wamdoodle posted:

I got that key and I swear I never got the "Open Door" prompt. I finally looked it up and got

Yeah, I was stuck on that for weeks, and the Ubi forum is full of people who didnít realise you need to shoot through the door. Everyone saying Ďthe key drops off a dudeí doesnít help the people are stuck on the other door.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



Lol tbh, I get why and how they got confused but it's also pretty hilarious. I bet the guy that designed it is pretty happy

QQmore
Jan 10, 2010


I set up a 'caster' technician build that I tweaked a little with Hardwired mask/chest/gloves/holster and the exotic backpack for a free overclocking grenade every minute. Tossed on a fox's prayer kneepads for some dps and rifle synergy. Running turret and striker drone is pretty nice for sitting back and enjoying the show. Definitely smoothed out some lvl 3 checkpoints. Lvl 4s were a shitshow earlier running a 3 red/3 blue System corrupt build. Nice thing about this set you can pretty quickly set back up with the turret by sacrificing the drone.

Blind Duke
Nov 8, 2013


The term Throwing Junk Together feels like it ignores the reasonable player early build attempt of having one blue core the rest red with damage talents that arenít Glass Cannon or some weird unintuitive thing like scoping in with a x12 scope with a shield out. None of their rolls are maxed but the difference between them and the max is what, 20% across all the pieces? Or maybe they wanted skills to not be wet noodles and changed two gear pieces to yellow cores without investing all the way. Or a player who wanted a full skill build and found all yellows only offers Skill Damage as a way to improve past that point. Hard Wired wasnít cutting it and their gloves were reworked. Heck, build defining exotics being reworked to fringe novelties was a painful slap to take.

Year 1 had its difficult bits in Heroic and Raid content. Challenging wasnít a throw anything together tier, you generally went into it with a broad plan in mind. One or two gear pieces might not be dedicated 100% to the build but thatís a tall order with how difficult it was to find something rolled perfectly and how rounding out your stats helps out a little.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


I canít give up my Tardigrade, itís a combination of not only that it regularly saves my life (and presumably helps my team in a heroic pug, idk), but itís one of the few items that so obviously does something. You hear the noise, your bar is blue, woo I cheated death! I donít notice a massive difference in how quick stuff dies with Glass Cannon, but I sure as poo poo notice how quick I die.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002



Blind Duke posted:

Year 1 had its difficult bits in Heroic and Raid content. Challenging wasnít a throw anything together tier, you generally went into it with a broad plan in mind. One or two gear pieces might not be dedicated 100% to the build but thatís a tall order with how difficult it was to find something rolled perfectly and how rounding out your stats helps out a little.

I'm not sure what the point you're getting at is, because challenging is as you describe here. They've made changes since WONY launched and we all understand the system better. You need to commit to a plan, but if someone has a build in progress with a Badger or Gila piece they intend on replacing, that will still do just fine in Challenging.

Torquemada posted:

I canít give up my Tardigrade,

I run Tardigrade during the raid and I see that blue armor bar on a lot of teammates, and I always love seeing it when I'm in a group and not running it myself. It's very good and I appreciate people using it. Yes, it's sort of silent, but you're saving lives regularly with it.

Psion fucked around with this message at 17:07 on May 19, 2020

Olds
Oct 17, 2005


I don't love Tardigrade; it only activates after its too late and I've already lost Vigilance and using a medpack anyways.


Fun thing I discovered about Space Admin: if you kill the final boss fast enough, you can get the button to end the mission even while the mobs continue to spawn.

Olds fucked around with this message at 18:26 on May 19, 2020

Psion
Dec 13, 2002



Olds posted:

I don't love Tardigrade; it only activates after its too late and I've already lost Vigilance and using a medpack anyways.


Fun thing I discovered about Space Admin: if you kill the final boss fast enough, you can get the button to end the mission even while the mobs continue to spawn.

well it's temporary armor, isn't it? The point of Tardigrade to me isn't to replace your use of an armor kit but to buy you time to get into cover and use one. I've had games where the latency was significant enough I'd proc tardigrade and have that break before I could get to safety. Obviously that's worst case but it's a safety cushion.

though I guess the other half of it is I never use Tardigrade without TP so a build which is debuffing enemies, protecting teammates, and probably dealing DOT with Pestilence is a pretty strong team support composition.

I had the space admin kill happen when I ran it earlier today. I was expecting it to be a little slower since I didn't bring demolisher firefly but no, he just died.

MunchE
Sep 7, 2000
Hot Damn, I finally bought a custom title!

Psion posted:

well it's temporary armor, isn't it? The point of Tardigrade to me isn't to replace your use of an armor kit but to buy you time to get into cover and use one. I've had games where the latency was significant enough I'd proc tardigrade and have that break before I could get to safety. Obviously that's worst case but it's a safety cushion.

though I guess the other half of it is I never use Tardigrade without TP so a build which is debuffing enemies, protecting teammates, and probably dealing DOT with Pestilence is a pretty strong team support composition.

I had the space admin kill happen when I ran it earlier today. I was expecting it to be a little slower since I didn't bring demolisher firefly but no, he just died.

I'm torn - I like that Tardigrade helps the group, but the flip is Unbreakable is a 60s cooldown free 95% armor heal that you can work into your playstyle and is permanent, albiet single player use only. But I hate being completely squish so I have Unbreakable in almost all of my builds.

I was considering Tardigrade on my Shield/Support build to replace Vanguard - but Vanguard with a 20s cooldown means I can consistently keep bonus armor on the team which is a really nice boost as well, and all I have to do to refresh it is pop my shield.

Olds
Oct 17, 2005


Psion posted:

well it's temporary armor, isn't it? The point of Tardigrade to me isn't to replace your use of an armor kit but to buy you time to get into cover and use one. I've had games where the latency was significant enough I'd proc tardigrade and have that break before I could get to safety. Obviously that's worst case but it's a safety cushion.

though I guess the other half of it is I never use Tardigrade without TP so a build which is debuffing enemies, protecting teammates, and probably dealing DOT with Pestilence is a pretty strong team support composition.

I had the space admin kill happen when I ran it earlier today. I was expecting it to be a little slower since I didn't bring demolisher firefly but no, he just died.

I'm biased because I run Perfect Glass Cannon/Vigilance with a shield most of the time, but I benefit a lot more from someone bringing Vanguard. It gives a large amount of bonus armor preemptively and provides 5 second invulnerability to my shield as well (which is not in the listed effects).

I will also say the above scenario you describe will most likely trigger your one shot protection, which gives you a second or two of relief to find cover and heal. I've had more than a few times where my shield breaks and in the next instant I was nearly dead, and the only thing keeping me alive was the OSP kicking in.

Olds fucked around with this message at 00:01 on May 20, 2020

Psion
Dec 13, 2002



i expect that 5s invulnerability to your shield absolutely tips the scales, yeah.

also I'm not entirely sure the one shot protection works as advertised, but vanguard is a really good option too. It's a little more proactive than just tossing on Tardigrade and calling it a day. If I could ever get a good vanguard piece rather than the many mediocre ones I have, I think it'd be a natural fit for my DZ true patriot setup.

Olds
Oct 17, 2005


Psion posted:

i expect that 5s invulnerability to your shield absolutely tips the scales, yeah.

also I'm not entirely sure the one shot protection works as advertised, but vanguard is a really good option too. It's a little more proactive than just tossing on Tardigrade and calling it a day. If I could ever get a good vanguard piece rather than the many mediocre ones I have, I think it'd be a natural fit for my DZ true patriot setup.

Funny story, I got my god rolled Sacrifice while looking for Pointmans at Lincoln Memorial. I was really angry that day. I really wanted that Pointman!

From what I've gleaned, OSP only works once per encounter, though I swear to have seen it proc multiple times on very long drawn out fights. Some enemy damage bypasses OSP altogether (some snipers, status effects) and it doesn't work against opposing players.

I was thinking similarily for my DZ build, but I think I might stick with Unbreakable since I don't think the shield invulnerability works in DZ.

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UnknownMercenary
Oct 31, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


Another point in Vanguard's favour is that it helps your DPS teammates that are running Vigilance. The old quirk of getting shot while having bonus armor not counting as a Vigilance debuff still exists.

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