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tweet my meat posted:Wait they're seriously reverting the m1a nerf? Why the gently caress would they do that? That thing was completely busted in pve and will continue to stifle dps build diversity as long as it exists unnerfed. If they want to stimulate PvE builds the way to do that is to either buff other skills or weapons or rebalance the NPCs at the same time as nerfing m14 to be in line with the other guns.
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Apr 22, 2020 19:27
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Cyrano4747 posted:If they want to stimulate PvE builds the way to do that is to either buff other skills or weapons or rebalance the NPCs at the same time as nerfing m14 to be in line with the other guns. They said they were planning to but I guess those buffs didn't make it in in time for the title update.
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Apr 22, 2020 19:29
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They need to do a complete balance pass to enemy damage/health, player armor/health, weapons and brands. Killing the M1A was killing the only weapon that was in line with the current TTBK and let players do content with the current busted enemy balance. The M1A will get a nerf but I hope they do a buff to everything else too.
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Apr 22, 2020 19:34
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The m1a is far from the only option that is viable for comfortably doing high level content, it's just better than every other viable option so nobody ever uses anything else. There was nothing about the m1a that was in line with anything.
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Apr 22, 2020 19:42
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Of course you can do high level content with other weapons. My most used weapon the last few weeks is a
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Apr 22, 2020 19:46
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further proof massive can't communicate with themselves, much less us, check also I recalibrated my EB to level 40 perfect rolls and ran a few missions and bounties last night and I don't intend on bringing my M1A back out. I get incredibly large crit numbers and am back using my preferred archetype. Feels good!
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Apr 22, 2020 19:54
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The npc balance still needs some changes for sure, but I think most people in the community blow it way out of proportion because they want to run all red glass cannons and be durable too. I tend to run a few armor attributes on my builds and try to make sure we have a tardigrade on the team, which keeps things pretty comfortable, even on legendary to an extent.
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Apr 22, 2020 20:05
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tweet my meat posted:The npc balance still needs some changes for sure, but I think most people in the community blow it way out of proportion because they want to run all red glass cannons and be durable too. I tend to run a few armor attributes on my builds and try to make sure we have a tardigrade on the team, which keeps things pretty comfortable, even on legendary to an extent. I dunno if it's because of wanting to run glass cannon but out of proportion absolutely. There are several people in this thread who shitpost routinely but if you ask them on discord or somewhere they have well-reasoned, logical arguments and are more than willing to discuss pros and cons and do so really well. Like, some of the most reasonable conversation I've ever seen about game balance? I think there's just something about the thread which is a magnet for venting that bad post urge
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Apr 22, 2020 20:13
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tweet my meat posted:Wait they're seriously reverting the m1a nerf? Why the gently caress would they do that? That thing was completely busted in pve and will continue to stifle dps build diversity as long as it exists unnerfed. Good lol
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Apr 22, 2020 20:14
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tweet my meat posted:The npc balance still needs some changes for sure, but I think most people in the community blow it way out of proportion because they want to run all red glass cannons and be durable too. I tend to run a few armor attributes on my builds and try to make sure we have a tardigrade on the team, which keeps things pretty comfortable, even on legendary to an extent. I think a big part of it is the divide between mostly solo and mostly group players. If you solo you need a build that can take care of itself and do content in a reasonable amount of time. Right now the red builds are popular for that although there are options. If you really only run in groups it’s a lot easier to get comfortable with a support build.
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Apr 22, 2020 20:18
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Fabricated posted:I'm not sure why they seem so dead set on making the enemies spongy to the point that for it to not feel like poo poo you have to run full glass cannon. Who loving cares if the game is easier if it encourages more build variety? Because player power fantasy is bad. Now hold up as I drop this can of mountain dew at my feet to repair a SAPI plate.
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Apr 22, 2020 20:31
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tweet my meat posted:The npc balance still needs some changes for sure, but I think most people in the community blow it way out of proportion because they want to run all red glass cannons and be durable too. I tend to run a few armor attributes on my builds and try to make sure we have a tardigrade on the team, which keeps things pretty comfortable, even on legendary to an extent. NPCs could use another, slight tune down. 5% across the board, maybe 10%. Remember, during year 1, they did 2 reductions for 10% each and it ended up being too much. We've already gotten a 10% reduction on everything below Heroic, while Heroic and Legendary have only gotten group scaling adjustments. This would help mitigate their BIS item nerfs (I'm honestly surprised this didn't happen anyway) and also make shooting your gun as a non-reds build a little more viable. When I run status effects for the team it feels like a total waste of ammo. I'm very much of the school of "I don't mind being killed fast if I can kill the enemy fast too", but they also need to figure out how to make tank builds viable without reliance on the shield. The M1A Classic was stupid and has been stupid since TU6; it only even became relevant because of how warped NPCs got with WONY, and a 20% nerf across the board is probably fine. They should bring up the M1A SOCOM and M1A CQB closer to the wherever the Classic eventually ends up.
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Apr 22, 2020 20:51
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When I play as a status build, I cringe whenever I play with non glass-cannon or focus using DPS because the mission becomes a serious slog. Mind you these are not fresh from hitting level 40 agents but lvl 300+ with gear that's near or at full damage rolls on every piece, yet they still have issues killing mobs I've blinded or foamed before the duration runs out. This is on top of fighting my own skills, especially firefly which seems to have reverted back to its old behavior of self-destructing for...reasons.
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Apr 22, 2020 20:59
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Olds posted:When I play as a status build, I cringe whenever I play with non glass-cannon or focus using DPS because the mission becomes a serious slog. Mind you these are not fresh from hitting level 40 agents but lvl 300+ with gear that's near or at full damage rolls on every piece, yet they still have issues killing mobs I've blinded or foamed before the duration runs out. This is on top of fighting my own skills, especially firefly which seems to have reverted back to its old behavior of self-destructing for...reasons. I was playing my healer build and joined with 3 randos on a challenging mission and it was a lot harder for us to get through. I tried to keep everyone topped up but it was like trying to herd cats. I don't know. If you jumped into a random mission and saw a ridiculous radius on a Hive, would you stay in it? Also there was a shield player that I guess did not have it optimised properly because he kept getting downed.
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Apr 22, 2020 21:09
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Olds posted:When I play as a status build, I cringe whenever I play with non glass-cannon or focus using DPS because the mission becomes a serious slog. Mind you these are not fresh from hitting level 40 agents but lvl 300+ with gear that's near or at full damage rolls on every piece, yet they still have issues killing mobs I've blinded or foamed before the duration runs out. This is on top of fighting my own skills, especially firefly which seems to have reverted back to its old behavior of self-destructing for...reasons. All that said, I feel you, I do know your pain.
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Apr 23, 2020 01:54
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Olds posted:When I play as a status build, I cringe whenever I play with non glass-cannon or focus using DPS because the mission becomes a serious slog. Mind you these are not fresh from hitting level 40 agents but lvl 300+ with gear that's near or at full damage rolls on every piece, yet they still have issues killing mobs I've blinded or foamed before the duration runs out. This is on top of fighting my own skills, especially firefly which seems to have reverted back to its old behavior of self-destructing for...reasons. One time I ran blinder on a Heroic mission and the dps was so bad that my CC just ended up wiping us constantly because blinded enemy AI is hosed; they all still relentlessly advance towards you, rolling/vaulting/diving/climbing over every obstacle until they completely surround you. When blind finally wore off they'd all be in flanking positions and 1 shot everyone.
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Apr 23, 2020 02:09
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ZombyDog posted:The reality is that despite "everyone" knowing about the M1A meta, there are a whole cadre of players that have never followed what's hot or watch youtubers, and run what they think works ( or if they're like me they're experimenting with off meta builds because they don't want to run the current hotness that are more likely to get nerfed as it gains popularity ). Also SHD levels should never be used as a gauge of knowledge or experience - a lot of people out there are just dumb or have the opinion that their build is awesome, it's the other players in the group who are bad. I'm for trying different stuff out, especially post-nerf. To be frank, I got bored of the M1A and was glad it got nerfed (in anticipation for for some gun buffs or enemy nerfs which did come partially). However please consider your suffering support teammates. If I blind the entire wave for 12 seconds and the DPS fails to kill the wave, everyone is miserable. I'm usually loathe to tell players how to "play" their role but frankly the environment is pushing me to it; I can't make up for our DPS deficiency by my own action when my rifle headshots top out at a piddling 300k. One of my longstanding gripes since they announced a move toward hard roles is the lack of a proper LFG function; not being able to filter for supports or tanks is very much at odds with their intended purpose of pushing "proper" team comps. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a PUG tank or support agent; it doesn't surprise me most pugs don't know how to work with a healer when they most likely haven't run into one before. In my opinion, it leads to a vicious cycle where support and tank players don't want to PUG and everyone as a result just plays DPS, which leads to most PUGs not understanding how to work with support builds. It's bad enough when I play support, I'm fighting my skills more than the enemy or when I play tank, I'm fighting the onset of carpal tunnel; it's even worse when there's one blinded red enemy left hiding in cover, and none of the DPS wants to run up to him and finish him off. Carew posted:One time I ran blinder on a Heroic mission and the dps was so bad that my CC just ended up wiping us constantly because blinded enemy AI is hosed; they all still relentlessly advance towards you, rolling/vaulting/diving/climbing over every obstacle until they completely surround you. When blind finally wore off they'd all be in flanking positions and 1 shot everyone. The first time I ran my blinder build, I blinded the entire first wave of Stranded Tanker, and someone died...while the enemies were still blinded. I also had to solo the sniper named boss at the end of Invaded Space Admin HQ as a no damage support. Not fun. Olds fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 03:31
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Tank support builds can be run pretty comfortably in a PUG, but yeah, trying to play a healer/cc build in PUGs is miserable. Honestly you kinda just have to be good at networking so you can find a good group of players that you can party up with. I love the shift to well defined roles, but it's definitely not a matchmaking system built with them in mind.
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Apr 23, 2020 04:11
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Olds posted:The first time I ran my blinder build, I blinded the entire first wave of Stranded Tanker, and someone died...while the enemies were still blinded. I also had to solo the sniper named boss at the end of Invaded Space Admin HQ as a no damage support. Not fun. Blinded tanks are incredibly buggy and are still capable of unloading on people with 100% accuracy. Minigun tanks will single wield their massive gun and mow everyone down while the gun model is pointing towards the ground and grenade launcher tanks will spam grenades nonstop.
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Apr 23, 2020 04:26
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tbh if cM1A damage nerf wasn't so much (considering its RPM) as well as npc being annoying at times (suppressed/shotgun accuracy, flame going through cover and far, etc) was addressed, it wouldn't have been bad. No idea why some players would think agents have to be terminators, but the balance isn't there either.
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Apr 23, 2020 04:44
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tweet my meat posted:Tank support builds can be run pretty comfortably in a PUG, but yeah, trying to play a healer/cc build in PUGs is miserable. Honestly you kinda just have to be good at networking so you can find a good group of players that you can party up with. When I PUG as a tank, more often than not, my patience (and my hand) breaks before my shield does. I'm getting too old to be clicking this much! Carew posted:Blinded tanks are incredibly buggy and are still capable of unloading on people with 100% accuracy. Minigun tanks will single wield their massive gun and mow everyone down while the gun model is pointing towards the ground and grenade launcher tanks will spam grenades nonstop. While that didn't happen in this case (not sure what killed him, maybe one enemy deep inside I didn't blind perhaps? still stupid he died), I have noticed this blinded heavy behavior happening with increased frequency. Just add it to the pile of never ending annoyances that comes with the joy of playing a status build unfortunately.
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Apr 23, 2020 04:46
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New changes are all good, but I wish Aces and Eights would drop at some point.
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Apr 23, 2020 05:14
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On my wishlist of things for this game is a proper ping system. There's nothing quite like the frustration of tanking a Cleaner tank while 3 DPS players wail away fruitlessly at him, and the whole time I'm screaming in my head "SHOOT THE SMALL TANK ON THE BACK" only to have to pop the drat thing myself because I couldn't communicate the thought to my team telepathically. In case you are one of those DPS players: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7wDdKNuKcI Olds fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 13:54
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Once I discovered this game had text to speech it has been great. I just wish more people used the discord voice channels.
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Apr 23, 2020 14:50
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I've been tooling around with the reworked gear 2.0 Aces and 8's set now that I don't have to run the raid for a chestpiece or backpack and my biggest takeaway from my experiments is that gear 1.0 Aces and 8's was a really fun gearset.
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Apr 23, 2020 16:24
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90 minute maintenance tomorrow M1A Classic/Baker's Dozen Rifle Rebalance - Reverted 40% damage reduction. - 20% damage reduction in PvP Fixed an issue with players not being able to attack generators and blocking mission progression. Fixed an issue causing all Turret skill variants to fail on thrown deployment with the Cool Skills Directive activated.
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Apr 23, 2020 17:40
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I'm just finishing up DC, and haven't seen an M1A drop since lvl 22. So I rock a Mark 17, which at least has a decent ammo capacity.
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Apr 23, 2020 17:56
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At that level you don’t really need to worry about anything in the patch notes.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:08
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mllaneza posted:I'm just finishing up DC, and haven't seen an M1A drop since lvl 22. So I rock a Mark 17, which at least has a decent ammo capacity. Love the bakers dozen, when in cover only bullets that hit a target are consumed. Can run a mission and use maybe 80-100 bullets haha
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Apr 23, 2020 18:09
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Deacon91 posted:Love the bakers dozen, when in cover only bullets that hit a target are consumed. Can run a mission and use maybe 80-100 bullets haha Yeah, it’s handy for the limited ammo directive.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:28
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The way CC works is definitely weird and hosed up. Disorient/Riot Foam are the only CC that feel like they work right. Enemies flinch then stagger slowly in a random direction for disorient, and foam locks them in place. Blind feels like all it does is prevent enemies from using skills, and their movement AI moves like normal. So a dude will get blinded and after the initial flinch will literally just move like they aren't blinded and their AI is working normally except they don't use skills or shoot (generally). You get that poo poo someone mentioned where you'll blind a full group of guys and they'll just run around vaulting over everything to flank your group while screaming that they can't see. The AI also behaves hilariously when you can abuse its ninja-like ability to instantly dodge out of grenades/CC/AOEs. If you blanket all available cover in high-tier corrosive spam you can get NPCS to literally spend the entire time rolling from corrosive cloud to corrosive cloud. I think each CC should invoke more distinct/specific AI behavior. Foam is just actual hard CC on a timer, disorient makes them stagger in a random direction slowly (being easy to hit, since disorient does no damage itself), fire makes them run in a random direction QUICKLY (thus making them a bit harder to hit since you're getting the benefit of it doing damage too), and I think Blind should do something like force the AI to retreat relative to the position of you and your group. If you're going to have multiple kinds of CC in a game they probably should have different strategic uses too instead of just different durations/animations and a DOT maybe. Use blinds to push back aggressive enemies like heavies/rogue agents/rushers, fire to scatter enemies out of cover, disorient to slow big groups, foam to just turn individual or tightly clumped enemies into bullet backstops temporarily, etc. Fabricated fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 19:47
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Here is a dumb question... Why not have PVP use entirely different gear with different balance? Like you enter the airlock, and swap out your clean gear for dirty gear only for use in the DZ.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:49
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Malcolm Excellent posted:Here is a dumb question... Why not have PVP use entirely different gear with different balance? Like you enter the airlock, and swap out your clean gear for dirty gear only for use in the DZ. probably, and I'm talking out of my rear end here, it takes more effort and money to come up with a different set of art assets and a different PVP balance team than it does to use the same assets to just adjust the numbers.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:56
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They have a lot of PVP-specific balance in place already, and are much better at using PVP-specific balance changes than they were in Division 1 but, obviously, still need some work there also the idea of forcing someone to play PVP to even get PVP gear is a total non-starter for any loot game, much less this one. and then how do you handle mixed pvp/pve zones? nah, that's not worth it better for them to concentrate on same gear, separate balance and just be more careful with pushing changes to the master branch, imo
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Apr 23, 2020 21:03
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Wamdoodle posted:probably, and I'm talking out of my rear end here, it takes more effort and money to come up with a different set of art assets and a different PVP balance team than it does to use the same assets to just adjust the numbers. I was thinking more like D1 survival, same assets, they are just in the Dark Zone sandbox, and cannot be used outside of it. I hear what you're saying, even if you were being a sassy butt about it.
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Apr 23, 2020 22:01
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The way I see it the best way to handle PVP from the beginning, as in Division 1, would have been to utilize the “contamination” gimmick to build a system that has players select pre-built armor pieces and weapons that they can mix and match freely but are completely separate from PVE gear. Anything you pull from the DZ would also be for PVE only. That way the developers are basically entirely in control of what can be used as PVP gear. You could throw in a side-grade system for attributes or talents or whatever. Does it make much sense that gear inside the DZ can be brought out and be turned into PVE gear but you can’t bring PVE gear in? No, but it’s a video game. That said an additional twist could be that you actually could bring in higher power PVE gear but as soon as you did it becomes PVP only and if you die in your PVE-turned-PVP gear it’s gone forever. Or it’s dropped to be extracted like regular loot but marked special loot and then those that killed you, which might be people from different groups, can fight over it.
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Apr 23, 2020 22:50
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Kibayasu posted:The way I see it the best way to handle PVP from the beginning, as in Division 1, would have been to utilize the “contamination” gimmick to build a system that has players select pre-built armor pieces and weapons that they can mix and match freely but are completely separate from PVE gear. Anything you pull from the DZ would also be for PVE only. That way the developers are basically entirely in control of what can be used as PVP gear. You could throw in a side-grade system for attributes or talents or whatever. Wow. You put some actual thought into this. Obviously you don't understand AAA game development.
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Apr 23, 2020 23:31
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Kibayasu posted:The way I see it the best way to handle PVP from the beginning, as in Division 1, would have been to utilize the “contamination” gimmick to build a system that has players select pre-built armor pieces and weapons that they can mix and match freely but are completely separate from PVE gear. Anything you pull from the DZ would also be for PVE only. That way the developers are basically entirely in control of what can be used as PVP gear. You could throw in a side-grade system for attributes or talents or whatever. This is what I was kinda thinking, but couldn't properly articulate. Thanks!
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Apr 24, 2020 00:16
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Malcolm Excellent posted:I was thinking more like D1 survival, same assets, they are just in the Dark Zone sandbox, and cannot be used outside of it. I hear what you're saying, even if you were being a sassy butt about it. I actually wasn't but go on. PS: NOW I'm being a sassy butt
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Apr 24, 2020 01:45
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I found this just in time for the M1A nerf   Hopefully they actually do revert it Frustrated posted:The new notes might as well read Classic M1A removed from game. It feels like a well rolled Bulletking gunner build might be one of the better red builds now. I was using heal hive/turret for a long time but after reading this I gave striker drone/turret a try and it works a lot better. I can't be so casual about taking damage but the added DPS from the drone at +6 skill is really good, plus it draws a lot of fire away from me so I take less damage to begin with.
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