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hakimashou
Jul 15, 2002

"Success consists of going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."

John Stamos

Upset Trowel

idiotsavant posted:

Just make backpacks 1:1 for space held/space displaced, it would affect all of what, two backpacks? I really don't want to deal with the tedious crap of buying a backpack every time I die or having to empty/fill poo poo. Its a stupid, meaningless change for stupid, meaningless reasons

you're playing the wrong game then buddy

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fennesz
Dec 29, 2008



idiotsavant posted:

Just make backpacks 1:1 for space held/space displaced, it would affect all of what, two backpacks? I really don't want to deal with the tedious crap of buying a backpack every time I die or having to empty/fill poo poo. Its a stupid, meaningless change for stupid, meaningless reasons

I totally agree. I think they just missed the boat on fixing the few backpacks it affects at the start of the wipe and made this change instead. I would expect it to get reverted sometime in the future but who loving knows at this point.

ChesterJT
Dec 28, 2003

please trigger warning any insults to billionaires or I swear I will tell you numbnuts about how progress in society REALLY gets done


Umbreon posted:

We don't need people blindly attacking Nikita either, it's just as ignorant and stupid. You can still do exactly as you described, this change only affects backpacks that are bigger on the inside than they are on the outside and thus can be infinitely stacked for as much storage as your carrying capacity can hold. You can still find that extra scav backpack in raid and stack it on your current one for the free backpack.

Its not blind, my reasons are clear. Its lazy. Just because the arbitrary size line they've drawn in sand doesn't affect my example doesn't mean it should make sense. Again, your narrow viewpoint always boils down to "it doesn't affect me so there's no problem".

fennesz posted:

I do think it's funny the people most butt hurt about this change, being you and Dicks, clearly don't know what you're talking about.

What part of the words multiple people are saying about how lazy this move is don't you understand? We know nikita says it was an anti-rmt move. No one here fails to get that. What we fail to get is how he keeps coming up with such stupid solutions. See THICC case.

ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Jun 27, 2020

1001 Arabian dicks
Sep 15, 2013

I am a shit poster who can't type. I contribute nothing of value to this or any other thread. Reading anything I post is pointless. I am too stupid to understand when I am wrong. Ignore me for your own sake.
100% WRONG -->

Umbreon posted:

Coincidentally neither one of those had millions of rubles in rare loot that was all found in raid when you killed them. Maybe you should learn how RMTing works.

how do you figure having a bunch of rare loot that's FiR means you're RMTing?

you do know you can transfer as many roubles as you want to pretty much anyone in game, right?

Umbreon
May 21, 2011


1001 Arabian dicks posted:

how do you figure having a bunch of rare loot that's FiR means you're RMTing?

you do know you can transfer as many roubles as you want to pretty much anyone in game, right?

When the inventory is coincidentally filled with nothing but rare loot that no single player has any business having that much of in a single match, I'm going to say yes that's RMT. I'm talking dozens and dozens of things like Dr lupo's or 1GPhones and nothing else, all found in that raid (because it wouldn't have the tag if they brought it in with them).

Do you explain what exactly you mean by transferring rubles to pretty much anyone anytime you want, because the recent flea market fee changes make that very difficult, especially now that they adjusted it so that if you try to price anything too low that also makes massive fees (making RMT transfers using barters or inappropriately priced junk no longer worth it)



ChesterJT posted:

Its not blind, my reasons are clear. Its lazy. Just because the arbitrary size line they've drawn in sand doesn't affect my example doesn't mean it should make sense. Again, your narrow viewpoint always boils down to "it doesn't affect me so there's no problem".


What part of the words multiple people are saying about how lazy this move is don't you understand? We know nikita says it was an anti-rmt move. No one here fails to get that. What we fail to get is how he keeps coming up with such stupid solutions. See THICC case.

The arbitrary size line they drew in the sand affects a very tiny amount of people in exchange for a noticeable impact against real money traders who abused that mechanic. Consider expanding your viewpoint to cover a larger picture than just that particular style of play.

Umbreon fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jun 27, 2020

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000


lmao please to explain how having dozens and dozens of rare tagged FIR items stacked in dozens and dozens of nested backpacks is an issue caused by backpack sizing

Umbreon
May 21, 2011


idiotsavant posted:

lmao please to explain how having dozens and dozens of rare tagged FIR items stacked in dozens and dozens of nested backpacks is an issue caused by backpack sizing

I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but the only way that's possible is because the larger backpacks are bigger on the inside than outside, creating infinite free space when stacking them and making that possible in the first place. By not allowing the larger backpacks to stack in raid, you can still let people stack backpacks, but you prevent anybody from creating infinite space (in raid) by doing so. It's an issue literally only possible because of backpack sizing, I don't understand why you keep trying to attack this so much.

hakimashou
Jul 15, 2002

"Success consists of going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."

John Stamos

Upset Trowel

Umbreon posted:

I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but the only way that's possible is because the larger backpacks are bigger on the inside than outside, creating infinite free space when stacking them and making that possible in the first place. By not allowing the larger backpacks to stack in raid, you can still let people stack backpacks, but you prevent anybody from creating infinite space (in raid) by doing so. It's an issue literally only possible because of backpack sizing, I don't understand why you keep trying to attack this so much.

jesus

Orv
May 4, 2011


We should just close this loving thread.

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000


Umbreon posted:

I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but the only way that's possible is because the larger backpacks are bigger on the inside than outside, creating infinite free space when stacking them and making that possible in the first place. By not allowing the larger backpacks to stack in raid, you can still let people stack backpacks, but you prevent anybody from creating infinite space (in raid) by doing so. It's an issue literally only possible because of backpack sizing, I don't understand why you keep trying to attack this so much.

I'm not sure how to dumb this down enough. I understand the infinite space stacking thing. Everyone understands the infinite space stacking thing. May I gently point out to you, though, that the issue is perhaps not with infinite space stacks (which is very easily corrected btw) but more with people somehow finding infinite rare FIR tagged items to fill their infinite spaces so as to trade millions of rubles

Hazdoc
Nov 8, 2012

Muscovy Ducks are a large tropical breed, famous for their lean and extremely flavorful meat.

Hazduck!

~SMcD

Orv posted:

We should just close this loving thread.

Umbreon
May 21, 2011


idiotsavant posted:

I'm not sure how to dumb this down enough. I understand the infinite space stacking thing. Everyone understands the infinite space stacking thing. May I gently point out to you, though, that the issue is perhaps not with infinite space stacks (which is very easily corrected btw) but more with people somehow finding infinite rare FIR tagged items to fill their infinite spaces so as to trade millions of rubles

Yes, that is a separate issue that they are also addressing as best as they can. Radar's been disabled, but loot radars still work because loot doesn't change position until somebody grabs it, which lets hackers know exactly where all the best loot is on the map and immediately speed hack over to it and grab it before anybody else can.

I was posting under the assumption that you are able to tell the difference between two separate issues that need separate solutions, and that both are clearly being worked on separately.




Relax dude, quit being over dramatic and just try to post like a mature adult.

Phobeste
Apr 9, 2006

never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man

Grimey Drawer

These last couple pages are packing in new good thread titles like they’re stacked in blackjacks

ChesterJT
Dec 28, 2003

please trigger warning any insults to billionaires or I swear I will tell you numbnuts about how progress in society REALLY gets done


Umbreon posted:

The arbitrary size line they drew in the sand affects a very tiny amount of people in exchange for a noticeable impact against real money traders who abused that mechanic. Consider expanding your viewpoint to cover a larger picture than just that particular style of play.

Oh you're right, cheaters/rmt have been foiled by this brilliant design change. They're walking down the streets of tarkov now kicking cans remembering the good old days. I guess Nikita was right all along.

Umbreon
May 21, 2011


ChesterJT posted:

Oh you're right, cheaters/rmt have been foiled by this brilliant design change. They're walking down the streets of tarkov now kicking cans remembering the good old days. I guess Nikita was right all along.

Are you for real going with the "if it doesn't instantly evaporate the whole problem, it clearly doesn't work and we shouldn't do it at all" line of logic?

animist
Aug 28, 2018

yeet



i feel like people who are mad they're not having fun have not yet internalized the slav mindset

ChesterJT
Dec 28, 2003

please trigger warning any insults to billionaires or I swear I will tell you numbnuts about how progress in society REALLY gets done


Umbreon posted:

Are you for real going with the "if it doesn't instantly evaporate the whole problem, it clearly doesn't work and we shouldn't do it at all" line of logic?

For real, what I'm going with is this barely touches the problem and is pointless. Its a tiny bandaid on a trauma victim. I guess you have more faith in Nikita, its definitely well earned.

Umbreon
May 21, 2011


ChesterJT posted:

For real, what I'm going with is this barely touches the problem and is pointless. Its a tiny bandaid on a trauma victim. I guess you have more faith in Nikita, its definitely well earned.

By what measure do you feel this barely touches the problem? It is very clearly a common RMT method that is now no longer an option and the solution doesn't bother the average player. It is one of many changes they are doing, by itself it's not going to fix everything, but it does demonstratively help and is meant to be paired with their other changes that they've been doing.

ChesterJT
Dec 28, 2003

please trigger warning any insults to billionaires or I swear I will tell you numbnuts about how progress in society REALLY gets done


Umbreon posted:

By what measure do you feel this barely touches the problem? It is very clearly a common RMT method that is now no longer an option and the solution doesn't bother the average player. It is one of many changes they are doing, by itself it's not going to fix everything, but it does demonstratively help and is meant to be paired with their other changes that they've been doing.

Did limiting the amount of cash you can carry or give to a player in raid slow down rmt? Did the FiR status on items slow down rmt? Did the new flea market changes with FiR slow down rmt? Is this backpack change going to slow down rmt? The answer to all of these is no. Since Nikita would never give out actual stats other than "we ban thousands of cheaters every month" no one really knows for sure how much if at all his amazing fixes have affected the game. Last I saw you can go to a number of websites and buy roubles, buy items, or pay for powerleveling/guides.

You don't speak for the player base. I'm an average player, it bothers me. All of these lazy inneffectual changes bother me. I can't say it any clearer. You can't say with good faith it "does demonstratively help" because you have no idea how many there were before and how many there are after. Diverting a runaway train from one station to another isn't helping, you just moved the problem somewhere else.

ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jun 29, 2020

Cage Kicker
Feb 20, 2009

2nd Place at the Waupaca County Cuddle-Fest, again

Lipstick Apathy

Tarkov is a game about shoot mans, you can always go play stock market simulator if you don't like flea market changes

Umbreon
May 21, 2011


ChesterJT posted:

Did limiting the amount of cash you can carry or give to a player in raid slow down rmt? Did the FiR status on items slow down rmt? Did the new flea market changes with FiR slow down rmt? Is this backpack change going to slow down rmt? The answer to all of these is no. Since Nikita would never give out actual stats other than "we ban thousands of cheaters every month" no one really knows for sure how much if at all his amazing fixes have affected the game. Last I saw you can go to a number of websites and buy roubles, buy items, or pay for powerleveling/guides.

You don't speak for the player base. I'm an average player, it bothers me. All of these lazy inneffectual changes bother me. I can't say it any clearer. You can't say with good faith it "does demonstratively help" because you have no idea how many there were before and how many there are after. Diverting a runaway train from one station to another isn't helping, you just moved the problem somewhere else.


Save for the FIR status change (because that wasn't for RMT), the answer to all those questions is yes, by definition. If you disable a known method of RMT, you by definition slow RMTing down by forcing them to find and switch to newer, less efficient methods. When the flea market was introduced, buying rubles was as simple as listing some crackers for 20 million rubles and that was that. Flea market changes have been forcing RMTers to go into raids with giant stacks of backpacks filled with millions of rubles of loot, and successfully extract their buyer without dying just to get their rubles to them.

You cannot compare that to listing some crackers on the flea market and instantly receiving 20 million rubles and tell me with a straight face that RMTing, as a whole, has not been significantly slowed down. Now the RMTers don't even have that method either. Sure, they'll find another way, but it won't be as fast as the one they just lost, both for the buyer and the seller.

I CAN say in good faith that the changes have demonstratively helped slow down RMTers, unlike you who for whatever reason keeps conflating "RMT still exists" with "RMT hasn't been slowed by all these changes", and also don't know anything about the actual numbers of RMTers to be making the claim that they have been slowed down or not.

JoltSpree
Jul 19, 2012



So how much money do the two of you get from RMTing and how badly did it get affected by this patch?

Phobeste
Apr 9, 2006

never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man

Grimey Drawer

I know what it means but in my head I shall always parse "RMT" as "real mice titties", and it's on purpose, and I'll never stop

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


Phobeste posted:

I know what it means but in my head I shall always parse "RMT" as "real mice titties", and it's on purpose, and I'll never stop

Quest to find 10 real mice tities for Jaeger, they're random drops in the woods and only spawn as loose items

Phobeste
Apr 9, 2006

never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man

Grimey Drawer

Since they're field mice titties they only spawn in the big coverless areas near scav house and on the right(?) side of the map near factory gate. Also they sleep at night so you have to do it during the day. They must be found in raid.

twig1919
Nov 1, 2011
I am an inconsiderate moron whose only method of discourse is idiotic personal attacks.


I did notice that the price of RMT went up a ton. I yin it's at 10x the price as last wipe. The harder it is then the higher the price which means an overall smaller RMT market.

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009




Fun Shoe

There's a new extract on reserve in the tunnels going to the dome. There's also new underground stuff between king and black pawn which has the power switch for the new extract.

ThePineapple
Oct 19, 2009


It seems like raiders can spawn in the new underground area too, which I'm looking forward to! I"m guessing there'll be a ton of people going down there now though.

Although it might be interesting. I always felt like the reserve underground tunnel areas would be cool to have firefights in, but it was rare to see others down there.

ChesterJT
Dec 28, 2003

please trigger warning any insults to billionaires or I swear I will tell you numbnuts about how progress in society REALLY gets done


Cage Kicker posted:

Tarkov is a game about shoot mans, you can always go play stock market simulator if you don't like flea market changes

You must not have loaded the game up yet. The game is also about stat/character building, hideout building, resource management, buying/selling items, questing, etc. They're all parts to the whole. I don't want to do just one part, I want to do them all.

Another brilliant mind telling people how to play the game they paid for.

ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jun 30, 2020

Oysters Autobio
Mar 13, 2017


Oh god, please stop whining that you can't buy-low sell-high your stupid poo poo on flea, no one cares that it's yOuR pLaYsTyLe, it was dumb to begin with that people were only playing stock market simulator and never even entered raids

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


Replace FIR with Bought Off Flea, don't let people sell BOF on the Flea. That way I can still get my cheap gear and nobody can be a flipping baron.

I have thought this idea through for as long as it took me to make this post.

ThePineapple
Oct 19, 2009


Apparently vendor prices for a bunch of items have been altered, and traders have been shifted around in terms of who's best to sell stuff to. Notably,
- Bitcoins now sell for 97k to therapist, 106k to mechanic
- Fuel conditioner nerfed to 30k
- Magazine box nerf, and strangely crackers sell for a ton to therapist.
Reddit thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Escapefrom...e_been_altered/

Personally, I'm just sad. My bitcoin farm construction literally just completed today, and I had been saving up / buying graphics cards for a bit.

Mesadoram
Nov 4, 2009

Serious Business


ThePineapple posted:

Apparently vendor prices for a bunch of items have been altered, and traders have been shifted around in terms of who's best to sell stuff to. Notably,
- Bitcoins now sell for 97k to therapist, 106k to mechanic
- Fuel conditioner nerfed to 30k
- Magazine box nerf, and strangely crackers sell for a ton to therapist.
Reddit thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Escapefrom...e_been_altered/

Personally, I'm just sad. My bitcoin farm construction literally just completed today, and I had been saving up / buying graphics cards for a bit.

How much were the bitcoins originally selling for?

ThePineapple
Oct 19, 2009


145k or so. Not a huge cut, but I'm guessing it's enough to make the bitcoin farm take a decent bit longer to pay off. At the same time, I would guess that the mag case nerf means that you can't resell or craft empty blue fuel cans to recover as much money as you could before, so fuel will overall be more expensive.

ChesterJT
Dec 28, 2003

please trigger warning any insults to billionaires or I swear I will tell you numbnuts about how progress in society REALLY gets done


Oysters Autobio posted:

it was dumb to begin with that people were only playing stock market simulator and never even entered raids

No one was doing that. There's enough broken with the game you don't need to make things up to whine about.

Did anyone else see a message briefly pop up bottom right after this last update about an air filter or gas mask? I had heard they were going to be doing something "soon" with the air filtration in the hideout but I didn't notice anything had changed yet.

ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jul 1, 2020

ThePineapple
Oct 19, 2009


ChesterJT posted:

No one was doing that. There's enough broken with the game you don't need to make things up to whine about.

I don't have strong opinions here but there was literally someone in the last thread who was doing exactly that. Ambiare or something, I think it was.

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000


There are scads of players in EVE who’ve never played anything other than space station simulator. If you actually have a robust, fleshed out player-driven market why is that a bad thing?

I mean it’s currently a bad thing because the Tarkov economy was built and is being run by a couple of fourth-graders who just took their first class on government, but this discussion is all hypotheticals anyways.

ShowTime
Mar 28, 2005

Expecto Patronum! Expelliarmus! Abracadabra! Argh, none of these are working.
Oh well, fall back plan.
ROOOAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR!


Because EVE was designed with that play style in mind. Tarkov was designed as a realistic military combat simulator first person shooter. But only like 10% of the playerbase plays like that. The others play it is a high risk/high reward first person shooter, except it sounds like the risk is way higher than reward right now, which is creating a play style that many don't enjoy and isn't sustainable. But things have changed so much since the wipe, that's just what i've read.

I'm honestly just very glad i'm not playing during this time, because it really doesn't sound fun unless you are in the top 5% of the players who are really good at the game or put in enough hours to compensate for that skill gap. If you are good at the game or have the time to commit to it, you are able to afford the playstyle people are used to before the wipe. Sounds like all the changed.

I kind of get the bitcoin change, because I was always under the impression the bitcoin rate was always meant to be variable and related to the actual bitcoin market (or something similar). It still sucks. It's basically 2/3 of it's value now.

Bucnasti
Aug 14, 2012

Listen to him, men. He's just crazy enough to do it!


There were a ton of people exclusively playing the market and not actually entering raids during the last wipe. At least one guy in the thread had amassed tens of millions of rubles without ever playing his PMC.
I for one spent the last weeks before the wipe just flipping ammo from the merchants and made ~1M rubles each day. I don't miss that at all, I think the FIR change was one of the best things they could have done for the game. I just think they need to adjust/improve the tasks to work with it a lot better.

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E-Tank
Aug 4, 2011


Honestly the reason I dropped from playing is because I think the out of raid healing is the dumbest possible thing ever.

Like seriously, games like this live and die on how fast you can get back out, and if you're bad like me, your scav run ended basically five seconds after it started, and your PMC run didn't last much longer either. Congratulations, now you can either wait an agonizingly slow time or burn medical supplies in order to play again, medical supplies you need in raid in case you get injured.

Add to that that most bullets suck unless you're going strictly Mosin Nagants, which are still expensive for newbies, and if you're closer than 5 meters that bolt action is going to be the death of you, it just got too frustrating to bother with.

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